TR Artillery Systems & Projects

Stuka

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Looking at the size values given above of this engine, do you think it will fit in to the engine compartment of Altay?

883 Ka-501 Dimensions: 1488 x 972 x 742 mm Weight: 1800kg
Do. DV27K Dimensions: 1828 x 1060 x 1126 mm Weight: 2578kg
AVDS-1790 Dimensions: 1905 x 1778 x 1143 mm Weight: 2300kg

AVDS 1790 + Allison X1100 should to the job.

> Allison was also at IDEF21 with their new X1100 Series.


"the X1100™-5A4 (the transmission for the Next Generation T-155 Self Propelled Firtina Howitzer (Firtina II) "

The X1100-5A4 (Firtina I uses X1100-5A3 with up to 63.5 Tons and 1500HP) I couldnt find anything on the new 5A4 but should be an upgrade.
I Trust Allison much more than S&T Dynamics which weren't chosen by anyone, while Allison X1100 series powers 72 Ton Abrams.

That would increase Commonality as well.
 

Stuka

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I saw tweet saying we had signed a deal on several engines for testing purpose. Do we get a timeline from BMC on when they’ll showcase the first Altay with the new engine ?

Is it realistic to build a new from ground up or will they cannibalize existing Altay for testing purpose ?

given RTE wants Altay in 2023

Honestly This is simply a MoU which isn't the first time signed and does not carry much weight.

At IDEF19 they signed a MoU with CAT UK for Firtina II Engines.


And in March 2020 it was known another western source will be picked, which we now know is L3 AVDS 1790.


So 2.5 Years after MoU Serial Production still hasn't started.



About ALTAY there are 5 Produced Hulls.

1 MTR (Mobility Test Preliminary Prototype)
1 FTR (Fire Test Preliminary Prototype)
1 BH&T (Ballistic Hull and Tower Prototype)
2 Turkish Main Battle Tank Prototypes (PV1 and PV2)

>The PV2 prototype was converted by BMC personnel to the T1 Demonstrator after a 2-month study at the 1st Main Maintenance Factory Directorate and was exhibited at the BMC stand during the IDEF '19 Fair

>The FTR Porotype's Turret was Integrated on "LEOTAY" Leopard 2A4.

During the System Qualification and Acceptance Tests under ALTAY MBT Project Phase-I, 10,000 km Durability and Mobility Tests were carried out with the PV1 prototype in various terrain and season/weather conditions. During the tests, the MTR and FTR pre-prototypes and the PV1 and PV2 prototypes covered approximately 26,000 km in total.

"The Army Abrams Main Battle Tank has an engineering-based service life of 9600 KM"

>
Yeah. I Guess the Prototypes are done.
 

Kartal1

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Breach loaded mortar is ideal for land vehicles.
İ think it has direct fire capability.
Laser distance measuring, optics... Great.
Really very interesting concept. I think such a concept could come handy for the special forces. It could be mounted to a Toyota and other than the indirect fire support capability it can also serve a role comparable to the one of the recoilless rifle for example an SPG-9 of which the effective firing range is 800m.
 
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Really very interesting concept. I think such a concept could come handy for the special forces. It could be mounted to a Toyota and other than the indirect fire support capability it can also serve a role comparable to the one of the recoilless rifle for example an SPG-9 of which the effective firing range is 800m.
American navy ships used it breach loaded mortars in Vietnam.
"coast guard piggyback"
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Stuka

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MoD Hulusi Akar adressed the Parlament.

He announced that in 2021 a initial batch of T-155 Firtina II SPH have been built.

The Article with additional Info.

"Record production at the Tank Pallet Factory! 6 Storm howitzers were produced at the factory this year."

> Why do they announce 6 Firtina II like its a record ?


If we look at the previous statements by a MoD Rep. the production of 6 SPHs were expected.

Article from 04/2021


Muhsin Dere, Deputy Minister of National Defense, shared the latest situation in the Firtina II project.

"The production of 3 New Generation Storm Howitzers was completed in December 2020, and it is anticipated that 3 more will be completed by June 2021."

"We plan to include 155 Self-Propelled Storm Howitzer into the inventory between 2022 and 2027"

I think its very important to read carefully because these now 6 were BUILT and not put into Service!
I assume the Low rate initial Production of 6 SPH were done with MTU 881 Ka-500 water-cooled diesel developing 1,000 hp coupled to an Allison X-1100-5A3
like the Previous ones in order to decrease pressure by the public.

But the real Serial Production with actual Transfer of Howitzer to the Land Forces will be done in mid 2022 until 2027 with a diffrent Engine and updated Allison X-1100-5A4


The new Engine was announced in 19.03.2020 by Yusuf Akbaba


"The engine that will power FIRTINA will be supplied from a western country excluding Germany and Ukraine."

in 18.08.2021

at IDEF21 it was announced to be L3Harris with AVDS1790.


> The Timeframes and Context seem logical.
So the Decision of Integrating the 1790 Engine was done before BMC POWER UTKU Engine was Ignited for the first time.

Note: The AVDS 1790-9A has gross Power Output of 1200HP but a Net Power Output of 1000HP like the MTU or UTKU
 
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TheInsider

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The price is 7 millions per Fırtına II howitzers. Note that the price of Fırtına I was 4.2 million while the TL dollar ratio was much lower. BMC robbed us with Fırtına II.
 

what

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The price is 7 millions per Fırtına II howitzers. Note that the price of Fırtına I was 4.2 million while the TL dollar ratio was much lower. BMC robbed us with Fırtına II.

Just for comparison, did some quick research:

12 German PzH 2000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerhaubitze_2000) cost Croatia 2015 (https://www.czdefence.com/article/new-self-propelled-howitzers-for-acr-what-would-be-the-cheapest) around 3.5m € per piece. I know that PzH is a older design, but then they pay German labor costs etc.
 

Stimpy75

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well mr they paid 1.89 billion euro for 62 Leo's and 24 Pzh2000, do your own math
 

Saithan

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The price is 7 millions per Fırtına II howitzers. Note that the price of Fırtına I was 4.2 million while the TL dollar ratio was much lower. BMC robbed us with Fırtına II.
Is the price of Firtina-2 agreed in USD/Euro ? Even though BMC is a Turkish company ?

Is it because it's partnered with Qatar ? Or is it because the engine is delivered from abroad L3 Harris ?
 

TheInsider

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I would rather pay 420 million and have 100 Fırtına-Is than paying 420 million and having 60 Fırtına-IIs increase in capability doesn't justify the increase in price. Fırtına-II is basically an upgrade of Fırtına-Is. We should have upgraded existing Fırtınas than paying %60+ more.
 

amlakuyalew

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Hey members how are now I want your help in 122mm guided rocket GNC part and autopilot that you use if possible
 

Fighter_35

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well mr they paid 1.89 billion euro for 62 Leo's and 24 Pzh2000, do your own math
could you provide a cost of leo2 a7 not a mentioned deals that could include many things with tank itself?? I havent seen any official figure more than 8-10 million usd!!
 

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