TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,191
Reactions
22 18,829
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
The gendarme (military police) is now part of the EGM (police force), was part of the army before.

So yes police force is responsible for fights (against terrorism) inside Turkey while army is responsible for fights outside Turkey.

So attack helicopters for police force is not so surprising, especially when counting that we have a terror problem since 40 years. Police force has also armed drones.

I just want to point out we had celik kuvvet. Before we had a professional army we had conscripts and we all know how the 90’s were. So Tansus celik kuvvet was arming police to fight pkk even in the mountains. That all went away after military coup against Erbakan.

So it’s nothing new, and with the new law where you can borrow from defence force etc I do not see the point of giving Atak to police, sorry it just doean’t make sense. Give them blackhawk with gun emplacement. But dedicated combat helicopter...
 

Nutuk

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
990
Reactions
8 3,544
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Well my opinion is if we send our forces to fight the PKK that already had shot down attack helicopters of ours, than we have to give our troops the best materials to keep them safe and fight.

The attack helicopter has a full combat suite with full self defense suite. IMO if the police has to fight the PKK they need these combat helicopters as well.

Let us be aware that we do not have a Switzerland without terrorist organizations, we have two neighboring countries that are devastated and terror organizations are armed to the teeth in this neighborhood (moreover the Americans granted them 40 thousand trucks of weapons). So, do we need to equip our police like English bobbies only with a stick?
 

Test7

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
4,787
Reactions
18 19,933
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Turkey
I hope it is at the service of the gendarmerie in free times. Becasue, Nobody wants the million dollar killing machine to wait in the hangar for the police to operate.
 
A

adenl

Guest
I stated it multiple times, these helicopters in police hands are because of the lessons learned in July '16. There is no police force in the world that operates dedicated attack helicopters but Turkey. Turkey is a first in the world and even attack helicopters for its paramilitary force is quite unique or also a first. This diversification of heavy firepower is not because of some cumbersome bureaucracy that would prevent one state agency from making use of it by lending it from another agency, but IMO because of the coup.

We have even witnessed that the forestry service is operating the TB2. I wouldn't be surprised if these serve a secondary (or covert primary) role in suppressing a military coup, should one happen.

The stated reasons by others that these ATAKs in police hands will be used against PKK is laughable. The TSK is more than capable to handle that and doesn't need another agency actively involved in its rotary wing actions.

Other roles I can ascribe to these police ATAKs are armed escort for high value people during high threat situations, escort of nuclear fuel transports in the future and rapid reaction force against attacks on high value sites such as nuclear power plants.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

what

Experienced member
Moderator
Messages
2,056
Reactions
9 6,099
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
The only reason that makes sense for police to have Atak Choppers is that someone in his palace is still scared and building his own parallel structures. His very own republican guard. There's a reason why people trust the military more than they do the police.
 

astragan

Active member
Messages
33
Reactions
1 120
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I stated it multiple times, these helicopters in police hands are because of the lessons learned in July '16. There is no police force in the world that operates dedicated attack helicopters but Turkey. Turkey is a first in the world and even attack helicopters for its paramilitary force is quite unique or also a first. This diversification of heavy firepower is not because of some cumbersome bureaucracy that would prevent one state agency from making use of it by lending it from another agency, but IMO because of the coup.

We have even witnessed that the forestry service is operating the TB2. I wouldn't be surprised if these serve a secondary (or covert primary) role in suppressing a military coup, should one happen.

The stated reasons by others that these ATAKs in police hands will be used against PKK is laughable. The TSK is more than capable to handle that and doesn't need another agency actively involved in its rotary wing actions.

Other roles I can ascribe to these police ATAKs are armed escort for high value people during high threat situations, escort of nuclear fuel transports in the future and rapid reaction force against attacks on high value sites such as nuclear power plants.
Turkey has faced numerous internal threats before, like the ISIS bombings. ISIS used modern vehicles to disguise and explode high-value targets, right at the capital of Turkey. If police had a capable and flexible helicopter like Atak in those days, they could have tracked and eliminated such threats. Think of how fast an Atak can react to such a threat. These things are built for lightning operations. An Atak could instantaneously get ready for the operation. Since it is manned, it can be operated faster than a drone. Using its long-range on-board camera, the operator could find a bomber among the traffic faster than city cameras or drones and then, perhaps in a million-to-one scenario, shoot the damn thing before it explodes itself

These could be stationed in all major cities as part of the police force. They could also assist with anti-terrorist operations in border towns where the police has a higher jurisdiction than the gendarmerie. Police helicopters are easy targets for the terrorists. Meanwhile Atak is a war machine.

And to top it all off, these things are Made in Turkey. A single Bell 429, which is the helicopter model used by the police force, costs about more than 6 million dollars. According to news articles, we’ve sold Atak helicopters to Pakistan at 50 million dollars per unit. That number probably includes all the missiles and weaponry required for the Pakistani army as well. So, if a single unit production cost can come down to about 10-15 million dollars, it would be a much better purchase because we are basically taking money from our left pocket and putting it into the other. Additionally, these are probably cheaper to maintain. You don’t have to wait for parts and you don’t have to brace for possible sanctions.
 

Ardabas34

Contributor
Messages
538
Reactions
1,002
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I am also suspecting this is related to preventing a potential coup threat.
I think it is safe to say Turkey is at the moment the number one country with a coup threat.
Why? First, it is the primary target of the worlds most funded, most ambitious global infiltration group: Gulenists. Second, it is the biggest rival of American interests in multiple geopolitic spheres: in Syria and Iraq, in East Mediterranian, in Africa, even in Central Asia since MIT just hunted down some gulenists in Kazakhstan(could be Uzbekstan, cant recall).

Previously we were also informed the policemen were given the equipment of the army as well.

The fact that all of these are happening after 4,5 years since 2016 coup attempt brings the question is there an intelligence report from within the army? Is there an expectation of an attempt due to some info?
If this is the case, it is the most unfortunate. This means the gulenists in the army are still strong enough to attempt sth. Maybe they regained strength within the last 5 years.

Hopefully I am reading these wrong or it is just due to Erdogans paranoia but when all things are considered I think Turkey has every right to be paranoid.
 

Tornadoss

Contributor
Messages
1,331
Reactions
4 2,534
Nation of residence
Czechia
Nation of origin
Turkey
I stated it multiple times, these helicopters in police hands are because of the lessons learned in July '16. There is no police force in the world that operates dedicated attack helicopters but Turkey. Turkey is a first in the world and even attack helicopters for its paramilitary force is quite unique or also a first. This diversification of heavy firepower is not because of some cumbersome bureaucracy that would prevent one state agency from making use of it by lending it from another agency, but IMO because of the coup.

We have even witnessed that the forestry service is operating the TB2. I wouldn't be surprised if these serve a secondary (or covert primary) role in suppressing a military coup, should one happen.

The stated reasons by others that these ATAKs in police hands will be used against PKK is laughable. The TSK is more than capable to handle that and doesn't need another agency actively involved in its rotary wing actions.

Other roles I can ascribe to these police ATAKs are armed escort for high value people during high threat situations, escort of nuclear fuel transports in the future and rapid reaction force against attacks on high value sites such as nuclear power plants.
Forestry service is operating the TB2 is a logical step to monitor forests for fires. Early detection in case of fire could save thousands of trees.
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,426
Reactions
11 4,984
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Police operating attack Helicopters makes no sense, they could give them to the Gendarmerie who at least has operations in rural areas where CAS is needed sometimes but Police? Let's hope they will not rot in the hangars.
What Police needs is not Helicopters but modern equipment to breach doors properly.
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,505
Reactions
5 18,131
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Well my opinion is if we send our forces to fight the PKK that already had shot down attack helicopters of ours, than we have to give our troops the best materials to keep them safe and fight.

The attack helicopter has a full combat suite with full self defense suite. IMO if the police has to fight the PKK they need these combat helicopters as well.

Let us be aware that we do not have a Switzerland without terrorist organizations, we have two neighboring countries that are devastated and terror organizations are armed to the teeth in this neighborhood (moreover the Americans granted them 40 thousand trucks of weapons). So, do we need to equip our police like English bobbies only with a stick?

Police is getting militarised around the world including Western countries.

For Turkey its important our police can take on terrorists also provide internal security.

Remember this terrorists like pkk and isis will always target the police because these terrorists they know they are better equipped to take them on than regular soldiers. Regular soldiers are better equipped than the average police officer.

Turkey is in such a precarious position where our neighbourhood is a warzone. Balkans, Caucasus and the Middle East. Balkans is not at war but that region is volatile place just pay attention to Bosnia as the Serbs with Russian backing are gearing up for a new war for secession.
 
Last edited:

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,564
Reactions
7 7,215
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Those who do no want police to have the firepower want Turkey to be victimized by the global elites through every kind of undemocratic means. Those asking for check and balance in governance are asking for monopoly in enforcing power. They are asking for what suits the global elites.
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,426
Reactions
11 4,984
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Those who do no want police to have the firepower want Turkey to be victimized by the global elites through every kind of undemocratic means. Those asking for check and balance in governance are asking for monopoly in enforcing power. They are asking for what suits the global elites.

LOL, check the new budgets for MSB and EGM you will be suprised.

EGM and Jandarma together have a higher budget than MSB.
 
S

Sinan

Guest
I am also suspecting this is related to preventing a potential coup threat.
This "Police acquiring attack helicopters against a coup" argument is fundementally wrong.

Let's assume that in 16 July police had attack helicopters...so what? Military had F-16s to drop them like a bird. Does anybody seriously believe that police can overpower military when it comes to firepower?

I think, we will understand the reason when police puts them to use in the future.
 

Fuzuli NL

Experienced member
Germany Correspondent
Messages
2,873
Reactions
20 8,312
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Given the geographical situation of Turkey, It's totally justified for our police to gain rotary aircraft fire power.
Armed terrorists are still in the country albeit in smaller numbers, plus we need this for infiltrating terrorists from Iraq and Syria.
Police Special Forces (PÖH) has been more active in recent years in weeding terror elements from the country's hard to reach terrains.
Using UAVs and choppers, the reaction could be prompter and with minimum loss.
 

Tornadoss

Contributor
Messages
1,331
Reactions
4 2,534
Nation of residence
Czechia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Those who do no want police to have the firepower want Turkey to be victimized by the global elites through every kind of undemocratic means. Those asking for check and balance in governance are asking for monopoly in enforcing power. They are asking for what suits the global elites.
You say what?
For me it's proper use of the budget. We don't have unlimited resources to spend. Police should have what they need for the duties in their mission description.
 

Test7

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
4,787
Reactions
18 19,933
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Turkey
T-129 Phase II for Turkish Army

1_auto_x1_colored_toned (9).jpg
 

Nutuk

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
990
Reactions
8 3,544
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Everyone has an opinion on the matter, which is fine cos we need to discuss from all views to have a good overview.

But let us also look at realities on the ground, take the blacksea region as example. The PKK tries to get a foothold even in the black sea region. Now the question, should the army deal with this or the police? If the police has to deal with it (my own opinion is that it should be a police case) than with what weapons?

Another thing is what we had in 2015 when PKK tried to occupy several cities, again the question, who's responsibility should this be?


For me it is clear, internal matters should be a police case, not army case. And sure when help is needed of course the army should and will help out. But the police should have the base to handle it.
 

Combat-Master

Baklava Consumer
Moderator
Messages
3,667
Reactions
15 25,473
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
So the Phase II T-129 that Polis have does not include the Electronic Warfare sensors - which makes sense, but at the same time the attachment points exist for if they want to retrofit EW capabilities - Nice!
EugCSZEXMAIP9TA.jpg
 

Tornadoss

Contributor
Messages
1,331
Reactions
4 2,534
Nation of residence
Czechia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Everyone has an opinion on the matter, which is fine cos we need to discuss from all views to have a good overview.

But let us also look at realities on the ground, take the blacksea region as example. The PKK tries to get a foothold even in the black sea region. Now the question, should the army deal with this or the police? If the police has to deal with it (my own opinion is that it should be a police case) than with what weapons?

Another thing is what we had in 2015 when PKK tried to occupy several cities, again the question, who's responsibility should this be?


For me it is clear, internal matters should be a police case, not army case. And sure when help is needed of course the army should and will help out. But the police should have the base to handle it.
Rural areas is in responsibility of gendarme not police.
For the second case, maybe they should not closed their eyes when terrorists move weapons and explosives to cities.
 
Top Bottom