Baykar - News

[what]

The purpose of this thread is to post general news about Turkeys biggest drone company.
Please use the existing threads about Baykars products, avoid double posting.

 

[Agha Sher]

The purpose of this thread is to post general news about Turkeys biggest drone company.
Please use the existing threads about Baykars products, avoid double posting.

soon Turkiye’s biggest defence company*

 

[what]

soon Turkiye’s biggest defence company*

Aselsan is pretty ahead and made 1bln € in the 3rd quarter alone last year (vs. Baykar 1bln € total in 2022 afaik). No complete numbers yet for 2022. TAI too is still ahead. But you know thats the kind of competition that we want to see.

 

[Fighter_35]

soon Turkiye’s biggest defence company*

After akp era, ASELSAN and TUSAŞ will make their names everywhere.
Tusas aims top 10 in the world around 2030

 

[Ryder]

People who hate Baykar because Selcuk is married to Erdogans daughter.

Well the company existed well before Selcuks marriage to Sumeyye.

You guys love to mix politics into every fcking thing because thats how the Turkish mentality works.

No offense.

 

[Afif]

soon Turkiye’s biggest defence company*

The level of technology as well as the amount application TUSAS and ASELSAN works on, is definitely higher than Baykar.
But the thing is, most of TUSAS project is now under development at various stages.
when TFX, ATAK II, ANKA III, T925, Hurjet enter the domestic and international market you will see how radically it changes the equation. And top of that, TUSAS also develop satellite and space technology.

And when it comes ASELSAN, well, it develops all kind of electronic and semi conductor technology. which is the heart of any modern defense industry.

Honestly, if i were given a choice to choose for my country between Aselsan, Roketsan in one hand, and Tusas, Baykar on the other hand, i would choose Aselsan and Roketsan.

Look at Israel, they barely sells any drones, and they are not even developing 5th gen fighter or heavy attack helicopter nor even destroyer or submarine.
And yet their annual defense export is huge.

Anyway, i think Baykar will keep its third place in the foreseeable future.

 

[what]

No offense to Baykar, but they remain a single product company more or less for the time being. Akinci sales are nowhere near the numbers or TB2, Kizilelma is not on sale yet.

TB2 will be the cash cow for now but eventually a market is saturated, so they need to diversify and deliver some good products. I have no doubt that they will keep their top position but Aselsan, TAI have so much more to offer. I mean Aselsan profits either way, from Baykars and TAIs products.

Aselsan the hidden champ of the industry.

 

[GoatsMilk]

No offense to Baykar, but they remain a single product company more or less for the time being. Akinci sales are nowhere near the numbers or TB2, Kizilelma is not on sale yet.

TB2 will be the cash cow for now but eventually a market is saturated, so they need to diversify and deliver some good products. I have no doubt that they will keep their top position but Aselsan, TAI have so much more to offer. I mean Aselsan profits either way, from Baykars and TAIs products.

Aselsan the hidden champ of the industry.

Do we ever see Baykar focus on other parts like the engine, optics or munitions, or is it more likely they will procure them from other Turkish companies in the future?

Is there anything within the drone industry that makes sense for them to eventually bring inhouse?

 

[Mehmed Ali]

There is a word for all of this , it is called DEMAGOGUE.
There is something very particular with these types, if someone goes to many different forums and topics it is easy to notice a couple of things which are prelevant.
Someone can notice thar No Nation goes to these lengths of " chritisism " of his or her nation to this extent, none never.
It is mostly the accusations without referring to anything, it is basically we are clever and honest just because we are what we are and other are stupid and nasty because they are what they are.
It goes so far thar often these people will find the common language or some kind understanding even with enemies of Turkey. No matter what party or political idea in Turkey is but one thing is reality a lo of people are for one side so this people are ready to split people obviously for their and their puppet masters goals. It is an obvious fanaticism.
Other thing is , let's say even they will criticizes foreign factors but certain never.
Often these people are iislamophobes in the most superficial and primitive way and it is such way that it is obvious that they have no truly critical epistemology. Have mentioned epistemology they have very lemoned like intellectualism.
They are very arbitrary yet they claim that they are labelled. Labelled? Why not ? That's how you present yourself.
Above all and I mentioned this before I don't think that they are what they say that they are, because all of this anomalies are too much.
Example being for this , if you go to Pakistani defence Forum, you will see the writing of a scum called Legiomerr . The arrogance, nastiness, thinly wailed turkophobia is obvious. The style of writing is acin to irano kurdish style which we can see often.
By the way in some of my exchanges with him here I said " You are a legioner? French or Armenian" Well , certainly I am not privy to many things yet through my life I learned to suss people, not simple paranoia , though it helps , but by their expressions, instincts and the context of things.
Myself if you followed introduced myself Mehmed Ali son of Salahudin and Aysa , born 1967 in Sarajevo, living London , sur name Sokolovic.
And this joker F 35 ,he started yapping because these days the public charlatans in Turkey started to talk about this so this minion did.
Sorry dude no money to Lockheed Martin no money for you to work in office in some ngo payed by the cowboys.
Shame that this none entities have free space to express their opinion.
As Umberto Eco said " Omce upon time a stupid people were ignored ot shut down by the clever with the invention of Internet, they have an audience like they are Nobel Price winners "
Ciao bello
I forgot they do all of this with such rage and hate , it is always personal with them , so it yet another sign what they are.
The chritic must be formulated with valid arguments and some amount of decent intention alas never with those Bahtiyars , Abdul Hussains , Krekorians and let's say Yeshuas
Semi littetates

 

[Oublious]

Do we ever see Baykar focus on other parts like the engine, optics or munitions, or is it more likely they will procure them from other Turkish companies in the future?

Is there anything within the drone industry that makes sense for them to eventually bring inhouse?

how long are you her and did you learned nothing? Why would company like Baykar make optics and munitions? Engines>?

Does Tusas make anything what you asked?

 

[GoatsMilk]

how long are you her and did you learned nothing? Why would company like Baykar make optics and munitions? Engines>?

Does Tusas make anything what you asked?

i know they dont make it. That's why I'm asking if it would ever make sense for them as a way to expand their portfolio. Its "JUST" a question.

 

[Rodeo]

Do we ever see Baykar focus on other parts like the engine, optics or munitions, or is it more likely they will procure them from other Turkish companies in the future?

Is there anything within the drone industry that makes sense for them to eventually bring inhouse?

Avionics design, flight actuators design and manufacturing(?), more robust flight control software(esp. important with an unstable aircraft like KIZILELMA), more emphasis on network-centric warfare and network security, maybe over the air update capability, gaining enhanced manufacturing capabilities suitable for supersonic flight, streamlining the production lines etc. These are the things that comes to mind. But if you asked what would be "the thing" that will put BAYKAR above all, then my answer would be the software. If BAYKAR drones to dominate the sky, it will be the advanced autonomous features of the drones that may, someday, can decide and perform the kill without requiring any human input(no human-in-the-loop) and squadrons of drones operating like a hive mind.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Avionics design, flight actuators design and manufacturing(?), more robust flight control software(esp. important with an unstable aircraft like KIZILELMA), more emphasis on network-centric warfare and network security, maybe over the air update capability, gaining enhanced manufacturing capabilities suitable for supersonic flight, streamlining production lines etc. These are the things that comes to mind. But if you asked what would be "the thing" that will put BAYKAR above all, then my answer would be the software. If BAYKAR drones to dominate the sky, it will be the advanced autonomous features of the drones that may, someday, can decide and perform the kill without requiring any human input(no human-in-the-loop) and squadrons of drones operating like a hive mind.

Which makes me ask about something else i'm ignorant on, when we mention the software does that mean all the code is Baykar produced, or is that code running on someone elses operating system? And if you use someone elses chips, does that effect what software you can create and run on it?

And could that software be licenced out to 3rd party countries? Because it does seem that at least when it comes to the skies that autonomus AI may end up being the next big thing.

 

[Rodeo]

Which makes me ask about something else i'm ignorant on, when we mention the software does that mean all the code is Baykar produced, or is that code running on someone elses operating system? And if you use someone elses chips, does that effect what software you can create and run on it?

Baykar doesn't write operating systems to run their code on, if that's what you're asking. While there are many computers in the drones, I suspect that they're using a custom compiled linux kernel of some version and some RTOS for microcontrollers. There's no risk using these systems as they're open-source. The phones, satellites, supercomputers, rockets, cars etc. everything runs on these operating systems.

The computer chips are supplied from abroad as we don't manufacture them. Apart from a few countries, everyone does the same.

 

[bisbis]

Hmm let me write directly for the ones I remember,

-free of charge land for new facility
-tax exemption
-state support hence ukranian engines will be produced by a company 50 percent of which belongs to bayraktar family
-right to export missiles of state company roketsan (with this they will even make money from roketsan missiles)

-many advertisement of state ,even TUSAŞ CEO mention Baykar more than Anka /aksungur etc.
-and there are also some other financial supports to increase production of tb-2 and akıncı but this can be considered normal ,other companies like BMC ,TUSAŞ also get this kind of support

More importantly, almost direct purchase by the army with out many tests(normally first products get countless tests by the army since they have their requirments) for each requirement army tests it rigoursly.
But we did not see this on akıncı, almost after Baykara finishes akıncı tests ,army directly purchased it with out months taking tests.

Is this enough?

Or can you tell me that you still believe that baykar used to produce tb-2 with 93 percent locality, while they use foreign engine, foreign camera , and many other important foreign components.

And see below what Babacan actually told!! Is there anything that is not logical in what he said??

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1614362995424989190

In fact, Mr. Babacan also knows the answer to the questions he asks. Because he had a lot of information about this company during his ministry.

For example, the incentives etc. had to go through paternalistic. for the signature of both the ministry and the decision of the council of ministers.

Baykar's support is not a problem. Because the supports they flow are the supports given to most investing companies. Land, income tax, Kdv, various supports for machinery park, SSK premium supports etc. So is there a different support applied to them? none.

The guys don't even get support for product development.

Well, doesn't Mr. Babacan
know about this? he probably knows. But in today's conjuncture, an opposition party leader is not considered an opposition if he does not speak to Baykar.

May be , it was a condition of cooperation with Hdp. To denigrate Baykar.

 

[bisbis]

Your opinions don't matter to me, only facts.

You just list a few products from the top of your head and claim that Bayraktar TB2s were mostly "imported and assembled" then. This is a pretty funny claim considering that TB2 contains numerous subsystems including dozens of different types of electronics, mechanical systems, and software. Yes, the engine of the TB2 is of foreign origin as well as the optics (replaced by domestic Turkish optics) which is included in the given rate, 93% from the beginning.

Your made-up point does not stand at all. If you think the rims and fuel pumps make up the majority of a UAV, think again. Only the types of avionics developed by Baykar itself multiply those things in numbers, let alone the contribution of the other Turkish defense companies.

I should also mention that Baykar uses different components of foreign origin when it is demanded by the customer. That doesn't mean the equivalent domestic component isn't being used by Baykar & other customers.

Show me how it was the opposite of the truth as you still claim:

Do you even know when did Selçuk Bayraktar make this statement for the first time, and what was the localization rate of TB2s then? Which (sub)components were manufactured abroad? How did you exactly "prove it for yourself"?

Baykar is criticized so much for being one of the factors that enable Turkey to achieve strategic gains. For example, the African expansion.

Since aviation is not very common in our country, Baykar initially bought some components from both domestic and abroad. Like a propeller. But later, as our country's opportunities allowed, these components became localized. One of the most important of these is servo actuators, various navigation devices.

However, the most important feature of Baykar when they start the drone business is that the autopilot belongs to them. I think it's this autopilot development capability that makes it bawling. Both hardware and software.

Look, there is such a big game against Baykar that a writer on a website said that you are using the bombers of our country. Mr. Haluk came out and said no, we have developed our own bombers and we are using them.

In other words, this job of criticizing Baykar and scribbling started from abroad.

 

[bisbis]

Many people faced many things like this in the past!! Tusas also faced same things when they designed their UAV in the 1990s. So he is not special to Baykar. They should answer for the cases after Selçuk became damat! No one says they got so many support before becoming damat!!
So basically they try to not answer for the real questions but manipulate people's feelings with past events!!
So we can understand why vestel UAVs not purchased !! He also forgot to mention that this case took place when akp was in charge!!

If you had followed the competition process of the tb2 well before it entered the inventory, you would have known that Vestel's Karayel UAV could not meet the requirements for a very long time, and that its autopilot was foreign.

In fact, I would like to remind you that the soldier who tried to prevent the acceptance of the tb 2 screening in Haluk Bayraktar's latest TV statements and insulted him entered with vestel.

 

[bisbis]

Many people faced many things like this in the past!! Tusas also faced same things when they designed their UAV in the 1990s. So he is not special to Baykar. They should answer for the cases after Selçuk became damat! No one says they got so many support before becoming damat!!
So basically they try to not answer for the real questions but manipulate people's feelings with past events!!
So we can understand why vestel UAVs not purchased !! He also forgot to mention that this case took place when akp was in charge!!

Think about it, there's a trillion-dollar manned fighter jet industry in the world.

Various military and economic power balances and mechanisms have been established in the world based on this sector. In fact, a manned aircraft called the F35 was built with a very high investment cost.

Later, in a sector where there are so many large companies and powerful states, a small start-up company emerged and built an unmanned aircraft that could compete with this latest generation manned aircraft. The warplane industry, which has survived to this day, is almost in danger of disappearing in a vacuum.

Do you think the players of this sector, these powerful states, will leave this small company alone?

Look what happened to people like mr. Hacı Sabancı and mr. Fadıl Akgündüz who wanted to produce cars in this country.

We must protect the baykar. We must support them. For the future of the whole world. For peace, for humanity.

Baykar will soon go into space. Don't you think he deserves to be supported?

 

[Kitra]

Which makes me ask about something else i'm ignorant on, when we mention the software does that mean all the code is Baykar produced, or is that code running on someone elses operating system? And if you use someone elses chips, does that effect what software you can create and run on it?

And could that software be licenced out to 3rd party countries? Because it does seem that at least when it comes to the skies that autonomus AI may end up being the next big thing.

The simple answer is that there will always be other peoples code to control anything from camera, engine, mission computers or just about anything in today's world. It simply take 100000s of people to develop "everything" in an air-craft. It is simply not possible for ANY company and would be extremely stupid.

However, it does not not matter if they run their code on someone else's code as long the communication between the air-craft and ground control is secure as these are closed systems. As you may expect, such encrypted communication software/hardware are normally developed in-house as these are the most critical parts for security. In this context, in-house means domestic.

So, what the underlying code can do is to permanently limit performance or cause certain errors based on triggers but these should be limited by Baykars hardware design, testing procedures and redundancy. One such design choice could be do not share GPS info with the engine as there is no need for the engine to know where it is to operate.

 

[GoatsMilk]

The simple answer is that there will always be other peoples code to control anything from camera, engine, mission computers or just about anything in today's world. It simply take 100000s of people to develop "everything" in an air-craft. It is simply not possible for ANY company and would be extremely stupid.

However, it does not not matter if they run their code on someone else's code as long the communication between the air-craft and ground control is secure as these are closed systems. As you may expect, such encrypted communication software/hardware are normally developed in-house as these are the most critical parts for security. In this context, in-house means domestic.

So, what the underlying code can do is to permanently limit performance or cause certain errors based on triggers but these should be limited by Baykars hardware design, testing procedures and redundancy. One such design choice could be do not share GPS info with the engine as there is no need for the engine to know where it is to operate.

very interesting.