Biden says Pakistan may be ‘one of the most dangerous nations in the world’

Nilgiri

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There was language and behaviour here from a couple members that attracted warnings. Persistent ones got a thread ban.

Respect the forum rules especially when engaging in contentious topics.
 

Nilgiri

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Sounds like a lot of conjecture to me.

Lot of stuff being espoused and asserted here does not meet basic shoe on the other foot consistency....especially for finding whatever irredentism in whichever elements and making tenuous connection to actual policy (desired or actually executed)....without doing that on your own first.

Especially what actually transpired and transpires on the ground across borders.

It is India's establishment fault to quite large degree though.

For starters they should have done a full Nuremberg trial process in those involved in genocide in East Pakistan. Involve an international tribunal at the time as well. With the commensurate footage taken of all the proceedings and consequences meted out. This would have served as some proper scaled repository of at least some justice like Nuremberg and Japan's IWT was post ww2.

When it is now just relegated to essentially a museum with the evidence (in Dhaka and the reality that likely zero members here will visit it to educate themselves) and little past it, it has given huge buffer for people to be inconsistent on the underlying matter....be it actual transpired irredentism and its applied consequence on the ground upon innocents at scale.

It is also little surprise the perpetrators being allowed to get away only reinforced their establishment (and other groups and proxies related to their psyche) to continue on the same path and now into the nuclear and larger weapons paradigm.
 

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While there's a good possibility for Turkey to mediate in good faith, India will be vary of it given Erdogan's previous statements on Kashmir, military ties and weapons sales with pak and the ummah brotherhood

Secondly, I wonder how exactly is Turkey in a position to mediate since it doesn't have any clout, significant economic/trade partner or maintaining a neutral stance wrt to India let alone being an ally or having friendly ties

Also, even if India & pak sit together to resolve the dispute or convert LoC into an IB...the west wouldn't allow it and would want to keep the conflict ongoing for several reasons

I don't expect India to ever have good dealings with Erdogan. Half the Turkish nation doesnt even have good relations with him.

As for clout, i always looked it simply as Turkey having good relations with Pakistan and that Turkey could potentially operate as an honest inoculator between the two. Truth be told its my moral nature that suggests such a thing, if its pure geopolitical rational what do i care if you guys nuke each other? I would actually look to sell you both weapons and profit from your hatreds and bitter feuds in the same way europeans do. Because if you want do take over the indian subcontinent you exploit and use the domestic feuds, just like the british did. But no, thats not my intention its a simple good natured suggestion and want.

West would allow us to enter Syria, we had both the USA and Russia threatening war against us. They wouldnt allow us to enter Cyprus in 1974, both the UK and Soviet Union threatened war against us should we do so. West didnt want us to arm Ukraine we still did. West didnt want us to support Azerbaijan, we did and they liberated their land. West with Russia didnt want us in Libya, not only did we enter we ended their ability to take over the government.

If Turkey of 80 million can do this, Pakistan India of 1.5 billion shouldn't keep saying this or that about whether the west allows, at some point you got to do what's right.
 

Baryshx

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Poor Biden spoke again, his tongue eroded from licking Greece. How and why should we trust China, India, Russia, France, Britain, Israel and the USA for nuclear? He talks too much for someone who's going to fuck off with the election.
 

GoatsMilk

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Poor Biden spoke again, his tongue eroded from licking Greece. How and why should we trust China, India, Russia, France, Britain, Israel and the USA for nuclear? He talks too much for someone who's going to fuck off with the election.

I would interested to know if anyone outside of the western sphere pays any attention to what america has to say?

I suspect the general perception globally is that america is the worlds primary trouble maker?
 

Nilgiri

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As for clout, i always looked it simply as Turkey having good relations with Pakistan and that Turkey could potentially operate as an honest inoculator between the two.

Turkey could hypothetically been a great assistance (in whatever capacity made sense) for India and Pakistan to sort all issues out (say after the genie was let out of the lamp regarding partition in both spheres as that happened).

If it had say 100% commitment and application of Ataturk principles and India and Pakistan had stay true to their best founding principles as well.... this issue would have been a win-win-win for all these countries.

But the problem is the varying (even wayward) degree of commitment and application of these principles with time, that politics (both locally and foreign based) manages to sink into and exploit. At great cost for millions of good regular people everywhere...who bear no ill will to others elsewhere at all.
 

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I would interested to know if anyone outside of the western sphere pays any attention to what america has to say?

I suspect the general perception globally is that america is the worlds primary trouble maker?
As you can see, the world's biggest problem, troublemaker and bloody murderer is the USA. Then there is England as a partner.

It is the same in Russia, but it seems to be getting involved in these matters mostly due to the problems caused by the USA.
 

Nilgiri

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I would interested to know if anyone outside of the western sphere pays any attention to what america has to say?

I suspect the general perception globally is that america is the worlds primary trouble maker?

US simply has the biggest hammer, and thus every problem looks like some form of nail. So yes pretty much everyone knows their particular rapsheet they have with the US given the US rules the roost in this manner since arguably the early 20th century....and more so since the Truman doctrine based interventionism (and how that has evolved) as well.

But it is still important to pay attention to what they say because of this....and always be prepared....till you have sufficient power and wealth commensurate to your population size and can challenge and project that feasibly to counter US (or any great power of its time).
 

GoatsMilk

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As you can see, the world's biggest problem, troublemaker and bloody murderer is the USA. Then there is England as a partner.

It is the same in Russia, but it seems to be getting involved in these matters mostly due to the problems caused by the USA.

Maybe the crazy thing about England's tagging along with American foreign policy is that most people in England are against it. I remember the iraq invasion, i think there was even a 1 to 2 million man march in London against it as well as protests throughout the entire country. The grand majority of the British public are against these invasions and if they were informed of the other things Britain got up to they would also be against it.

Also even the minority that was for these invasions, they are only for them because they believe the propaganda and they believed in the threat.

That's maybe a major difference between Britian invading a country and Russia invading one. The british public in general are against such things unless there is a real justification for it, while the Russians public tend to be for their invasions.

And while the case was being made for the invasion of iraq nearly the entire media spectrum got in line to push the propaganda about weapons of mass destruction, yet the british people in general were not buying it.
 

Baryshx

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US simply has the biggest hammer, and thus every problem looks like some form of nail. So yes pretty much everyone knows their particular rapsheet they have with the US given the US rules the roost in this manner since arguably the early 20th century....and more so since the Truman doctrine based interventionism (and how that has evolved) as well.

But it is still important to pay attention to what they say because of this....and always be prepared....till you have sufficient power and wealth commensurate to your population size and can challenge and project that feasibly to counter US (or any great power of its time).
Yeah, take a hair of the dog that bit you. Usa will eventually find its scourge.
 

Baryshx

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Maybe the crazy thing about England's tagging along with American foreign policy is that most people in England are against it. I remember the iraq invasion, i think there was even a 1 to 2 million man march in London against it as well as protests throughout the entire country. The grand majority of the British public are against these invasions and if they were informed of the other things Britain got up to they would also be against it.

Also even the minority that was for these invasions, they are only for them because they believe the propaganda and they believed in the threat.

That's maybe a major difference between Britian invading a country and Russia invading one. The british public in general are against such things unless there is a real justification for it, while the Russians public tend to be for their invasions.

And while the case was being made for the invasion of iraq nearly the entire media spectrum got in line to push the propaganda about weapons of mass destruction, yet the british people in general were not buying it.
What the British public thinks doesn't seem to mean much to the government and the king/queen. The US, UK and Australia are now also pulling the guns for China. Which country is next, India, Iran, Pakistan or Türkiye?

A big blow was dealt to Russia, when the war is over, it will be busy licking its wounds.
 

AWP

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A ( flirty ) statement for india to join forces with the US against china . just remember that at one point Pakistan was one of the most important ally of the US
 

Zapper

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A ( flirty ) statement for india to join forces with the US against china . just remember that at one point Pakistan was one of the most important ally of the US
I believe the Indian establishment is well aware of the possible consequences of completely relying on the US in case relations turn sour down the lane. No wonder India held it's ground withstanding the west's pressure when it comes to Russia-Ukr, arms purchases from Russia be it the S-400 and several others (even though the imports went down lately), not inducting any US origin weapons systems as our mainstream defence platforms.

Below was India's External Affairs Minister's statement during his recent visit to Australia...how many countries out there do you think have the balls to stand up to the west!!

"India has had a longstanding relationship with Russia, a relationship that has certainly served our interest well including military cooperation, dating back to a time when western countries didn’t supply weapons to India and saw Pakistan as the “preferred partner”
 
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