India Coffee House

[crixus]

This is wrong approach. Islam is not some monolith entity existing to apply A to B over large expanse especially.

Let us be specific in targeting the issues, they stem in all cultures and societies in the end as we are all human...the contexts vary for the cake...the particular present "slice" varies too.

Even large parts of India (a continent of a country as you know) have different diversity and tolerance underlying them (compared to each other)....both on these (religion) matters and other forms of identity politics that have manifested in past, present and future.

You don't answer reductivism with more reductivism. Eye for an eye whataboutism wont achieve progress to begin with.

You have to explain our unique case in scale and context. That is only way to better discussion and some possible solution in the end to grave problems we have.

To be honest I avoid to touch the topics on the basis of relegion . In India you cant speak the truth if you do you become right wing , you cant refer to history because its bloddy . Even if you refer to holy book you become an Islamophobe .

I have literally no problem with anyone outside India because its not easy to understand India . My problem comes when even Indians hide from truth and facts .......

You said eye for an eye and I say not a problem in forgiving but never forget .

 

[Jackdaws]

Oh yes,in that case it is for sure.

Agreed on a societal level, there is a lot of hate.

I want to mention something else. What has surprised me is not Hindu hatred for Muslims. But also other minorities hating them. I've met Parsis who number less than 200,000 and many I've interacted with are rabidly anti Muslim. Even Christians who probably are less than 3% of the population - I've heard them too being rabidly anti Muslim. Sikhs obviously. Jains as well.

So somehow just blaming Hindus isn't exactly par for course.

 

[crixus]

So you admit its your own fault.
Its an internal problem of India.
No clergy can try something similar in my country.

I have no shame in admitting its India's problem which is relegious in essence . To be honest , you guys are lucky to have Ataturk .

 

[Nilgiri]

To be honest I avoid to touch the topics on the basis of relegion . In India you cant speak the truth if you do you become right wing , you cant refer to history because its bloddy . Even if you refer to holy book you become an Islamophobe .

I have literally no problem with anyone outside India because its not easy to understand India . My problem comes when even Indians hide from truth and facts .......

You said eye for an eye and I say not a problem in forgiving but never forget .

I hope you read some of the longer replies I gave here for now and reflect on them.

I will join back again later tomorrow perhaps to see how conversation might have progressed.

Jackdaws tagged Joe already, and it would be interesting to see if he pops by later to give his take on the matter.

I might bring it to his attention later.... lot of these things upset him greatly as you know, he has seen so much of our country (time and space) and is wise about it like few I have seen.

 

[TR_123456]

Agreed on a societal level, there is a lot of hate.

I want to mention something else. What has surprised me is not Hindu hatred for Muslims. But also other minorities hating them. I've met Parsis who number less than 200,000 and many I've interacted with are rabidly anti Muslim. Even Christians who probably are less than 3% of the population - I've heard them too being rabidly anti Muslim. Sikhs obviously. Jains as well.

So somehow just blaming Hindus isn't exactly par for course.

You should add ''Indian'' to the Muslims.

 

[crixus]

I hope you read some of the longer replies I gave here for now and reflect on them.

I will join back again later tomorrow perhaps to see how conversation might have progressed.

Jackdaws tagged Joe already, and it would be interesting to see if he pops by later to give his take on the matter.

I might bring it to his attention later.... lot of these things upset him greatly as you know, he has seen so much of our country (time and space) and is wise about it like few I have seen.

I dint read your replies , will go through it

 

[TR_123456]

I have no shame in admitting its India's problem which is relegious in essence . To be honest , you guys are lucky to have Ataturk .

Yes,his way is the way for us.

 

[crixus]

You should add ''Indian'' to the Muslims.

You know thats where the problem is , Indian Muslims , consider themselves Turks , Arabs , Persians even Syrians but not Indians . If they call themselves Indians then they have to admit that they are converted and they feel lowly that their forefathers were forcefully / bribed / Cajoled for conversion.

You dont even know the fact that those who shout genocide never work the upliftment for the poor muslims whom they consider as Pasmanda and still call them Hindus LOL.

 

[crixus]

Yes,his way is the way for us.

Really wish we had someone like him

 

[TR_123456]

You know thats where the problem is , Indian Muslims , consider themselves Turks , Arabs , Persians even Syrians but not Indians . If they call themselves Indians they become have to admit that they are converted and they feel lowly that their forefathers were forcefully / bribed / Cajoled for conversion.

You dont even know the fact that those who shout genocide never work the upliftment for the poor muslims whom they consider as Pasmanda and still call them Hindus LOL

You should do some research on Muslim countries,then you'll understand that you cant call them just Muslims.
@Joe Shearer can help you alot in this case.

 

[TR_123456]

Really wish we had someone like him

Thats what such a big country needs,a (ex)military man with an iron fist and strict rules.
Two decades should be enough

 

[Ryder]

Pakistan and the Indian issue along with Muslims vs Hindus.

Its complex as shit damn!!!

Im trying to learn all sides but im fcking confused at the same time.

You have Muslims from different countries and you have Hindus from other countries like Fiji. Why would a Bosnian Muslim or a Hindu from Fiji become enemies just because its painted as a Muslim vs Hindu "conflict".

Shouldnt this be more like a local issue between the Muslims and Hindus of the subcontinent. I think its more than religion when you have various factors coming to play.

Some Turks did fight as volunteers for various Kashmiri insurgent groups against India. But their motives ranges from religious duty people should know the whole concept of religious solidarity, adventurism or just fighting for money basically mercernaries fighting for the highest bidders. Many may think its religious but maybe there is another side to it.

 

[crixus]

You should do some research on Muslim countries,then you'll understand that you cant call them just Muslims.
@Joe Shearer can help you alot in this case.

I literally dont want to say that but let me say it :

Turks even with or without Islam will remain Turks
Saudis with or without Islam will remain Arabs
Persians with or without Islam will remain Persians

So the question what Indian Muslims will be without Islam , and when this question comes their identity as Muslim surpasses their identity and Indians and here the problem starts .

as @Jackdaws has mentioned they have issues with Indian Buddhists , Indian Sikhs , Indian Jains and Indian Hindus

 

[TR_123456]

I literally dont want to say that but let me say it :

Turks even with or without Islam will remain Turks
Saudis with or without Islam will remain Arabs
Persians with or without Islam will remain Persians

So the question what Indian Muslims will be without Islam , and when this question comes their identity as Muslim surpasses their identity and Indians and here the problem starts .

as @Jackdaws has mentioned they have issues with Indian Buddhists , Indian Sikhs , Indian Jains and Indian Hindus

Big countries have big problems,good luck.

 

[Ryder]

I literally dont want to say that but let me say it :

Turks even with or without Islam will remain Turks
Saudis with or without Islam will remain Arabs
Persians with or without Islam will remain Persians

So the question what Indian Muslims will be without Islam , and when this question comes their identity as Muslim surpasses their identity and Indians and here the problem starts .

as @Jackdaws has mentioned they have issues with Indian Buddhists , Indian Sikhs , Indian Jains and Indian Hindus

Religion and ethnic identities can also interwine.

 

[crixus]

Religion and ethnic identities can also interwine.

The problem is when you despise your ethnicity and religion become your only identity then such things happen

 

[crixus]

Big countries have big problems,good luck.

Its not a problem ..... to be honest over all situation is far better then 90s , the surprising fact is a guy who dont know abot the division of sub continent and cant even spell Modi can write 20 line on genocide of Muslims in India

 

[crixus]

Pakistan and the Indian issue along with Muslims vs Hindus.

Its complex as shit damn!!!

Im trying to learn all sides but im fcking confused at the same time.

You have Muslims from different countries and you have Hindus from other countries like Fiji. Why would a Bosnian Muslim or a Hindu from Fiji become enemies just because its painted as a Muslim vs Hindu "conflict".

Shouldnt this be more like a local issue between the Muslims and Hindus of the subcontinent. I think its more than religion when you have various factors coming to play.

Some Turks did fight as volunteers for various Kashmiri insurgent groups against India. But their motives ranges from religious duty people should know the whole concept of religious solidarity, adventurism or just fighting for money basically mercernaries fighting for the highest bidders. Many may think its religious but maybe there is another side to it.

Its pretty complex subject , you have to spend years in understanding evena specific region of India .

History , culture , practises of Rajasthan are completely differtnt from Tamil Nadu .
Similary , it goes for all different states every state has its own history , historical icons , cuisines , language and literature .

We are as complex as our wild life lol

 

[Jackdaws]

You should add ''Indian'' to the Muslims.

I literally dont want to say that but let me say it :

Turks even with or without Islam will remain Turks
Saudis with or without Islam will remain Arabs
Persians with or without Islam will remain Persians

So the question what Indian Muslims will be without Islam , and when this question comes their identity as Muslim surpasses their identity and Indians and here the problem starts .

as @Jackdaws has mentioned they have issues with Indian Buddhists , Indian Sikhs , Indian Jains and Indian Hindus

I didn't say Indian Muslims have issues with Parsis and other. I said the other way around.

But OK.

 

[crixus]

I didn't say Indian Muslims have issues with Parsis and other. I said the other way around.

But OK.

Such things are always reactionary and how you know the issues are one sided