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Joe Shearer

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This is kind of what I meant @Vaggos @Anastasius et al

Even skinhead neo-nazis were apparently used by KGB.... so that stuff still lingers...the subconscious idolizing of any power that can provide help undermine existing edifice somewhere:

As early as the ancient Greeks, there was this constant tussle between small numbers of elite, power-wielders and large numbers of the demos. Wherever it was given an opportunity, this tussle broke out through the centuries. It looks as if it will never end, and will last as long as mankind does.
 

Nilgiri

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We must remember that the human mind in general wants easy answers in terms it has gotten most used to over its existence thus far...

IMO, the human mind must become aware of this cognitive need/bias if it is to elevate itself....

This fella (Daryl Davis) gets it spot on, adding his angle on it:


His (daryl davis) longer interview + talk clips are worth checking out incl. the one he did with Rogan some years ago..

The wiki page is actually a good summary overall:

I remember first reading about him on readers digest...gosh... 10?, 15? years ago iirc...and being totally enthralled by some of his accounts with the KKK membership he observed, befriended and reformed.

His approach is a lynchpin of my approach too overall with lot of people that are at first glance "lost causes" in whichever way...even fairly anchored ones.

He even mentions "cognitive disonnance" (as a gentle tool) and that he is well travelled and rich in experiences (of all manner of folk), grew up overseas etc etc...lot of parallels I identify with...

I do think thats a large part of both having an interest in and being able to do this more easily...as they roughly correlate on my end.

I remember my first experience of racism (and not being able to understand it at that age) just like he does too...(on wiki page)


He mentions Mark Twain just like I often do....deja vu heh....

Tom and Huck inspired a lot in me as a kid....very deeply (looking back and reminiscing now)...

*Reads hypocritical letter about "heaven"*
“All right then, I’ll go to hell”
- H. Finn
 

Blackbeardsgoldfish

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This fella (Daryl Davis) gets it spot on, adding his angle on it:


His (daryl davis) longer interview + talk clips are worth checking out incl. the one he did with Rogan some years ago..

The wiki page is actually a good summary overall:

I remember first reading about him on readers digest...gosh... 10?, 15? years ago iirc...and being totally enthralled by some of his accounts with the KKK membership he observed, befriended and reformed.

His approach is a lynchpin of my approach too overall with lot of people that are at first glance "lost causes" in whichever way...even fairly anchored ones.

He even mentions "cognitive disonnance" (as a gentle tool) and that he is well travelled and rich in experiences (of all manner of folk), grew up overseas etc etc...lot of parallels I identify with...

I do think thats a large part of both having an interest in and being able to do this more easily...as they roughly correlate on my end.

I remember my first experience of racism (and not being able to understand it at that age) just like he does too...(on wiki page)


He mentions Mark Twain just like I often do....deja vu heh....

Tom and Huck inspired a lot in me as a kid....very deeply (looking back and reminiscing now)...

*Reads hypocritical letter about "heaven"*
“All right then, I’ll go to hell”
- H. Finn
A man like him deserves nothing but respect. Facing that kind of person, this hateful, imbecilic bully over and over again, is nothing short of a Sisyphean task he's facing. And that he does this for so long, it's genuinely incredible! My heart goes out to him, I wish him all the best for his efforts!

Since you can identify with him on many levels, from bad to good and probably a lot of things in between, do you consider him to be an idol of yours? His methods of dealing with racists and his philosophies on it all?

Please forgive me for lacking recollection of Tom Sawyer, I've rarely ever heard/read that story as a child. My literature back then was always either german tales (to this day I'm uncomfortable when Hansel and Gretel is somehow mentioned, the witch in that story makes the hairs on my neck stand up still) or Harry Potter. Grew up right in the middle of pottermania... read the first book on my own in the first grade of primary school, finished it on the day I received my report card, haha
 

Blackbeardsgoldfish

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@Joe Shearer @Nilgiri
Take all the time you need for your responses, I'm in no hurry. And Joe, please forgive me for my sometimes vague or senseless phrasing, it's not often that I try to put these thoughts into words. Any feedback is welcome & appreciated!
So to get this out before it starts collection digital dust on my hard drive, and because it's my one hundredth post.

One thing that is vital to crafting a state is a tangible ideology around which people can gather, and with which they can feel as if their life has a purpose. A meaning to one’s actions done for the sake of a bigger idea is of crucial importance, if not the most important ingredient to making a state.

For another aspect of the human condition is the continuous fear of death and the resulting decisions taken to prolong life as much as possible. Basically every human has, once death as a concept has been partially understood and visualized, come to fear this unknown yet inevitable part of life. Some deal with it better than others, a fair few have learned to live with it and even revel in the fact that there are no guarantees, a bunch are convinced of their ability to overcome death, yet most find solace in either a religious afterlife/rebirth or the alternative of absolute nothingness once life ends.

But life tends to be “long” for most folks nowadays, and there needs to be something to do in the meantime. As humans are social animals, they most often judge their actions, beliefs and hopes in some way that involves their relationship with other humans. The judgment should, for the most part, be beneficial in the sense that it doesn’t alienate others or isolates you, and just about anything you do and that impacts others is unconsciously planned and executed with that goal. Meaning that humans are prisoners to their own evolutionary traits, which doesn’t bode well for the “purpose” so many seek.

The level of organization that the conceptual state allows to flourish among large groups of people is nothing short of astounding. There are a great many different things worked on by individuals or teams of people every single day. They all usually hold some sort of meaning to the people that work on them, it serves to give them a purpose. Yet these are small in scale, awareness of their existence is reserved for a very limited amount of people. In a state, this organization can however be magnified in scale and can extend to thousands, millions or even billions of people. A leader of a state can use his power within it to create goals that should, in theory, benefit everyone. They can mobilize their populace for it and create a goal that has millions of people convinced of its validity.
But, and this is fairly paradoxical, this tends to work better when a leader isn’t elected. If a leader has come to their position by subjugating those that oppose them, then there will be a common enemy for the people to focus their issues and anger against. This leader, should they be intelligent, could use the armed forces of a state to forcefully mobilize the people into working for a goal that is to their benefit. If this can be done quickly and proves itself to be a worthwhile addition to the people’s daily lives, then criticism against the illegitimate ruler will weaken, if the process is repeated and the people see a better future ahead of them due to the continued effort of both themselves and their leader, then the basis of credibility that formed the opposition will erode into dust.
An elected leader on the other hand will have to work with their opposition, both in a parliament/government that has a political representation of it and the everyday person that opposes them. This is a tightrope balancing act at the best of times, but even more so when the professional and common opposition is actively working against this leader.
So, both our elected and unelected leaders can face credible challenges to their rule, yet they might just be too fond of the position to give it up in a fair fight. This makes them susceptible to the age old practice of “fighting dirty”.

Ostracization and its vile cousin demonization have proven themselves to be powerful tools for those willing to use them, and history proves that too many individuals and groups have experienced this terrible fate. Abusers of these practices have found that they can, should they posses the qualities required for leadership, use those two dreadful things for dividing a society and turning members against one another to further their own goals. We’ll take a hypothetical democratic society as an example, in which the actions, beliefs and hopes expressed by its members and leaders should be to the benefit of all. However, there has been an infiltration by someone that does not share these base values, and this infiltration has been masked by an aura of benevolence. They’ve managed to accrue enough clout to gain an influential position in politics and can now use the power that came with it. They start to undermine basic principles, slowly and carefully manipulate those susceptible enough, sow distrust and instability within the organisms of government, and fertilize frustration among the common people. Then they present themselves as an alternative solution that could alleviate the festered ailing, and since the complexity of politics isn’t comprehended by most, they present an easy scapegoat. Likely one that has been stereotyped and blamed for a variety of problems for many years before they came to power. They’ll start slowly by suggestive comments about their involvements and “hidden agenda”, then it’ll become louder in volume and more audacious in suggestiveness, then there will be a misrepresentation of factual truth, and then there will be outright lies that are presented as truths. This, depending on the situation and pain prevalent among the common people, can quickly lead to a radicalization of thought and perversion of morals. I think we can all see our historical and contemporary examples of this process.

Here comes into play our imprisonment to our evolutionary traits — we, as humans, are social animals. Isolation and alienation from our fellow people is something we’re dreading, if we’re not outright scared of it. Radicalization and segregation of society as described above affects all within a society, and needs to be recognized as such, sadly it usually isn’t done by those afflicted by it.
If we don’t go along with the predominant notion of morality and ethics, no matter how radicalized it is, then we’ll become a (potential)target for ostracization. And either we can stay true to our beliefs and accept this fate, or we can forsake what principles we originally held and defended. It’s a personal choice that is difficult to make, and one on which a lot depends. It could lead to introspection and a new perspective, or it could lead to chickening out and into the arms of those you morally oppose.

What is one to judge themselves against, in this day and age? Who is the gold standard for an idol that is to be emulated? It most likely is someone that has achieved the pinnacle of whatever status you consider to be most important, be it hierarchical power in an organization, wealth, physical prowess, intellectual grandeur, kindness and amiability, positive conduct in interpersonal relationships, devotion to a cause, or something else entirely. If one is ambitious enough, then they’ll likely try to achieve a goal of such nature. Others exist that don’t care at all for these matters, their life is to them as meaningless as anything else, though those are far and few between.

Personally, I believe that the most influential person in history was Jesus Christ, and the most extraordinary person was Yuri Gagarin.
Christ, not because he was the son of god or anything like that, but because of his teachings and the institution(s) created in his name. These institutions have consciously shaped human history more than anything else so far, and while the original teachings of his have been corrupted time and time again, it has played a crucial part in bringing about a sense of ethics, morality and values for the largest religious group presently on the planet(and a major group in size and influence for much of it’s existence). My opinion here is summarized best by the paraphrased words of the Mahatma — I like Christ, but I don’t like the Christians.

Gagarin on the other hand is the most extraordinary person because he was the first one to leave this planet and to return back to it. Others, animals and even a person, had done so before, yet those did not live to see their birthplace again. No other form of life has ever left this planet before, so in this sense he was extraordinary not only as a human, but as a representative of earthly life itself.

So, what’s there to death then, what will happen once it comes to you? In short – no idea. I’d like to think that my consciousness does not require my body to exist, but I doubt it. Complete and absolute nothingness is something I’m incapable of imagining, however do I know that whatever my worries and fears about it are, they don’t matter due them ceasing to exist when one “enters” this nothingness.
Frankly, I’ve tried to find solace in atheism once the flaws in the religious teachings I was exposed to during my youth had become too much to overlook, but atheism hasn’t provided me with the answers for my questions. I just cannot imagine that “life”, an existence that is consciously aware of its own existence, while within a universe that isn’t aware of its own existence, can form on it’s own without the intervention of a higher power. Not that I’d try to delude myself into thinking that my human intellect could understand such a higher power(especially the one that inspired the Abrahamic faiths and the one that I’m most familiar with), but it’s something that I just cannot help thinking about every once in a while. If you, or anyone reading this, finds a sense of security or purpose in prayer and worship to such a higher power, then please do as you wish, for I hold no authority about telling you what to do. Death scares me in the same way that the sun rising in the morning scares me – I’d be shitting my pants if it didn’t happen.

Should one get bothered to define themselves by their actions? Is a person truly that significant, are multiple? Is this planet with all it’s life something special? One planet in one solar system, a hundred billion planets in this galaxy, and a hundred billion galaxies in the known universe(and that’s on the low end of estimates)?The universe is some 14 billion years old, the planet some 4.5 billion and life in its earliest form some 3.8 billion years. Humanity is what, not even a million years old?
I’ve once read that when one person dies, their perspective on the world and everything they considered to be anything dies with them, so in essence an entire world dies. Yet so many have died, and so many more will do, including all of us and everyone we know, so does it matter with that in mind?

But now, after my amateurish expedition into existentialism, we ought to get back to the common ideology necessary to craft a state and political system. When one doesn’t establish an order that spurns people into working for its cause, then we have the end result of a problematic situation, to put it lightly.

What order is there that would, realistically, be capable of motivating everyone living under it to work for its continued existence? Most people would probably say, after a few moments of deliberation, that this order should keep them safe. Primarily safe from crime and war, with other unsavory undertakings that humans get up to following suit.

The established authority in this order must then be able to provide its subjects with this safety, and if it cannot do so, then it will falter. The more hostile the circumstances are in which this order operates, the less likely it will be democratic and liberal in outlook.

When a nation secure in its position, and able to focus its resources on the creation of wealth and education, then its peoples will start to think and shape their worldview more liberally, it’s probably going to be democratic, its leadership focused on the economic well-being instead of security.

If you as a voter have come to the conclusion that your understanding of the larger world outside your immediate perception & experience is insufficient, yet you still want to take part in this world, then you likely will decide to vote. To vote for someone who has a better understanding due to them possessing a deeper, more varied knowledge about this world and the complex processes that operate within it.
A voter will decide for who to cast their vote by judging who seemingly has the best take on the larger picture based on the knowledge they hold about it.
However, the voter also needs to posses the necessary basic knowledge to gain at least a semi-comprehensible view of the issues that made you vote for your candidate. Because, and this is important, if you do not, then you have just delegated authority to someone that might have been a deliberate liar.

The “election” as a process builds on the foundation that a community of people requires a leader to guide it, and that this leader obtains the legitimacy of his authority not by conquest, but by consent. This consent is given by the community in a fair and transparent vote, in which only those most adept at leadership can win.

This is a system that works quite well in theory, but can be gamed very easily by various methods. It can be undermined by charismatic, confident demagogues that know how to prey upon the weaknesses and charm their desired voter bloc. Corruption of officials or voters, the targeted use of imagery and emotional messaging, intimidation and blackmail, and much more.

It also depends on how a culture views power. Who is truly worthy of it, can power realistically be given to those that “legitimized” their authority by consent? Or is power a tool only for the strong, for those bold enough to wield it and to subjugate others with it?
What forms these factors in cultural identities are usually outside influences. Those cultures plagued by centuries or millennia of foreign evils won’t see themselves be charmed by the notion of consensual authority, what they want is someone in command who can ensure their security. This ties in to my earlier points about democracy being a viable political system only for the wealthy, safe and educated nations.

I’ve decided to stop here before going into my beliefs about ethics and morality, which are even less orderly than this mess here…
Also wanted to expand on a few country examples, like democracy in Portugal between the revolution of 1910 and the rise of Salazar in 32, and the system in place in Northern Ireland from 1921 up to 68, but alas it didn’t happen.
Kudos to you if you made it through that wall of text, have a virtual slice of the cake I’ve yet to make for the weekend. I feel like it should be reiterated that I don’t hold any formal education and don’t have any real interest in political science (the only political science book I ever actually read was Wolin’s “Democracy Incorporated”, which was back then and still is quite the challenge to get through), these are just my thoughts on the topic, written down with enough pompous and pretentious vocabulary to mock it into oblivion.
Feedback of any kind is, as always, welcome & appreciated, especially if it’s critical.
 

Nilgiri

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A man like him deserves nothing but respect. Facing that kind of person, this hateful, imbecilic bully over and over again, is nothing short of a Sisyphean task he's facing. And that he does this for so long, it's genuinely incredible! My heart goes out to him, I wish him all the best for his efforts!

You might think its sisyphean heh....but I actually have found it can spawn chain reaction stuff too.

On a very different but somewhat similar matter, I remember advising a friend of mine (many years back) how to manage his anger...and then work to conflict resolution. It took some time, but he applied himself and became quite good at it himself.

Recently completely by coincidence, I acquainted with younger fella starting out in same place now....and I brought up things that angered me and anger me still........and he then got around to telling me fondly about how my buddy (now fairly high up in that department) helped him on the same thing.....and how it helped him resolve issues he had.

He didn't know about our earlier and longer friendship....and I didn't see much reason to bring it up as I quietly listened.

Just mentioned that he should also help others when he can now. But I was quite pleased things like this do transmit.

Often it is about doing the best with what you have and letting chips fall as they may past that. Stuff does shift.


Since you can identify with him on many levels, from bad to good and probably a lot of things in between, do you consider him to be an idol of yours? His methods of dealing with racists and his philosophies on it all?

An admirer of such folk in general.... idol is bit extreme of word maybe heh.

Not just this field, but in general I appreciate people who are both interested and able to change the way people think towards a more moral, productive way.

That is incredible powerful and impactful.

I feel all of us can apply it even in a limited way where it can do some good....in ways we best know ourselves.


Please forgive me for lacking recollection of Tom Sawyer, I've rarely ever heard/read that story as a child. My literature back then was always either german tales (to this day I'm uncomfortable when Hansel and Gretel is somehow mentioned, the witch in that story makes the hairs on my neck stand up still) or Harry Potter. Grew up right in the middle of pottermania... read the first book on my own in the first grade of primary school, finished it on the day I received my report card, haha

Harry Potter is good stuff.... I think I watched the first movie and then got into the books (I think just the first 3 - 4 were out by that point).

Tom Sawyer (And its sequel about Huckleberry Finn) is a classic story of coming of age amongst an unfair world full of hypocrisy and injustice....and staying true to a greater virtue despite that.

If you liked the friendship theme (and that prevailing) of Harry Potter, you will see it mirrored quite strongly in Twain's classics too...though in a more down to earth way heh (and replete with modern day controversy...that I will let you judge for yourself).

Lord of the Rings too, right at its core its friendship(s) that surmounts all odds....

I think in the end, our very survival and existence depends on there being more friendship than the opposite....


This world has room for everyone and the good Earth is rich.... - Chaplin
 
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Nilgiri

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True. But the armed forces of Ukraine are putting up quite a fight.

Well they are sons of the soil, so of course it is to be expected.

Changes a great deal when you are the occupier.....even when fighting defensively.


There was a great fighter hercules met, and he was undefeatable (and was getting the better of even mighty Hercules in their contest) as he was son of mother Earth and gathered great power from her.

Hercules eventually found out he had to lift the fella (severing his contact with the Earth) and bear hug crush him suspended like that.

But that is illustrative of the power of the soil that gave birth to you.


@Joe Shearer @Vaggos probably know the story of Antaeus...
 

Nilgiri

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Let's get one thing straight, individuals do not speak for countries.

This guy is not even in Indian govt to begin with (and his context bears looking at too if we are to quote him).

I speak and support Ukraine from my individual standpoint, as in the end I am accountable for myself only.

When we go to country-scale, there is too much long history of transaction first....morality way later.

It has been demonstrated to us time and time again (yes involving war, blood and innocent lives due to western hypocrisy...during both colonial era and post-colonial era)....so we will not join some bandwagon of theirs (trying to selectively trumpet something different) now or in the future.

They showed little to no concern for us on these topics back then....remained aloof (or even supporting of the evil perpetrating it)....all in the name of transactional equation first.

As bigger party, they will have to address and make amends for it first.....not us.

We are not one day going to forget who sanctioned us over nuclear testing (that somehow they got to do with no sanctions on each other)....

The gall of the west to feed the Russian war chest for the last 30 years, not address that (by own argument priority), yet come after others is appalling at best.

Even quite directly at moments:



Let them sanction each other severely (weapons, energy trade you name it) first....for what they did with far more time and money (with Russia, and employing their own logic they want to impose on others) than any other part of the world did.

Hope you read @Isa Khan reply here too:


Any further conversation, I will quote this reply in 🇮🇳 coffee thread and interested parties can continue there, so as to not clog this thread more.

For @Madokafc @Saithan @Lordimperator @HTurk @tomthebotfly @Huelague and any others to continue convo they want
 

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@Isa Khan gave the necessary answer. My pov is that Ukraine is now fighting for their “independence” like Turkey did and we can choose to feed them weapons for this endeavor

If this is Ukraine's independence war, which most people indeed believe it is, why is India, a country still suffering immensely from colonialism, imperialism, exploitation and foreign rule, not supporting the Ukrainian people who are struggling for a future they themselves want to shape for their children?
 
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Nilgiri

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"will"..... I am talking the last 20 - 30 years dude.

Plenty of time, plenty of money, plenty of know-how on 🇩🇪 side surely?

Lacking common sense apparently.....intellectual but idiot....

What is the total money flow from West to Russia over the last 30 years? Let's start there.

Then compare it to those West wants to "get on board"....is it 10 times more? 100 times more? Lets see the numbers.



But now rest of world is supposed to turn on a dime about it....after West have financed and built up Russia to this extreme degree.

That too a country right on doorstep of West with a whole cold war to learn up close psyche-wise for Europe surely?

Both Western and Eastern Europe (literally lived on other side of iron curtain to know it) surely?

Then what was done by this lot in last 8 years when Putin munched up crimea and donbass?

Y'all are closest to it....right?

Was there a reduction in the money flow and investment interest and oligarch loving where it mattered the most?

(Again purely going by western argument now).

===================================

Forget what West have done w.r.t China too and now throwing a (hypocrite) tantrum about it like dr frankenstein too.

At least that one there is some semblance of a distance + "someone elses problem" compared to Russia (from west's own logic horizon).

So yeah, treat their argument and selective BS on it now with any degree of seriousness?.... NO.

West deals with its OWN stupidity and its OWN consequences FIRST....before doing its sermon and filthy pathetic media grovelling to anyone else.

If they got something to say, they can say to our face....instead of the media woke threat crap.

We can then get to who supported who's "independence wars" to buy any shred of a larger morality so far.

Many (especially the west) will not like the reality there one bit. (to Hturk later convo ill get into)

It will be a cold day in hell when we, the developing world, take ANY sermon from a group of countries that to this day honour the medal(s) pinned on FRANZ HALDER.

Medals that stay there (read it up, I dare any one of you over-shilling for the West here)....after what was done there (on much of poland, ukraine and russia combined).

I don't know what exactly Yad Vashem and Wiesenthal have been told/ordered in looking the other way on that crap.

Maybe the whole paperclip von braun stuff would collapse if its explored huh? Too uncomfy for DC hierarchy I bet.

The blinking woke idiot mobs they grow and cultivate would rather pull down confederate statues lol....

We are supposed to make sense of the selective hypocrisy and selective outrage this bunch want.

Yeah nope. Get lost and get bent. Fix your own mess on this first.

Our issues mattered zilch to you and the West power- freaks still come here to grovel and preach on theirs.

Ivory tower Degenerates.

I will deal with your two replies here a bit later @Saithan @HTurk ....this one will give sense of where I am coming from hopefully.

Hopefully Joe and any others interested also show by then to add 2 cents.
 

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any others to continue convo they want
Thank you for the invit,
Regarding my statement on this
It would be an awkard on the same side with PRC

On the UNSC Ukraine Invasion India gov. made the same vote as PRC abstain, I dont have any intention to insult, if it means to be taken as an insult, then pardon me. Ofc, some
its just iam quite interest what is the opinion when after these all Russian getting closer with PRC with the effect of the sanctions given.
 

Marlii DFI

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If this is Ukraine's independence war, which most people indeed believe it is, why is India, a country still suffering immensely from colonialism, imperialism, exploitation and foreign rule, not supporting the Ukrainian people who are struggling for a future they themselves want to shape for their children?
We are not supporting anyone. Ukraine has sold t80 tanks to pakistanis along with the fact that most of our weapons are russian t90s,su30s it is a long list. why should be effectively behead our military in face of chinese and pakistani aggression when our own existence is at a threat? Bangladesh also in 71 was fighting for its freedom.but didn't see any support .Germany and many european countries still buys russian gas but make a fuss when we buy it .
 

Nilgiri

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Thank you for the invit,
Regarding my statement on this


On the UNSC Ukraine Invasion India gov. made the same vote as PRC abstain, I dont have any intention to insult, if it means to be taken as an insult, then pardon me. Ofc, some
its just iam quite interest what is the opinion when after these all Russian getting closer with PRC with the effect of the sanctions given.

Haha, no my friend, you made a good observation and I just felt it needed another perspective/angle on it.

Any bitterness I had in those pages is purely concentrated on a very few people who were being unfair/unkind in some way....and their replies are now deleted by mod team. I certainly don't invite such to come here to chat more etc.

I have no issue with any people I choose to tag here to discuss further....I like to hear them out and see where the discussion goes....so everyone can gain from it hopefully in the end (other perspectives etc).
 

Madokafc

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We all know how the western allies for so long dreamed to integrated Russian into their own of sphere, economies, politics culture and so on. Hence they hope Will avert conflict and get along together for better future, prevent world war tragedy ever happened again in European soil. Even in the lates of 90's there is notion about Russia joining European Union and NATO, as preparation stage they invited Russia to joint European council. Thus the long term support for Russian economies and invited them into many cooperation, including G8 economy group albeit their economy is not that good and even less compared to some large countries outside of G8.

I know clearly, India is in dilema position as Russia is inheritor of Soviet Union, long time Ally of India in which had been supported India during their time of woes as the US is giving full support for the Pakistan before. Necessary friend and allies should go together in Times of needs, either high either low, that's iron rule in this world if you want to survive with dignity.

But what if even your allies taking more weight in your competitor (China) asking from their help first and supporting their cause in several issue? Even knowing in full it just month away from deadly brawl between India and China. that's should be a major concern for India on where to taking the stand in this issue.
 

SavageKing456

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If this is Ukraine's independence war, which most people indeed believe it is, why is India, a country still suffering immensely from colonialism, imperialism, exploitation and foreign rule, not supporting the Ukrainian people who are struggling for a future they themselves want to shape for their children?
Our decision
Russia is much more important than Ukraine atm
righteousness and unrighteousness is not decided by west
So just because a country is being invaded,doesn't mean that it's right and is a victim
Even then india is pretty much neutral,indians on Twitter might defend Russians out of west hegemony,they threatened india for sanctions hence Indians are pissed.
 
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Joe Shearer

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@Isa Khan gave the necessary answer. My pov is that Ukraine is now fighting for their “independence” like Turkey did and we can choose to feed them weapons for this endeavor
WE can't.

We would look like fools if we took Russian weapons and shipped them to a country they are fighting against.
 

Saithan

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WE can't.

We would look like fools if we took Russian weapons and shipped them to a country they are fighting against.
Russia is doing that a plenty atm. What Ukraine lacks is an edge. More than TB2. They also need AShM to keep the Russian Black sea fleet away.
 

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