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Nilgiri

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@Isa Khan gave the necessary answer. My pov is that Ukraine is now fighting for their “independence” like Turkey did and we can choose to feed them weapons for this endeavor

If this is Ukraine's independence war, which most people indeed believe it is, why is India, a country still suffering immensely from colonialism, imperialism, exploitation and foreign rule, not supporting the Ukrainian people who are struggling for a future they themselves want to shape for their children?

Again exceedingly few cared about independence wars and wars in our region....and have not made proper amends and recognition for all of that.

They just went with transaction relation first, no matter the moral cost.

The entire article is a good read here, but you tell me what those that voted on the wrong side of UN vote (forget abstaining) ought to do as first step long ago.....if not at least today?

On December 7, the General Assembly approved a resolution urging India and Pakistan to a cease-fire and withdrawal of forces. The vote was 104 in favor, 11 against, and 10 abstentions. India, the Soviet Union and other East European countries were the ones voting against it.


For some 8 months prior (to this vote)....any country (incl. Turkey btw) could have sent representatives to assess the numbers involved (of refugees/victims), see the situation for themselves and conduct interviews in refugee camps in India.

i.e There was no excuse for any country to not support BD liberation and independence....surely?

But how many put transaction relationship first with the occupying forces?

In US case they went even further....., their president rejected their own consulate telegram from Dhaka describing the situation on the ground. (Read: Blood Telegram).....and later sent a CBG taskforce to threaten India and Bangladesh (now declared independence and effectively under occupation).

You tell me what amends ought to be made on this first today?

That too for situation now the West created to the tune of 95% degree to begin with (financing Russia + Putin for 30 years...energy and whatever else).

You tell me when even ONE of these countries gets even a tiny slap on the wrist over their own violation:


Putting side the last 8 years totally after Putin "sudentenlanded" crimea and donbass?....even giving plenty of time to Germany to build an LNG port instead of commiting to nord stream 2 on top of 1?

Or its rules for thee, and not for me?....the racist "old boy" club gets a pass when its them.



But hey its a brown country abstaining at UN....time for Lithuania to stop shipment of covid vaccines to BD.

Lithuania going to do 0.01% of any of that action against France, Italy and Germany?...like it did with BD?

I'm curious about these double standards and hypocrisy.

We browns are supposed to take a giant leap past all of that....and poke our nose in a problem that is not ours (given our problems down here were and are decidedly not theirs in most brutal jarring way).....at our state of low development and far distance from the issues at hand (Unlike West).

@Isa Khan
 

Nilgiri

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Just answer me if the DC bigwigs have taken away Franz's medal given to him by the US?:


It will be a cold day in hell when we, the developing world, take ANY sermon from a group of countries that to this day honour the medal(s) pinned on FRANZ HALDER.

Medals that stay there (read it up, I dare any one of you over-shilling for the West here)....after what was done there (on much of poland, ukraine and russia combined).

I don't know what exactly Yad Vashem and Wiesenthal have been told/ordered in looking the other way on that crap.

Maybe the whole paperclip von braun stuff would collapse if its explored huh? Too uncomfy for DC hierarchy I bet.



This morally contemptible "need muh rockets first" transaction-first freak show wants to sermon now.

Heh....not happening pal.

We have many problems in our country....but nothing approaching the scale of hypocrisy the West has....and keeps preening and sermoning past it.....on problems they financed and built up to begin with.
 

Nilgiri

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We all know how the western allies for so long dreamed to integrated Russian into their own of sphere, economies, politics culture and so on. Hence they hope Will avert conflict and get along together for better future, prevent world war tragedy ever happened again in European soil. Even in the lates of 90's there is notion about Russia joining European Union and NATO, as preparation stage they invited Russia to joint European council. Thus the long term support for Russian economies and invited them into many cooperation, including G8 economy group albeit their economy is not that good and even less compared to some large countries outside of G8.

This is the west's fault.

To understand a opaque + psyche-driven country you either need to:

A) accept its opaque system defacto and study it deeper to proceed slowly best with suitable "trust and verify"

B) work with country's liberal forces to make the system more transparent to level somewhat similar to yours first, then proceed with integration

The West did neither of these with Russia or China....and now in respective ways realising what they grown and indulged past saner reasonable approach.

West got greedy+stupid and didnt think first and proceed rationally (and take some hit on easy money). Its that simple.


I know clearly, India is in dilema position as Russia is inheritor of Soviet Union, long time Ally of India in which had been supported India during their time of woes as the US is giving full support for the Pakistan before. Necessary friend and allies should go together in Times of needs, either high either low, that's iron rule in this world if you want to survive with dignity.

We are making shift on this much more than say West (did w.r.t to their total input/output with Russia esp. Germany and lot of Europe) ever has done (even after they had 2014 crimea to learn from and take action).

Have a look:

INDRUSmil.jpg



We are supposed to go above and beyond this when West wont itself?

They are after all still importing Russian energy to this point (using the "dependence" argument), still bankrolling the UKR war effectively.

Fat chance we will take them seriously on this double standard of their literal own-doing.

One can easily churn the numbers with just Germany..... implement French nuclear program for 30 years from 1990 to current (i.e do same as TGV ---> ICE, little need to change things) and build an LNG port in Elbe or Wesel river mouth.

What is the cost of that, compared to the NG imported from Russia in the same time (and infra cost of the pipelines)....and what would it have afforded by now in the geopolitical + security room.

Schroder certainly wouldn't have needed to fly and grovel to Putin to begin with.

Is Germany even going to sanction him when he returns? @what



But what if even your allies taking more weight in your competitor (China) asking from their help first and supporting their cause in several issue? Even knowing in full it just month away from deadly brawl between India and China. that's should be a major concern for India on where to taking the stand in this issue.

That is no big issue. China has lot more economic and geopolitical influence than us.

It is natural for the West (or anyone) to try coax/pressure them on something regarding Russia (or almost any country) first.

India will simply have to build itself up to similar level in coming decades to be approached in same way. That is on us.

That is different issue to hypocrisy approach West is (attempting in media and a few other lackey forces they have) trying to squeeze past what they say when its face to face time:

 

Nilgiri

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@guest12 please have read of this page (and more if you want) and let us know anything you think.

West double standards stink dont they?
 

Nilgiri

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Russia is doing that a plenty atm. What Ukraine lacks is an edge. More than TB2. They also need AShM to keep the Russian Black sea fleet away.

West financed Russia for last 30 years heavily (and showed little change in last 8 years over sudentenland crimea situation).

They carry most culpability (by their own argument) and thus are in position/responsibility to help Ukraine in the heavy lifting 95% too.

They can pump in whatever they want to, to help UKR out.

What can India provide without grievously damaging its own security and economy? We are at least 10 times security and economy deficient than the west in absolute way....and much much more in per capita way on both.

Basic precedent wise, we didn't get any help when the East Pakistan situation deteoriated to the hellscape it did.....and we have grown accustomed to not expecting any help on such things push comes to shove.

It's our region, we took charge....and fronted the blood, sweat and tears.....and heavy economic cost on top.

Objects in mirror are closer than they seem.

We got no help...and get no help for things snarling at us.....

.......so please dont come asking us for help when its suddenly something snarling closer to you....especially with the wealth and military resources you have (and so called greater knowledge of geopolitics and statecraft).....

Matter of you following your own policy you set with us.
 
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Nilgiri

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@Nilgiri @Joe Shearer @Jackdaws @Peace Lover

Guys I have one question why some Indian still post and respond on that green forum , even after knowing the kind of responses they are getting .

I bet without any Indian responses , that forum will lose almost all its traffic

Does it matter?

somewhere between 30 - 70% of Indians I have found have some weird fascination with re-runs of the worst crap bollywood has produced.

It extends from that mentality in general.... little overall refined taste.....and there is just enough tendrils of a plot begging to be liberated and expanded.....but its all disshoom dishoom cheap stunts, last word drama, bad writing...and whatever camera angle staring effect BS that weighs it down but provides a cheap thrill or high for those that are addicted to it*.

The lumpen literati of India... and they are junkies addicted to stuff like that.

PDF is just online cocaine version of it, hits the veins direct and extra hard for those wanting a cheap rush....as I told @Deliorman and @xenon5434 recently lol.

The betters/worthies like the plot tendrils (and the betters/worthies that provide them)....but get lost among the fray inevitably generally.

Shrug, it is what it is....

======================================================================================================

*
 

Nilgiri

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When it comes to voting, one needs to keep in mind that it's not simply an act of being "correct" about the political opinion one holds. When you cast your vote and agreement that your beliefs should be the formative ideas that influence every person in your village/town/city/state/country, then you have brought part of the responsibility for the wellbeing of those that are influenced by your decision onto yourself.
A government that you as a voter have helped to bring into being is not the one solely responsible for the decisions that are taken, as it required and continues to require your agreement, and the agreement of most of the fellow voters in a functioning democracy. Therefore the supporters of the government need to scrutinize the policies enacted, and criticize it as objectively as possible, and should never allow themselves to become complacent with unethical or unlawful conduct by(members of) their government, just because those represent the political principles they hold. This means that should a decision be taken that purposefully affects fellow citizens negatively, and brings about a benefit only to a select group, then the government’s supporter needs to object to the policy and prevent it from being implemented.

Because a democratic political system represents the software to the hardware of the nation in which it operates, you, as the user/voter, need to be “loyal” not to the government but to your nation. You can change software, but you cannot change the hardware – in a democracy you can change your government but you cannot change your nation. You want to have the best possible software that fits the best to your hardware. Just because you like certain aspects of a software does not mean that it will work with your hardware, and therefore you need to change it to make it work as best as possible.

Now, the question of the nation, what it is and if it should be, is something that I have my issues with. The feeling of belonging to a nation is for many people a sense of pride, of meaning and it feels natural. It allows for a level of organization between peoples that has brought human civilization and technological, industrial, scientific, etc. capability to unprecedented heights, and should therefore be seen as one of the greatest inventions in human history. With being a citizen of a nation, you can identify yourself as someone more than just “you” in whatever metrics you can think of for yourself as a singular unit. Henceforth a nation shouldn’t be identified by it’s leaders and governments, but by it’s history, culture, traditions, art and peoples in this sense and to a certain degree even the geographic boundaries.

The nation as a concept however makes me uncomfortable. It is not a desire of mine to see myself having to obey a government which I did not vote for, that resides in a place that I rarely ever venture towards, which gives the power over a nation’s economic and social spheres to itself and it’s electorate, and which is accountable, rarely at that, to a judicial system that I do not consider to be just nor ethical. That the leader of a nation has the best interests of his/her people as a goal is for one rarely the case, not because they wouldn’t intend to do so, but because they’re not humanly capable of performing the workload a position like this requires and for the other are they simply lusting for the power that can it brings with it.

This goes not only for the nation that administers millions or even billions of people, but for vastly smaller circles. If there is a group of people, hierarchies will form spontaneously and with every action taken by members of that group. Having myself experienced nepotism and plutocratic rule in a small environment that operated under the pretense of being meritocratic, I hold an opposition to such a system, one that I will likely never overcome. So in this instance, I associate a negative experience most strongly with hierarchical order, one that I gained from a small circle, and one which I have seen repeat themselves in ever larger groupings of people, until we reach the stratosphere of statehood.

The state is then a product of the people, by the people, for the people, as Lincoln said. It exists solely by the virtue of and for the benefit of it’s people. But how to define benefit for everyone? What is an applicable definition of “benefit” for all the people, is it success and recognition, wealth and status, health and education, or interpersonal relationships of fulfillment? Is it all of those things or an unknown variable…?

But back to democracy, and whether or not it was a successful system. How many times has it failed and how many times has it succeeded? What kind of democracy has been truly representative of everyone?
It certainly has seen some spectacular successes throughout history, the first big one being the Roman Republic. A state that managed to become the first truly dominant european power, but how democratic was it? Most of it’s citizens couldn’t vote, it had millions of slaves, the peoples subjugated by military might were kept poor and given no power – yet it was democratic. Another one was Britain, which while having a supreme ruler, had it mostly for appearances sake and not because it needed one. Britain managed to establish the worlds largest empire, it became more successful than Rome and managed to directly subjugate a quarter of the world’s population with it’s military might. Yet it’s treatment of the people was anything but in their best interest, especially you as an indian should know that, it’s empire existed to make (firstly) themselves and (secondly) Britain wealthy, and their democratic government didn’t care if it starved it’s subjects in Ireland or robbed India to fuel it’s industrial revolution. Yet it was ruled by a democratic system. The third one and most applicable to our times is of course the USA, a nation that claimed to be democratic from the onset, yet only white landowners could vote, it’s founders held contempt for the common people, they held millions of slaves for the economic benefit of the few, drove the natives into extinction and treated it’s immigrants as the scum of the earth… yet it was democratic. So, in this sense, democracy was successful, but it didn’t stick to the values and principles that should make it a viable political system.

If a citizenry isn’t able to educate itself about the workings of a democratic system, either because it is plagued by poverty and lack of educational availability or because it is too undisciplined and lazy, then it’ll fail and be abused by those hungry for power.

I realize that this is rather incoherent and doesn’t come close to a full picture, but it’s a very extensive topic and the post too long as it is. Maybe I’ll continue on with it tomorrow, I’ve got to order my thoughts some more. Any feedback is welcome!

I'll have to get to this next.... I hope Joe and more folks do give their 2 cents as well when they can on the deeper delves.
 

Joe Shearer

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I'll have to get to this next.... I hope Joe and more folks do give their 2 cents as well when they can on the deeper delves.
This damn fellow has written such a deep piece that it's all or nothing. One cannot engage with it, except at the level of a serious critique - just to remind ourselves that a critique is NOT a critical piece, it is an intensely detailed evaluation, eg, Critique of Pure Reason.

The French got it right - reculer pour mieux sauter.
 

Blackbeardsgoldfish

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@Joe Shearer @Nilgiri

You can take as much time as you need, no need to hurry for that. But calling it deep is an insult to actual political science, especially so since I pulled all of that out of my ass in a cumulative ~3 hours, which the quality of my writing tells us haha

And I'll be getting to the other replies that I haven't responded to yet soon, just to let you folks know, having a few busy days here
 
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Joe Shearer

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@Joe Shearer @Nilgiri

You can take as much time as you need, no need to hurry for that. But calling it deep is an insult to actual political science, especially so since I pulled all of that out of my ass in a cumulative ~3 hours, which the quality of my writing tells us haha

And I'll be getting to the other replies that I haven't responded to yet soon, just to let you folks know, having a few busy days here
That's OK, let 'actual political science' handle it. I wouldn't bother about it.
 

what

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@Nilgiri no chance that Schröder would be sanctioned by Germany, but he has really damaged himself and his legacy. No coming back from that. He managed to even turn the last member of SPD, his party, against him.

If anything, I can see the US put him on a sanction list because the other countries lack the balls to sanction the former Chancellor of Germany.
 

Nilgiri

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@Joe Shearer @Nilgiri

You can take as much time as you need, no need to hurry for that. But calling it deep is an insult to actual political science, especially so since I pulled all of that out of my ass in a cumulative ~3 hours, which the quality of my writing tells us haha

And I'll be getting to the other replies that I haven't responded to yet soon, just to let you folks know, having a few busy days here

Heh i'm pretty sure I went into deep delve like you do (on these matters).....lot later in life...probably 10 years later to your age.

I think you are well ahead of the curve buddy....

There is so much I want to get to later in this thread.....I have created a mishmash of a backlog list ....but the time to dispense it in a way proper to my taste is lacking still.

So I wouldn't worry too much about all that (time and quality of writing etc....)...it is whatever you can share the way you see fit....and those interested in the topics all grow richer....it is just our hobby/muse time after all.
 

Nilgiri

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Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett is set to visit India on April 3, his first such visit after assuming office last year.

Naftali is undertaking the visit on the occasion of the commemoration of 30 years of diplomatic relations between India and Israel.

Bennett is paying the visit to India from April 3-5 at the invitation of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) said in an official statement.

Both the leaders had earlier met on the sidelines of the UN Climate Change Conference (COP 26) in Glasgow in November last year. They also had a telephonic conversation on August 16, 2021.

"The visit by Bennett would be his first to India in his capacity as Prime Minister. This visit would take place on the occasion of the commemoration of 30 years of full diplomatic relations between India and Israel and 75 years of India's Independence," MEA said in a statement.

India and Israel elevated their bilateral relationship to a strategic partnership during the visit of Prime Minister Modi to Israel in July 2017.

Since then, the two countries have continued to deepen their strategic partnership, with a focus on innovation and research, read the statement.

"The visit by the Prime Minister of Israel is expected to further strengthen our excellent bilateral cooperation in diverse areas, including agriculture, water, trade, education and science and technology," the statement added.
 

Nilgiri

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Has reached 125 years old...but he humbles most of us in many more ways...


He has been a positive thinker throughout his life. 'The world is my home, its people are my fathers and mothers, to love and serve them is my religion'-- this has been his belief.

He is chasing that mission till today to serve the underprivileged in different parts of the country - in North East India, at Varanasi, Puri, Haridwar, Nabadwip and so on, according to the Rashtrapati Bhavan document on Padma awardees.

For the last 50 years, Swami Sivananda has been serving 400-600 leprosy-affected beggars with dignity at Puri by personally meeting them at their hutments.

"He perceives them as living God and serves them with the best available items. He arranges different materials like food items, fruits, clothes, winter garments, blankets, mosquito nets, cooking utensils based on their expressed need," it said.

He encourages others to hand over different items to the affected people to make them feel the joy of giving so that later on they are motivated to do such types of humanitarian work in their respective areas.


(more at link)

 

Blackbeardsgoldfish

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Heh i'm pretty sure I went into deep delve like you do (on these matters).....lot later in life...probably 10 years later to your age.

I think you are well ahead of the curve buddy....

There is so much I want to get to later in this thread.....I have created a mishmash of a backlog list ....but the time to dispense it in a way proper to my taste is lacking still.

So I wouldn't worry too much about all that (time and quality of writing etc....)...it is whatever you can share the way you see fit....and those interested in the topics all grow richer....it is just our hobby/muse time after all.
My word document's currently getting ravaged by the unorganized mess that's my take on law, ethics and morality, from individual perception of an all-encompassing system and the viability of various forms of punishment, to the lack of knowledge in how to navigate a judicial system without years and years of training, to the unspoken laws of the social contract that dominate communities, the severity of punishment in relation to an individual's social status and power, and since we're on defencehub and war is an ever-present entity here, to the just-war theory and the many forms of abuse it has received, the disproportionality of force employed in modern wars and how arguments validifying and justifying terrorism could be made, the cultural perception of war and the soldier and how it impacts social standing, and much more....
I was just trying to give a picture about the topics that I haven't yet gone into, my posts having been too long and clogging this thread up aside, it's a very complex topic that needs much consideration, so everybody interested please take as much time as you want to respond to this.

Why I've been thinking much about this, and am ahead of the curve, at least in your perception.... it's potentially because democracy in the second half of the last decade was given a good spanking, wasn't it? The major factor here was of course Trump and how he behaved, but in my domestic political establishment we've also been having corruption scandals in the highest echelons of government, first our vice-chancellor was exposed on video where he was caught taking drugs and talked about selling off a national newspaper to (pretend) russian oligarchs, then our chancellor tried to undermine the press freedom, there were expositions about his narcissism and how his entourage kissed his ass in exchange for government positions (now he's quit politics and become an adviser to Peter Thiel, and all the state secrets he knows went with him), and more. The other thing that made me question the democratic structure was covid, more specifically the response to covid on a national and individual level, where I could observe myself getting drawn away from the "freedoms" allowed in my political system and towards authoritarianism, specifically China and how draconian measures managed the pandemic better(false reporting and the current outbreak not too much considered).
 
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Blackbeardsgoldfish

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Has reached 125 years old...but he humbles most of us in many more ways...
I thought Kane Tanaka was the oldest person alive?
He has been a positive thinker throughout his life. 'The world is my home, its people are my fathers and mothers, to love and serve them is my religion'-- this has been his belief.

He is chasing that mission till today to serve the underprivileged in different parts of the country - in North East India, at Varanasi, Puri, Haridwar, Nabadwip and so on, according to the Rashtrapati Bhavan document on Padma awardees.

For the last 50 years, Swami Sivananda has been serving 400-600 leprosy-affected beggars with dignity at Puri by personally meeting them at their hutments.

"He perceives them as living God and serves them with the best available items. He arranges different materials like food items, fruits, clothes, winter garments, blankets, mosquito nets, cooking utensils based on their expressed need," it said.

He encourages others to hand over different items to the affected people to make them feel the joy of giving so that later on they are motivated to do such types of humanitarian work in their respective areas.
The man's had a better, more fulfilling life than most, even if he infinitely less than them. Someone who should be seen as a true hero
 

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