That is hypothetical. Nothing like that has happened. Look at the published figures.Yes a woman will remain but if number of woman increase in community by religious conversion , won't it increase birth rate ?
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That is hypothetical. Nothing like that has happened. Look at the published figures.Yes a woman will remain but if number of woman increase in community by religious conversion , won't it increase birth rate ?
Please don't teach me economics. It is also a difficult proposition to teach you that a country's development increases sharply due to education.From taxes , but we are already in budget deficit , you want to increase our deficit ??? Are you that worse at economics
Not at all. You have yourself pointed out that there is a police procedure. That procedure is not for fatwas, it is for hate speech. That is applicable to Hindus and to Muslims.No why ? If you don't support those fatwa calling for murder of someone , it should be a issue to be raked up and you should also raise concern
Who said so? The figures show the opposite. If you have a different view, show the evidence.Yes a woman will remain but if number of woman increase in community by religious conversion , won't it increase birth rate ?
And for your info , muslim women Do have more children compared to a Hindu women , isn't it a exploitation of females
Yes. It's a pure agenda push, nothing else. The sense of outrage is understandable - visuals are a powerful medium.@Jackdaws
Any comments? That is, over and above your observation that the vast majority of Indians did not know about this.
As a film, it is a film. We may like it, we may dislike it, we may be deeply moved by it. It remains a film.Yes. It's a pure agenda push, nothing else. The sense of outrage is understandable - visuals are a powerful medium.
What's not kosher is the Govt. endorsing it and using state machinery to push its agenda.
What happened in the erstwhile Kingdom before independence has no bearing on the Republic. The Republic of India can't be held responsible for the Jallianwala Bagh massacre or hanging Bhagat Singh. The Kingdom of J&K thru Maharaja was a British protectorate.As a film, it is a film. We may like it, we may dislike it, we may be deeply moved by it. It remains a film.
What has been done to it is to turn a human tragedy into a weapon of war.
What has also been done is to cast into shade the much older genocide (in the real sense) in Jammu, and the bleeding casualties in the Vale. These will now always be met by the easily influenced students of social media and the world of films, exclaiming, "But what about....."
The Kashmiri Muslims lost any moral standing in their demands after this happened because they were never fighting for Kashmiris but they were fighting for their religious beliefs.
Regarding Tamils in Lanka - from the few conversations I've had with Lankan Tamils - the LTTE had almost 100% of the Lankan Tamils - they were very driven by the idea of the Tamil Eelam irrespective of gender, age and socioeconomic status. The only exception was what the Lankans call "Indian Tamils" who have been there for 3-4 generations and were brought by the Brits to work there. Muralidharan the great off-spinner is what is called an "Indian Tamil" on Lanka.I have one issue I'd like to know more on from your perspective and @Joe Shearer et al.
How many % wise do you venture were supportive of it to collectivise like this on the whole?
Certain numerous foul things you need only 10% extreme/vocal enough....and then how do you divvy up complicity of the remaining 90% etc.
Did Tamil grievances, taken to extreme by "Tigers" (including forced eviction, terrorism and murder of minority groups...in many ways paralleling the K. pandit story) become 100% complicit to the latter?
Consider how Lanka then over long time...."resolved" this. What are the parallels there too for how India resolved/resolving it? What are the contexts before the extreme bad surfaced like it did..... why did it all need to happen the way it did?
Not to fall into the trap of those idiots who can't see what is in front of them, and under their noses, I do want to point out that today, 100% of the people in the Valley want to lead normal lives, as some of them have seen in TV shows, and in personal visits down to the plains.It is difficult to put a number in Kashmir - because it would have been different in Kargil, Ladakh, Jammu then say in Srinagar or Baramula. But in the valley itself in the first phase in the late 80s / early 90s - the support for this "azaadi" amongst Kashmiri Muslims was at almost 100%. Again, this is a only in the Valley
This is precisely my fear; before the performance in Taiwan, the Chinese might try a dress rehearsal in Ladakh/Spiti & Lahaul/Ngari Prefecture - Pithoragarh/ Chumbi Valley/Arunachal Pradesh, with any one target or in any combination.
I am very reluctant to put numbers to it, because there is no earthly way in which the true opinion of a Kashmiri (=resident of the Vale) can be ascertained.
Regarding Tamils in Lanka - from the few conversations I've had with Lankan Tamils - the LTTE had almost 100% of the Lankan Tamils - they were very driven by the idea of the Tamil Eelam irrespective of gender, age and socioeconomic status. The only exception was what the Lankans call "Indian Tamils" who have been there for 3-4 generations and were brought by the Brits to work there. Muralidharan the great off-spinner is what is called an "Indian Tamil" on Lanka.
It is difficult to put a number in Kashmir - because it would have been different in Kargil, Ladakh, Jammu then say in Srinagar or Baramula. But in the valley itself in the first phase in the late 80s / early 90s - the support for this "azaadi" amongst Kashmiri Muslims was at almost 100%. Again, this is a only in the Valley
The LTTE’s principal problem was its finite manpower base. Only 12 percent of Sri Lanka’s population were Lankan Tamils and of these it was believed that only some 300,000 actively supported the LTTE. Moreover, the LTTE’s legitimacy as an organization was declining.
Exactly.... this stuff is incredibly complicated stuff I have found (things close to me and those I have gotten into since of this nature).
I'm not talking about support for "Azaadi" (whatever that even meant and means to each Kashmiri)....Im precisely referring to the support to brutality towards the Pandits...and any defenceless person in general.
Maybe you are also confusing this same thing on what I am precisely asking about the Tamils of Sri Lanka vis a vis the LTTE (i.e final full support to the brutalities on defenceless people....when cognisance on this was established commensurately).
Consider what this one says (its not the only one):
300,000 / 2 million = ?%
That % is enough to extend seamlessly and concretely?
How many Tamils (NOT Indian Tamils) lived in colombo (originally of own volition/legacy or forced to move there by LTTE and proxies) in say the 80s/90s/00s do you think?...esp when you add the Moors in?
They were fervent LTTE supporters (given they are not in the LTTE controlled area which is surely an important reference to have)?
What was their overall and sustained ability to go on with their lives like (with large sinhala majority near/around them) during this period of grave LTTE terrorism?
...and why was that?
Some day (if you want more perspective) go ask a wise Turk about the number of Kurds living in Istanbul...past and present....during the worst episodes of the story even.
Read this in depth when you have time if you will (written in 2000 near the apex of LTTE territory control):
Welcome to UTHRJ
Sri Lanka, human rights, Jaffna, LTTE, Tamil Eelam, Eelam, armed groups, uthr, uthrj, Rajani, Thiranagama, child soldiers, suicide, Prabaharan, Vellupillai, armed conflict, civil war, Rajan, Hoole, Tamils, Singhalese, Buddhist, Sinhalese, Sinhala, Thamil, EPRLF, EROS, PLOT,TELO, Army...web.archive.org
Murdered in 1989, what was her story?
Rajani Thiranagama - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So I ask again, were ALL (or even a plurality) the Tamils of Sri Lanka assuredly supportive of and/or complicit in the heinous actions of LTTE? (Especially as these actions reached them over time past the info-barriers and doctrination methods LTTE put up)
You say you spoke to a few lankan tamils.....was it enough to form your impression?
How many Lankan Tamils do you think I have talked to?...in the mother tongue....and was that enough for the impression I formed?
You know how many times this kind of convo has happened on my end in foreign shores with surface headline/impression types?
Oh you are Indian?
Yes.
Where in India?
I'm Tamil
OHHH...hehe, Tamil Tigers
*bites lip*...(no)
- Right from fairly young age tbh...I had to deal with this BS.
How actions of so few indelibly have stained the whole lot of us in eyes of all too many...
I always wondered how many Kashmiris also have to live with same thing ...always having to explain, having to be on the defensive....and seem like a terrorist to someone when you explain the other side of things...
It helps and heals?.... or harms?
Within those that are (whatever the hypothetical % is) ....How many (further) get held hostage or have to make do with complexes and syndromes formed by a web of extremism permeating around them?
i.e is it purely a voluntary fair decision making to assign complicity in this nebulous area?....with grievances in the head resting as they do as well in however many?
You seem to think there is some easy answer to this to collectively apportion blame on the entirety....like you deeply lived among and surveyed such people.
This misunderstanding is the exact main thing that often fed and feeds into agnihotri's psyche (or its emboldening, acceptance and normalisation) and the central-chauvinism "majoritarian might makes right" ego at large that props it up.
i.e what takes larger proportions there (compared to diverse individuals)...of narratives of simple blunt problems (of the whole) needing simple blunt solutions (on the whole).
If you are truly interested in this subject at large.....you will also have to do a deep delve into Ireland* w.r.t what extremist-complicity actually was on all sides involved.
It is very easy to reductively split the entire thing into orange order vs extreme sinn feinn ...and only cherry pick and weight the worst episodes of both on the larger population.
But you would be wrong to do so.
Easy answers are generally the wrong answers (copied or learned only by rote)....hence why the need for "show your work".
What was the proper, fair and rational answer for Kashmir post 1948?....remains the main question rather than insert into a small slice.
======================================================================
*As much as orange order et al. tried/tries vis a vis sinn feinn et al, is there today severe bloody revolt in derry and other areas of N. Eire?...given the context there that has precipitated such in the past?...and the memories still fresh about it?
Why? Whats changed? People get weary over time you know...."with their tanks and their bombs and their bombs and their guns...in your head, in your head they are fighting..." as Dolores expressed...
I think her other great song "do you have to let it linger" is even deeper/darker/haunting one in the end than it may outwardly may seem...
Can any feeling be turned on and off like a lightbulb?
But many many people do understand such things subconsciously in the end.... that is often all too easy to dismiss with enough distance away from them....
You have to give every population of the world benefit of this doubt in the end....especially if you have given it to your own to begin with.
Brilliant note.Exactly.... this stuff is incredibly complicated stuff I have found (things close to me and those I have gotten into since of this nature).
I'm not talking about support for "Azaadi" (whatever that even meant and means to each Kashmiri)....Im precisely referring to the support to brutality towards the Pandits...and any defenceless person in general.
Maybe you are also confusing this same thing on what I am precisely asking about the Tamils of Sri Lanka vis a vis the LTTE (i.e final full support to the brutalities on defenceless people....when cognisance on this was established commensurately).
Consider what this one says (its not the only one):
300,000 / 2 million = ?%
That % is enough to extend seamlessly and concretely?
How many Tamils (NOT Indian Tamils) lived in colombo (originally of own volition/legacy or forced to move there by LTTE and proxies) in say the 80s/90s/00s do you think?...esp when you add the Moors in?
They were fervent LTTE supporters (given they are not in the LTTE controlled area which is surely an important reference to have)?
What was their overall and sustained ability to go on with their lives like (with large sinhala majority near/around them) during this period of grave LTTE terrorism?
...and why was that?
Some day (if you want more perspective) go ask a wise Turk about the number of Kurds living in Istanbul...past and present....during the worst episodes of the story even.
Read this in depth when you have time if you will (written in 2000 near the apex of LTTE territory control):
Welcome to UTHRJ
Sri Lanka, human rights, Jaffna, LTTE, Tamil Eelam, Eelam, armed groups, uthr, uthrj, Rajani, Thiranagama, child soldiers, suicide, Prabaharan, Vellupillai, armed conflict, civil war, Rajan, Hoole, Tamils, Singhalese, Buddhist, Sinhalese, Sinhala, Thamil, EPRLF, EROS, PLOT,TELO, Army...web.archive.org
Murdered in 1989, what was her story?
Rajani Thiranagama - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So I ask again, were ALL (or even a plurality) the Tamils of Sri Lanka assuredly supportive of and/or complicit in the heinous actions of LTTE? (Especially as these actions reached them over time past the info-barriers and doctrination methods LTTE put up)
You say you spoke to a few lankan tamils.....was it enough to form your impression?
How many Lankan Tamils do you think I have talked to?...in the mother tongue....and was that enough for the impression I formed?
You know how many times this kind of convo has happened on my end in foreign shores with surface headline/impression types?
Oh you are Indian?
Yes.
Where in India?
I'm Tamil
OHHH...hehe, Tamil Tigers
*bites lip*...(no)
- Right from fairly young age tbh...I had to deal with this BS.
How actions of so few indelibly have stained the whole lot of us in eyes of all too many...
I always wondered how many Kashmiris also have to live with same thing ...always having to explain, having to be on the defensive....and seem like a terrorist to someone when you explain the other side of things...
It helps and heals?.... or harms?
Within those that are (whatever the hypothetical % is) ....How many (further) get held hostage or have to make do with complexes and syndromes formed by a web of extremism permeating around them?
i.e is it purely a voluntary fair decision making to assign complicity in this nebulous area?....with grievances in the head resting as they do as well in however many?
You seem to think there is some easy answer to this to collectively apportion blame on the entirety....like you deeply lived among and surveyed such people.
This misunderstanding is the exact main thing that often fed and feeds into agnihotri's psyche (or its emboldening, acceptance and normalisation) and the central-chauvinism "majoritarian might makes right" ego at large that props it up.
i.e what takes larger proportions there (compared to diverse individuals)...of narratives of simple blunt problems (of the whole) needing simple blunt solutions (on the whole).
If you are truly interested in this subject at large.....you will also have to do a deep delve into Ireland* w.r.t what extremist-complicity actually was on all sides involved.
It is very easy to reductively split the entire thing into orange order vs extreme sinn feinn ...and only cherry pick and weight the worst episodes of both on the larger population.
But you would be wrong to do so.
Easy answers are generally the wrong answers (copied or learned only by rote)....hence why the need for "show your work".
What was the proper, fair and rational answer for Kashmir post 1948?....remains the main question rather than insert into a small slice.
======================================================================
*As much as orange order et al. tried/tries vis a vis sinn feinn et al, is there today severe bloody revolt in derry and other areas of N. Eire?...given the context there that has precipitated such in the past?...and the memories still fresh about it?
Why? Whats changed? People get weary over time you know...."with their tanks and their bombs and their bombs and their guns...in your head, in your head they are fighting..." as Dolores expressed...
I think her other great song "do you have to let it linger" is even deeper/darker/haunting one in the end than it may outwardly may seem...
Can any feeling be turned on and off like a lightbulb?
But many many people do understand such things subconsciously in the end.... that is often all too easy to dismiss with enough distance away from them....
You have to give every population of the world benefit of this doubt in the end....especially if you have given it to your own to begin with.