TR Defence Exports & Updates

[TR_123456]

I don't think we have much chance because of the current government structure in Argentina.

You think Argentina has a $1 billion for an LPD(Damen)?

 

[dBSPL]

You think Argentina has a $1 billion for an LPD(Damen)?

I don't know how difficult the Argentine defense budget is due to the economic situation, but I guess if there is a navy tender, there must be more or less financing efforts. Although the impact of the IMF and other creditors on the overall budget is a separate issue. Also, I haven't followed the current situation of Damen, but they have recently been experiencing significant financial difficulties, maybe - if they are going to be ambitious in this tender - there might be something with the Dutch state in terms of financing, but as I said, these are just my out loud thoughts based on your question.

But this question raised another, more important question in my mind. When it comes to substituting the service or capacity of a Turkish defense company/systems supplier with a western counterpart, I think the fact that the first issue is still the dramatic price difference is one of the issues that we should focus on at some point.

I am not only talking about hull manufacturing, but also design, indeginous classification, equiping and arming, which involves the participation of more than ten defense electronics, hardware and software giants, starting with Havelsan and Aselsan, and a whole technology-intensive system. Here, we need to increase the profitability of our companies by increasing our credit financing capabilities. For example, a joint defense exim bank can be established with the participation of the sovereign wealth funds of a few friendly countries. An investment in this area would strengthen the competitiveness of the Turkish defense industry in exports in a much healthier way than price gouging or concessions that are not granted anywhere else. Because the systems we are talking about are state-of-the-art systems with design, production and testing processes that meet the highest military standards. Under normal circumstances, our recent offers to a number of countries are so comprehensive that they cannot be bought with money.

 

[TR_123456]

I don't know how difficult the Argentine defense budget is due to the economic situation, but I guess if there is a navy tender, there must be more or less financing efforts. Although the impact of the IMF and other creditors on the overall budget is a separate issue. Also, I haven't followed the current situation of Damen, but they have recently been experiencing significant financial difficulties, maybe - if they are going to be ambitious in this tender - there might be something with the Dutch state in terms of financing, but as I said, these are just my out loud thoughts based on your question.

But this question raised another, more important question in my mind. When it comes to substituting the service or capacity of a Turkish defense company/systems supplier with a western counterpart, I think the fact that the first issue is still the dramatic price difference is one of the issues that we should focus on at some point.

I am not only talking about hull manufacturing, but also design, indeginous classification, equiping and arming, which involves the participation of more than ten defense electronics, hardware and software giants, starting with Havelsan and Aselsan, and a whole technology-intensive system. Here, we need to increase the profitability of our companies by increasing our credit financing capabilities. For example, a joint defense exim bank can be established with the participation of the sovereign wealth funds of a few friendly countries. An investment in this area would strengthen the competitiveness of the Turkish defense industry in exports in a much healthier way than price gouging or concessions that are not granted anywhere else. Because the systems we are talking about are state-of-the-art systems with design, production and testing processes that meet the highest military standards. Under normal circumstances, our recent offers to a number of countries are so comprehensive that they cannot be bought with money.

And not to forget,there is also the issue of the UK trying everything to block such a deal with Argentina(Falklands).
South-Korea could be the better option but i dont know if it can provide all systems domesticly.
Argentina cant buy military equipment from that many countries,see the Argentinian Airforce.
It could however turn to china but not with the current leader.
So,i would say despite everything Türkiye is still an option.

 

[boredaf]

So,i would say despite everything Türkiye is still an option.

But should we want to be?

I would argue that we shouldn't be anywhere close this tender because UK is (right now and for now) one of the friendlier Western countries, their lobbying might help us get Eurofighters, if we ever face trouble with engines of any kind (whether it is during development or purchasing it from foreign countries), RR is one of the few companies that could bail us out. While they might not be as prolific, they have their own defence industry that could build their own systems and subsystems which could come in handy in a pinch.

And, we export about 10 billions worth of stuff to UK, no need to jeopardise that kind of trade relationship either.

 

[Strong AI]

ASELSAN has signed export contracts of 44.4 Million USD with its clients in Asia-Pasific region to supply RCWS for land platforms and RCWS, radar, inertial navigation, friend or foe recognition systems and electronic warfare suite for naval platforms.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1837049096541991338

 

[Saithan]

But should we want to be?

I would argue that we shouldn't be anywhere close this tender because UK is (right now and for now) one of the friendlier Western countries, their lobbying might help us get Eurofighters, if we ever face trouble with engines of any kind (whether it is during development or purchasing it from foreign countries), RR is one of the few companies that could bail us out. While they might not be as prolific, they have their own defence industry that could build their own systems and subsystems which could come in handy in a pinch.

And, we export about 10 billions worth of stuff to UK, no need to jeopardise that kind of trade relationship either.

I bet that is exactly why the UK is being friendly with Türkiye. The Good Cop, Bad Cop routine. with the west. Someone needs to exert effort to keep Türkiye in the western influence while every other fukker kicks and treats us as dirt.

I say we should go for it if Argentina picks us. Because we can't live our life at others mercy, or their whims.

 

[Sanchez]

ASELSAN has signed export contracts of 44.4 Million USD with its clients in Asia-Pasific region to supply RCWS for land platforms and RCWS, radar, inertial navigation, friend or foe recognition systems and electronic warfare suite for naval platforms.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1837049096541991338

I wonder if this is a confirmation for previously unannounced deals like Gökdeniz for Philippines or something new and whether it's for multiple countries.

 

[Strong AI]

I bet that is exactly why the UK is being friendly with Türkiye. The Good Cop, Bad Cop routine. with the west. Someone needs to exert effort to keep Türkiye in the western influence while every other fukker kicks and treats us as dirt.

I say we should go for it if Argentina picks us. Because we can't live our life at others mercy, or their whims.

To add to this, according to Temel Kotil, BAE Systems never gave the agreed/expected support for KAAN. I would say never trust the Brits, if there is a opportunity, take it.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://defence-blog.com/turkish-armored-vehicle-manufacturer-opens-new-facility-in-uk/#

Nurol Makina is setting up a production unit in UK to produce specialised armoured vehicles for UK and export markets.
Production is expected to start before the end of the year.
Two main vehicles to kick start the factory will be Ejder and NMS-L the heli transportable armoured 4x4.
The factory will employ 150 highly skilled people and will be a good injection to local economy.
This is a nice bit of news after Canik‘s purchase of AEI Systems in 2022. It shows the good collaboration between the two countries in matters of defence with respect to cross fertilisation of know how and cheaper production facilities, through track proven and tested equipment.

 

[Sanchez]

They've been working on this for the last 2 or so years. Acquiring AEI was a part of it as well. Factory was in the works for some time. Vehicles have UK powerpacks and turrets will probably UK too, so limited Turkish involvement, but hopefully a great prestige win for Nurol. If they win it, it will be their 3rd NATO export customer after Hungary and Estonia.

Gotta say, they really read the internal dynamics correctly there. They used the correct branding, got local political support from West Midlands mps, trusted local names for managers and amplified the "creating local jobs" part.

As it's lacking, gonna try to add some context. UK currently have multiple programs to replace its current armored vehicles. Up to 5 to 8 thousand vehicles from UGVs to 40 ton AFVs are expected to be ordered. NMS-L(Light Protected Mobility) And Ejder/Dragon(Medium Protected Mobility Vehicle) are vying for medium class vehicles with multiple variants on offer. Nurol also showcased their Dragon Ambulance version, designed by a UK firm this week. Nothing is clear yet, as the new Labour government is initiated a strategic review and program won't go forward until the white paper is released.

DVD 2024 - Nurol Makina UK expands horizon with three new UK products and factory - EDR Magazine

Nurol Makina UK has made a strong stand at the Defence Vehicle Dynamics (DVD) 2024 event that started on the 18th September in the UK.

www.edrmagazine.eu

British Army mobility programmes - a strategy to replace legacy equipment

The British Army intends to embark on a number of procurement programmes in the mobility sector, which include the Light Tactical Mobility Platform (LTMP) Light and the LTMP Medium.

euro-sd.com

As the programs are huge multiple contenders from all over the world are expected to join. I'm actually surprised Otokar and even BMC didn't show interest. I'm of course not including FNSS as their parent company Nurol looks at European market.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787485503618453605

 

[Saithan]

They've been working on this for the last 2 or so years. Acquiring AEI was a part of it as well. Factory was in the works for some time. Vehicles have UK powerpacks and turrets will probably UK too, so limited Turkish involvement, but hopefully a great prestige win for Nurol. If they win it, it will be their 3rd NATO export customer after Hungary and Estonia.

Gotta say, they really read the internal dynamics correctly there. They used the correct branding, got local political support from West Midlands mps, trusted local names for managers and amplified the "creating local jobs" part.

As it's lacking, gonna try to add some context. UK currently have multiple programs to replace its current armored vehicles. Up to 5 to 8 thousand vehicles from UGVs to 40 ton AFVs are expected to be ordered. NMS-L(Light Protected Mobility) And Ejder/Dragon(Medium Protected Mobility Vehicle) are vying for medium class vehicles with multiple variants on offer. Nurol also showcased their Dragon Ambulance version, designed by a UK firm this week. Nothing is clear yet, as the new Labour government is initiated a strategic review and program won't go forward until the white paper is released.

DVD 2024 - Nurol Makina UK expands horizon with three new UK products and factory - EDR Magazine

Nurol Makina UK has made a strong stand at the Defence Vehicle Dynamics (DVD) 2024 event that started on the 18th September in the UK.

www.edrmagazine.eu

British Army mobility programmes - a strategy to replace legacy equipment

The British Army intends to embark on a number of procurement programmes in the mobility sector, which include the Light Tactical Mobility Platform (LTMP) Light and the LTMP Medium.

euro-sd.com

As the programs are huge multiple contenders from all over the world are expected to join. I'm actually surprised Otokar and even BMC didn't show interest. I'm of course not including FNSS as their parent company Nurol looks at European market.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787485503618453605

But do you think that there will be an opportunity to add some stuff that are produced in Türkiye to the delivery. Granted it lives up to the quality standards and such.

IMO that would be a real win-win situation. Otherwise it'll be a company in UK that can at any given time be nationalized or politically forced to change hands to UK.

Also I consider that there might be some Turks in UK that might be interested in working in the sector that could get employed

 

[Saithan]

Indonesia seeks to purchase Turkish warships, submarines - Türkiye News

The Indonesian navy commander has expressed intention to procure additional warships from Türkiye, with proposals for submarines also on the table with Ankara.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

Uh... did we sell off any of our vessels being built ? FFBNW being redirected to export.... Is that possible ? Delivery timeline being 25-26 is a wee bit close imo....

 

[Sanchez]

Indonesia seeks to purchase Turkish warships, submarines - Türkiye News

The Indonesian navy commander has expressed intention to procure additional warships from Türkiye, with proposals for submarines also on the table with Ankara.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

Uh... did we sell off any of our vessels being built ? FFBNW being redirected to export.... Is that possible ? Delivery timeline being 25-26 is a wee bit close imo....

Maybe first Hisars being soldto Indonesia is a possibility.

 

[Saithan]

Maybe first Hisars being soldto Indonesia is a possibility.

I was actually thinking that could be the reason for making the FFBNW vessels in the first place. I was thinking it was like a LEGO OPV/Naval vessel made ready, not a bad strategy for export tbh, and the friendly countries would not have to wait for too long. However the export permit for the engines would and will always be a hindrance.

Could it be that when order is received we get the export permit for engines in 1 year or less and spend 1 year to refurbish it to what the customer wants ?

 

[Sanchez]

I was actually thinking that could be the reason for making the FFBNW vessels in the first place. I was thinking it was like a LEGO OPV/Naval vessel made ready, not a bad strategy for export tbh, and the friendly countries would not have to wait for too long. However the export permit for the engines would and will always be a hindrance.

Could it be that when order is received we get the export permit for engines in 1 year or less and spend 1 year to refurbish it to what the customer wants ?

I don't think the FFBNW setup of Hisars(with SAMs, ASMs) is that different than what the Hisars we will mostly operate will carry to be honest. We are already building 8 Istifs. I don't think the navy is interested in a slower Istif with worse radar to make up numbers. Hisars will still mostly be OPVs and not light frigates. Maybe 1-2 full ships to test the load and offer it for export.