TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Zafer]

So, maybe @Zafer should start a karaok users map

Why not, but it should get exciting before we start watching.

 

[Afif]

Karaok showed excellent performance in tests. It has up to 2.5km in top attack mode and a 4km ballistic flight range. Interest in Karaok is really high. Multiple contracts already signed or in the signing process.

Pakistan to acquire anti-tank guided weapon systems from Turkish maker, co-production also on cards


New Delhi: Cementing defence ties further, Pakistan is in the process of buying anti-tank guided weapon systems (ATGWs) from its long-term ally Turkey, ThePrint has learnt.

According to sources in the defence and security establishment, Islamabad is also considering co-production of the ATGWs along with the Turkish weapons manufacturer Roketsan.

Just a moment…

Edit- Note that print is a credible source.

 

[Agha Sher]

Pakistan to acquire anti-tank guided weapon systems from Turkish maker, co-production also on cards


New Delhi: Cementing defence ties further, Pakistan is in the process of buying anti-tank guided weapon systems (ATGWs) from its long-term ally Turkey, ThePrint has learnt.

According to sources in the defence and security establishment, Islamabad is also considering co-production of the ATGWs along with the Turkish weapons manufacturer Roketsan.

Just a moment…

Edit- Note that print is a credible source.

Would that be UMTAS or KARAOK?

 

[Afif]

Would that be UMTAS or KARAOK?

I think neither, probably Omtas.

 

[Afif]

French are surprisingly ahead compared to other European countries.

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

Akbaba also mentions Karaok sale to Poland being already signed. Haven't seen anything regarding this so just keeping it as a possibility for now.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1728751818455580870

what is that vehicle used as a target?

 

[Sanchez]

what is that vehicle used as a target?

Looks like an M48 Patton with original 90mm gun.

 

[Kartal1]

what is that vehicle used as a target?

Some say M47.

 

[Zafer]

Karaok countries; the world is a lonely place.
@Ripley

 

[Kartal1]

Karaok countries; the world is a lonely place.
@Ripley

View attachment 63363

I hope we can add Poland to that list soon.

 

[Ripley]

Karaok countries; the world is a lonely place.
@Ripley

View attachment 63363

Thank you @Zafer

 

[Afif]

@Zafer I think it would be more inclusive if you make the map about Turkish ATGM in general. Some countries may prefer one over another. So, Karaok, Omtas and Umtas all would be included.

 

[Zafer]

@Zafer I think it would be more inclusive if you make the map about Turkish ATGM in general. Some countries may prefer one over another. So, Karaok, Omtas and Umtas all would be included.

If you guys provide the data I will do the charting.

 

[neosinan]

Am I the only one who think this isnt a great idea?

This is turning into Oryx which was great tool for Semi competent intelligence agencies around the world. We shouldn't have such information easily available, Yes they can make find same information with a google search But We are giving them easy location to track this information. @Zafer

 

[Bogeyman]

Am I the only one who think this isnt a great idea?

This is turning into Oryx which was great tool for Semi competent intelligence agencies around the world. We shouldn't have such information easily available, Yes they can make find same information with a google search But We are giving them easy location to track this information. @Zafer

For them, basic information is not interesting. Because they will want the details of the agreements. You cannot find the details of such agreements in the forums. In forums, at most, there are little crumbs that leak from the background. Nothing more. This does not satisfy them.

 

[Zafer]

Am I the only one who think this isnt a great idea?

This is turning into Oryx which was great tool for Semi competent intelligence agencies around the world. We shouldn't have such information easily available, Yes they can make find same information with a google search But We are giving them easy location to track this information. @Zafer

I don't mean to be catalogueing many things. Personally I would only chart a few impactful and iconic products that make a success story for all of us to watch. A manpad tank killer is one such weapon but platform launched ones are not that iconic. Karaok has not made a succes story yet but we want to give it some cheering on a first export sales even before it hit mass production.

 

[boredaf]

Am I the only one who think this isnt a great idea?

This is turning into Oryx which was great tool for Semi competent intelligence agencies around the world. We shouldn't have such information easily available, Yes they can make find same information with a google search But We are giving them easy location to track this information. @Zafer

Mate, no intelligence agency worth worrying about is going to need to look up anything on the Internet, and nothing worthwhile for them is going to be freely shared here or anywhere else, unless it is a serious leak. No need to get paranoid for simple things like export maps.

 

[Sanchez]

Mate, no intelligence agency worth worrying about is going to need to look up anything on the Internet, and nothing worthwhile for them is going to be freely shared here or anywhere else, unless it is a serious leak. No need to get paranoid for simple things like export maps.

That in itself is not an important issue. These are Government to Government(G2G) deals and are usually publicly shared. No issue with sharing these kind of stuff. As I've said in the past tho, subcomponents with foreign suppliers being made public is an issue. A subcomponent supplier of Roketsan may be buying Dutch made smaller sub components in bulk from a Dutch company to make its own sub components to be used in MAM, this being publicly shared is not good. The small firm may share this Twitter account with 600 followers and it most likely will be okay for a time, until the day someone really looks at things.

Most stuff in military industries nowadays is dual use. You can use it to make an ambulance or a flying bomb, a game console or a missile targeting system. Unless an embargo is underway, people just want to do business and will turn their heads unless forced to by public pressure. Which is where lobbying groups of diasporas come in. That is a much bigger issue. Canada wasn't forced to issue an embargo on arms sales to Turkey until an Azerbaijani TB2 that was originally built for Turkish Navy was lost; its wreck was photographed and collected by Armenian army and then made public to be used.

 

[Bogeyman]

That in itself is not an important issue. These Government to government deals and are usually publicly shared. No issue with sharing these kind of stuff. As I've said in the past tho, subcomponents with foreign suppliers being made public is an issue. A subcomponent supplier of Roketsan may be buying Dutch made smaller sub components in bulk from a Dutch company to make its own sub components to be used in MAM, this being publicly shared is good.

Most stuff in military industries nowadays is dual use. You can use it to make an ambulance or a flying bomb, a game console or a missile targeting system. Unless an embargo is underway, people just want to do business and will turn their heads unless forced to by public pressure. Which where lobbying groups of diasporas come in. That is a much bigger issue. Canada wasn't forced to issue an embargo on arms sales to Turkey until an Azerbaijani TB2 that was originally addressed to Turkish Navy was lost; its wreck was photographed and collected by Armenian army and then made public to be used.

There are "think tanks" dedicated to this work. For example, there was a think tank that researched China's universities working on defense industry and military issues. They're the ones we really need to pay attention to. They investigate everything down to the smallest detail. I don't think they will take this forum into consideration at the moment.

 

[Sanchez]

There are "think tanks" dedicated to this work. For example, there was a think tank that researched China's universities working on defense industry and military issues. They're the ones we really need to pay attention to. They investigate everything down to the smallest detail. I don't think they will take this forum into consideration at the moment.

Yes. A university from Chengdu working with PLA is passing knowledge and is expected. But when you make a list of these and a pattern starts to emerge where you see that an absolute majority of Chinese defence companies headhunt Chinese students that studied in US and European universities while in an exchange program, a list is formed. And when the next time policymakers decide to go hard, bye bye to grants and even accepting Chinese students altogether. And from their point, can you really blame them? Canada was legally in its rights to embargo Turkey, because we broke the export agreement by suppling that camera to Azerbaijan. they however probably would like very much if that wreck wasn't made public in the first place and if their hands weren't tied. Such is life.