TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360164245535653888

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360164537090142209

Preparation for the locally built Ada-Class in Ukraine at the Okean Shipyard will start in June.
According to the marketing director of the shipyard the number of ships to be built for Ukraine supposedly are 4 or 5.

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360655254795276293

 

[what]

Delivery ceremony of Ejder Yalçın for Hungary Land Forces.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359932121465372674

Apparently Hungary is going to receive 10 + 40 and then joint production with Hungary, Rheinmetall for another 300 that will be based on these. I forgot where I read it, it was a serious paper not some random twitter account.

 

[Kartal1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361824641250123783

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1361824641250123783

Good morning

 

[azaher77]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362719209130782721

Ukraine will pay 137 million dollars for the first of the MİLGEM-Ada

 

[Yasar_TR]

So they are paying 137 million for an empty shell! Engines, power generators, radars, missiles and weapons will be added in Ukraine.
Apart from the shape of it, nothing of it will be ADA class!

 

[Nutuk]

I've seen $173 million somewhere else, one of the two must have switched the 7 and the 3

 

[Anmdt]

I've seen $173 million somewhere else, one of the two must have switched the 7 and the 3

There is a misunderstanding especially arisen from Ukranian sources.
The ship won't be delivered as an "empty shell"
It will be equipped in Turkey, with anything except to be provided by Ukraine, and integration of Ukranian systems will be conducted by Turkish personnel in Ukraine (excluded from that budget).

The amount also excludes any ToT, production packages-drawings, training of personnel/engineers, integration of ukrainian systems. The price won't be such low if Ukrainians were receiveing production plans and blue prints or any training regarding to the construction.

It includes :
-steel construction, piping
-propulsion systems (if ukranians insist for their gas turbines it also excludes integration and installation fees for that particular choice we still didn't hear about anything from GE thus it may indicate Ukrainian gas turbine) ,
-CMS,
-Some of the electronics (consoles, data centers, ship management system etc)
-CIWS (less likely, they seem to request oerlikon but can be procured by Turkey within the budget)
-furnitures and machinery

They also insists for Ukranian radar &sensor integration (search radar, navigation radar, FCR, sonar) this is also excluded from the price.

Ada class is known to cost somewhere around 240-260M. Removing RAM relieves 30M , Harpoon 10M, Torpedoes 5, Furhermore Aselsan Hizir might be removed along with active sonar (active sonar will be provided by Ukraine) and without Smart-S and Aselsan AKR the price equals to somewhere around 150-180. The margin is wide because price of some Turkish systems are not known.

 

[Turko]

There is a misunderstanding especially arisen from Ukranian sources.
The ship won't be delivered as an "empty shell"
It will be equipped in Turkey, with anything except to be provided by Ukraine, and integration of Ukranian systems will be conducted by Turkish personnel in Ukraine (excluded from that budget).

The amount also excludes any ToT, production packages-drawings, training of personnel/engineers, integration of ukrainian systems. The price won't be such low if Ukrainians were receiveing production plans and blue prints or any training regarding to the construction.

It includes :
-steel construction, piping
-propulsion systems (if ukranians insist for their gas turbines it also excludes integration and installation fees for that particular choice we still didn't hear about anything from GE thus it may indicate Ukrainian gas turbine) ,
-CMS,
-Some of the electronics (consoles, data centers, ship management system etc)
-CIWS (less likely, they seem to request oerlikon but can be procured by Turkey within the budget)
-furnitures and machinery

They also insists for Ukranian radar &sensor integration (search radar, navigation radar, FCR, sonar) this is also excluded from the price.

Ada class is known to cost somewhere around 240-260M. Removing RAM relieves 30M , Harpoon 10M, Torpedoes 5, Furhermore Aselsan Hizir might be removed along with active sonar (active sonar will be provided by Ukraine) and without Smart-S and Aselsan AKR the price equals to somewhere around 150-180. The margin is wide because price of some Turkish systems are not known.

This sophisticated collaboration between two sides shows how professional the two sides are. it becomes a real joint project. It'll bring huge prestige .

 

[Yasar_TR]

Not just a collaboration but know how transfer as well! There must also be a reciprocal TOT from the Ukrainian side regarding certain technologies that we may be lacking. Hence the price of the deal on paper may not reflect the true nature of the cost of complete contract.

 

[Anmdt]

Not just a collaboration but know how transfer as well! There must also be a reciprocal TOT from the Ukrainian side regarding certain technologies that we may be lacking. Hence the price of the deal on paper may not reflect the true nature of the cost of complete contract.

Know-how and ToT is limited or not existing for the first vessel. If it was clear the contract would be signed for entire batch just as it has happened with Pakistani corvette deal.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Know-how and ToT is limited or not existing for the first vessel. If it was clear the contract would be signed for entire batch just as it has happened with Pakistani corvette deal.

Are you sure? Because if the rest of the ships are going to be built in Ukraine with Turkish engineering help, there must have been some form of global contract covering all 4 ships they were talking of building.
If this is not the case and we are building the shell of the first ship then helping them to integrate their own systems and subsequently giving them drawings and specifics of the ship for the remaining vessels, there must have been more money involved or some other reciprocal TOT agreement as payment in kind.
I am sure we will not sell all for the cost of a shell of a ship. According to your calculations the ship is worth 195-215 million without the harpoon, Ram and torpedoes. If they are going to put their own engines (11.4million dollars for LM2500) and power generators and radars as well then it may be as low as 173 million.
So, why should we let them have it at that price all the knowledge and expertise we have gathered on this ship?

BTW I don’t know. But just logically trying to deduce!

 

[Anmdt]

Are you sure? Because if the rest of the ships are going to be built in Ukraine with Turkish engineering help, there must have been some form of global contract covering all 4 ships they were talking of building.
If this is not the case and we are building the shell of the first ship then helping them to integrate their own systems and subsequently giving them drawings and specifics of the ship for the remaining vessels, there must have been more money involved or some other reciprocal TOT agreement as payment in kind.
I am sure we will not sell all for the cost of a shell of a ship. According to your calculations the ship is worth 195-215 million without the harpoon, Ram and torpedoes. If they are going to put their own engines (11.4million dollars for LM2500) and power generators and radars as well then it may be as low as 173 million.
So, why should we let them have it at that price all the knowledge and expertise we have gathered on this ship?

BTW I don’t know. But just logically trying to deduce!

Probably the first ToT will be covering integration of Ukrainian subsystems - sensors and weapons, and it will be billed separately by the independent companies (havelsan, stm) who will carry out these.
And later at least half of te remaining will he built in Turkey and ToT for shipbuilding will be completed meanwhile the shipyard is upgraded to comply with required technology on welding/cutting and tolerance/quality also with security protocols to prevent data leaks ( blue prints will be secured).

@Yasar the ToT particularly will happen here, we might expect several Turkish systems in this platform if collaboration fruits:

Ukrayna Milli Korveti bitirmekte kararlı | SavunmaSanayiST

Ukrayna Savunma Bakanlığı Yardımcısı, Ukrayna'nın yerli korvet projesi 58250’nin inşasına kaldığı yerden devam edilerek, ilk korvetin üretileceğini açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Translation in short: Ukraine plans to complete Project 58250 corvette/frigate within the schedule of Ada class procurement. Earlier there has been rumor of ongoing negotiations between Ukraine and Turkey for asistance to complete project 58250.

I really wonder how Milgem-U will be looking like

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362763960383123459

Export of SOM to Azerbaycan. Need further comfirmation.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362763960383123459

Export of SOM to Azerbaycan. Need further comfirmation.

Exactly! With tr40 fitted , France would be protesting most certainly.
Ktj3200 should be available in the next few months. So it is possible in a few months!

 

[Turko]

Are you sure? Because if the rest of the ships are going to be built in Ukraine with Turkish engineering help, there must have been some form of global contract covering all 4 ships they were talking of building.
If this is not the case and we are building the shell of the first ship then helping them to integrate their own systems and subsequently giving them drawings and specifics of the ship for the remaining vessels, there must have been more money involved or some other reciprocal TOT agreement as payment in kind.
I am sure we will not sell all for the cost of a shell of a ship. According to your calculations the ship is worth 195-215 million without the harpoon, Ram and torpedoes. If they are going to put their own engines (11.4million dollars for LM2500) and power generators and radars as well then it may be as low as 173 million.
So, why should we let them have it at that price all the knowledge and expertise we have gathered on this ship?

BTW I don’t know. But just logically trying to deduce!

İf things are all as you said there must be a reason : "strategic partnership". Ukraine backed Turkey in Libya selling SAMs. Also Ukranian government deports or gives FETÖ members. Also There might be a lot of ToT about rocket engineering.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

I thought Turkey was just helping Ukraine building its warship Project 58250
They have years working on it
Or Ukraine will order Milgem and aslo work with its warship , i mean 2 different projects ?!

 

[Anmdt]

I thought Turkey was just helping Ukraine building its warship Project 58250
They have years working on it
Or Ukraine will order Milgem and aslo work with its warship , i mean 2 different projects ?!

They will purchase 4-6 Ada class and then will switch to 58250.
Probably this has been a more feasible solution than pure 58250 which has been idle for a decade.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Probably the first ToT will be covering integration of Ukrainian subsystems - sensors and weapons, and it will be billed separately by the independent companies (havelsan, stm) who will carry out these.
And later at least half of te remaining will he built in Turkey and ToT for shipbuilding will be completed meanwhile the shipyard is upgraded to comply with required technology on welding/cutting and tolerance/quality also with security protocols to prevent data leaks ( blue prints will be secured).

@Yasar the ToT particularly will happen here, we might expect several Turkish systems in this platform if collaboration fruits:

Ukrayna Milli Korveti bitirmekte kararlı | SavunmaSanayiST

Ukrayna Savunma Bakanlığı Yardımcısı, Ukrayna'nın yerli korvet projesi 58250’nin inşasına kaldığı yerden devam edilerek, ilk korvetin üretileceğini açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Translation in short: Ukraine plans to complete Project 58250 corvette/frigate within the schedule of Ada class procurement. Earlier there has been rumor of ongoing negotiations between Ukraine and Turkey for asistance to complete project 58250.

I really wonder how Milgem-U will be looking like

Thanks for the explanation! This explains the TOT from our end. But we are not just giving this to them though. Are we?
That is what I was trying to get at. There must be something we are getting from them in return.

PS when 4-6 milgemU and same number of 58250 finish, they will have a very good basis for a naval force.