TR Economy & Updates

[dBSPL]

US and its western suppliers arent the only player in semiconductors. We can sway places like Korea and Japan to move their less cutting-edge fabs to Turkish soil. That would be a good point to start buliding expertise and develop the link between Turkish academia and the semiconductor industry in general, which will inevitably lead to domestic breakthroughs.

And if all else fails, there's still China. They might not be in the cutting edge, but they're pretty damn close.

IMHO, the problem is not only about profitability, but also about building the plant and establishing the related machinery and production parks. Especially when you get into areas like photolithography, there are very few organizations that design and manufacture these machines, and 1-2 of them are far ahead of other examples in the world, and all the chip factories in the world use these systems. There's no doubt that Korea is making huge strides in this area, but the semiconductor equipment industry is still very much a non-competitive area because of it's a strategic area with political significance: it's very difficult to move forward without gaining significant political backing on a global scale.

Even just money and state support may not be enough. As in the case of Russia. What I mean here is not the militarily of course, but the consumer market. Examples like Taiwan, Japan and Korea are already countries that the US is supporting to break Chinese pressure on this industry, and more will follow as China increases its pressure on Taiwan. Because as you know, China's policies on the market after Covid created a cold shower effect on the US side.

 

[Baryshx]

IMHO, the problem is not only about profitability, but also about building the plant and establishing the related machinery and production parks. Especially when you get into areas like photolithography, there are very few organizations that design and manufacture these machines, and 1-2 of them are far ahead of other examples in the world, and all the chip factories in the world use these systems. There's no doubt that Korea is making huge strides in this area, but the semiconductor equipment industry is still very much a non-competitive area because of it's a strategic area with political significance: it's very difficult to move forward without gaining significant political backing on a global scale.

Even just money and state support may not be enough. As in the case of Russia. What I mean here is not the militarily of course, but the consumer market. Examples like Taiwan, Japan and Korea are already countries that the US is supporting to break Chinese pressure on this industry, and more will follow as China increases its pressure on Taiwan. Because as you know, China's policies on the market after Covid created a cold shower effect on the US side.

If I were Taiwan, Japan or Korea, I would not invest in Türkiye. Türkiye must first learn and digest democracy and the rule of law. These countries are also withdrawing their existing investments in our country, it has not escaped the eyes of those who follow them.

Our hope is Malaysia. It is also a country at a certain level

 

[uçuyorum]

There will always be external players trying to undermine you. A properly governed country should have a robust economy that can withstand such conditions regardless.

 

[dBSPL]

If I were Taiwan, Japan or Korea, I would not invest in Türkiye. Türkiye must first learn and digest democracy and the rule of law. These countries are also withdrawing their existing investments in our country, it has not escaped the eyes of those who follow them.

Our hope is Malaysia. It is also a country at a certain level

These companies also, use production technology from companies like ASML... In other words, both their market structures and company capital structures, as well as the technological infrastructure that makes this production possible at these volumes, are basically articulated with the Atlantic region. This is why the US can easily move the industry, or at least it thinks so. You either have to have a strategic partnership with the US or with China, which is trying to catch up. It will be a parameter that will change according to who and where you will sell the microchip to be produced. In everycase, the threshold to enter and holding this industry is very high for TR. So it seems wiser to move forward in design and, as you say, to develop strategies through Malaysia. Edit: All microchips for military and aerospace systems should be built-in-house. Above is my humble opinion regarding civilian areas such as consumer electronics, automotive etc.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Iam asking this for fun but what IF the current economic crisis is exacerbated by the West in order to kick Erdogan out and place a more loyal dog in his place since Erdogan has been way out ofnline in recent years?

I mean if they created the 2001 economic crisis to remkve a pain in the ass who was hunting kurds at the time, what prevents them from repeating the same scenario to kick out a pain in the ass who is hunting the kurds today? And at the end, the average joe is the loser

What about when Erdogan put his son in law as a Minister of Finances (Someone definitely not suitable for this position) and when he meddled multiple times in the Central Bank affairs, and god knows what other f***ed up things he did ? Was this also a strategy from the ‘’West’’ ?

 

[B_A]

US and its western suppliers arent the only player in semiconductors. We can sway places like Korea and Japan to move their less cutting-edge fabs to Turkish soil. That would be a good point to start buliding expertise and develop the link between Turkish academia and the semiconductor industry in general, which will inevitably lead to domestic breakthroughs.

And if all else fails, there's still China. They might not be in the cutting edge, but they're pretty damn close.

Taiwan Korean Japan are all American's vessals.

American is forcing them to attack China now,they invested in Communist China before.

 

[Ecderha]

What about when Erdogan put his son in law as a Minister of Finances (Someone definitely not suitable for this position) and when he meddled multiple times in the Central Bank affairs, and god knows what other f***ed up things he did ? Was this also a strategy from the ‘’West’’ ?

Was this also a strategy from the ‘’West’’ ? Yes it is
Example: George Bush family Father and Son.
Father helped the son to be part of many government projects related to Petrol. Actually son able to buy many lands as usa property, showed some statistics that those land will proved crude oil etc.... But it did not happend.
Father help him so much in government related businesses all of them went with bankrupts which were funded by usa government by support of the father Bush.

What h append next joiner decide to use the same father people to start next adventure -> politics and became president using the same Mechanic and people of his Father.

This Bush family made the most bad things for usa and the most brutal and bad things on foreigner countries.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Was this also a strategy from the ‘’West’’ ? Yes it is
Example: George Bush family Father and Son.
Father helped the son to be part of many government projects related to Petrol. Actually son able to buy many lands as usa property, showed some statistics that those land will proved crude oil etc.... But it did not happend.
Father help him so much in government related businesses all of them went with bankrupts which were funded by usa government by support of the father Bush.

What h append next joiner decide to use the same father people to start next adventure -> politics and became president using the same Mechanic and people of his Father.

This Bush family made the most bad things for usa and the most brutal and bad things on foreigner countries.

This is nepotism. Anyone doing that regardless of their position should be put on trial and jailed. People who tolerate such practice should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[B_A]

If I were Taiwan, Japan or Korea, I would not invest in Türkiye. Türkiye must first learn and digest democracy and the rule of law. These countries are also withdrawing their existing investments in our country, it has not escaped the eyes of those who follow them.

Our hope is Malaysia. It is also a country at a certain level

These three were just the colonies of USA

No matter any democracy and the rule of law.

They even invest in Communist China before.

 

[Ecderha]

This is nepotism. Anyone doing that regardless of their position should be put on trial and jailed. People who tolerate such practice should be ashamed of themselves.

"Anyone doing that regardless of their position should be put on trial and jailed." I agree, but we can see that if you are that person and you have power (money, people which are in system in power position), then there is no jail. It is just twisted and stretch in time.

" People who tolerate such practice should be ashamed of themselves." Again agree, but "ashamed" this word do not have weight on people which already changed. We live in world where "Greed" is the goal. We live in world where "Keep Saying Lies" is trigger interest of mass of the people, they like this.


What I am trying to say is that West is doing so many restless and brutal things, but west people try to play blind, deaf and shut-ed mouth. At same time the same people without any knowledge keep talking lies and blame other countries people that, this is not right, this savage, this is corruption etc...............

 

[B_A]

"Anyone doing that regardless of their position should be put on trial and jailed." I agree, but we can see that if you are that person and you have power (money, people which are in system in power position), then there is no jail. It is just twisted and stretch in time.

" People who tolerate such practice should be ashamed of themselves." Again agree, but "ashamed" this word do not have weight on people which already changed. We live in world where "Greed" is the goal. We live in world where "Keep Saying Lies" is trigger interest of mass of the people, they like this.


What I am trying to say is that West is doing so many restless and brutal things, but west people try to play blind, deaf and shut-ed mouth. At same time the same people without any knowledge keep talking lies and blame other countries people that, this is not right, this savage, this is corruption etc...............

If Westerner care about democracy and the rule of law they would never invest Communist China.

Westerner are just hate Turks.

They view Turks and Russian same Eusasian invaders

 

[what]

The foundation of Europe's largest Lithium Ion battery factory for electric vehicles is being laid today in Gemlik in partnership with Farasis. By 2031, Siro, which production capacity will reach over 20 GWh per year, will own the intellectual property of all products and solutions it develops. This also serves as an exemplary model in the opportunities for Turkish-Chinese industrial co-operation. Siro will provide stationary energy storage services for industrial applications, marine vessels, renewable energy to the European region as well as Turkiye.

On a broader scale, with other big facilities like ASPİLSAN Enerji Lithium Ion Battery Production Facility, there are aims to become the biggest production centre of the region within 10 years in the very large product range area of new generation batteries, from drones to vehicles.

Good news and good momentum in the battery industry.
TOGGs factory will grow to 20 GWh per year and Ford Otosan with LG envisions 45 GWh p.a.

 

[Ecderha]

If Westerner care about democracy and the rule of law they would never invest Communist China.

Westerner are just hate Turks.

They view Turks and Russian same Eusasian invaders

If Westerner care about democracy and the rule of law they would never invest Communist China.
This is not going to be changed. Why ?
West became to greedy, especially usa. They are involved in so many schemas to make money -> greedy as fuck that they use China production capability to buy cheap and sell it everywhere.
So those circles live in democracy but do not care about agenda related to China. They will keep investing in China to become more rich

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"Westerner are just hate Turks." - it is more correct that they hate Turks because of 2 main things.
1. Turks are not christians
2. Turks are having Istanbul. It is again about christian religion
============================================================================================

"They view Turks and Russian same Eusasian invaders".
Partially you correct -> It only True for those christains living from West side of europe to usa.

On the East of europe there are many christains countries which are part of the same sect -> "Orthodox" .They think that russians are good and their a family . This changing on new generation

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[B_A]

If Westerner care about democracy and the rule of law they would never invest Communist China.
This is not going to be changed. Why ?
West became to greedy, especially usa. They are involved in so many schemas to make money -> greedy as fuck that they use China production capability to buy cheap and sell it everywhere.
So those circles live in democracy but do not care about agenda related to China. They will keep investing in China to become more rich

============================================================================================

"Westerner are just hate Turks." - it is more correct that they hate Turks because of 2 main things.
1. Turks are not christians
2. Turks are having Istanbul. It is again about christian religion
============================================================================================

"They view Turks and Russian same Eusasian invaders".
Partially you correct -> It only True for those christains living from West side of europe to usa.

On the East of europe there are many christains countries which are part of the same sect -> "Orthodox" .They think that russians are good and their a family . This changing on new generation

===========================================================================================================

1."Westerner" normally only meant West europe and usa.

Not including eastern europe countries which was part of Warsaw pact.Normally Poland Bulgaria etc are easterner to the G7 "Westerner".

Westerner always discriminate against eastern european　

Britishs even used eastern european as an excuse to support Britexit

2.East of europe

May be Serbia Hungary Bulgaria etc be friend with Rusisan(and aslo Turkiye)

But Poland Estonia Lithuania etc hate Russia very much

 

[Baryshx]

These three were just the colonies of USA

No matter any democracy and the rule of law.

They even invest in Communist China before.

That's different, I have already written about it many times here. These countries will eventually be unleashed on China, they need to produce separate policies from the US as soon as possible. Korea is a little better in this regard

 

[Heartbang]

These countries will eventually be unleashed on China, they need to produce separate policies from the US as soon as possible.

They're not aware of the danger. and some of them are, to be honest, willing to be unleashed on.

 

[B_A]

That's different, I have already written about it many times here. These countries will eventually be unleashed on China, they need to produce separate policies from the US as soon as possible. Korea is a little better in this regard

By now still US s colonies

Maybe different in the future.

I just talk about the situation in in 1980-2023

 

[Chocopie]

US and its western suppliers arent the only player in semiconductors. We can sway places like Korea and Japan to move their less cutting-edge fabs to Turkish soil. That would be a good point to start buliding expertise and develop the link between Turkish academia and the semiconductor industry in general, which will inevitably lead to domestic breakthroughs.

And if all else fails, there's still China. They might not be in the cutting edge, but they're pretty damn close.

The global semiconductor supply and value chain is an interconnected and interdependent one, dominated by US, Europe, Japan, Korea and Taiwan in their specialized fields. Advanced and mid-tier chip manufacturing is one of the most complicated, R&D and investment heavy industry on this planet. With enormous consumption of water and energy. A secure, uninterrupted, fine-tuned supply of materials and chemicals are required - it's more time-consuming and difficult to shut down and boot up a chip production line than a nuclear reactor.

• Advanced processor design dominated by US and UK (Apple, Intel, ARM)
• Memory chip design dominated by Korea and US (Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron)
• EUV and DUV lithography dominated by Netherlands and Japan (ASML, Nikon)
• Manufacturing machinery dominated by US, Japan, Europe (Lam, Applied Materials etc.)
• Photoresist, speciality gases, chemicals dominated by Japan and Europe
• Advanced chip production 3nm exclusively by Taiwan and Korea (TSMC, Samsung)
• Silicon wafer production, testing and packaging dominantly in Singapore, Malaysia etc.

Source: https://www.semiconductors.org/stre...miconductor-supply-chain-in-an-uncertain-era/

Source: https://www.gmfus.org/news/transatlantic-cooperation-semiconductors


Setting up a 3-5 nm manufacturing fab costs around $22-23 billion.
Even a lower-tech 28 nm plant costs around $7-8 billion.

Chip manufacturing clusters in Korea (Samsung, investing $230 billion in next 20 years):

Inside a 10 nm chip fab in Arizona, USA (Intel, costs appox. $9-10 billion):

A highly specialized workforce, vertical chip industry ecosystem, clusters of R&D institutions, just-in-time supply chain and logistics and most importantly: rare engineers/technicians with decades-long expertise in chip manufacturing process are needed to set up a meaningful fab with high yield-rate and low defect-rate for future profitability.

What are the economic incentives, that Türkiye can offer to attract foreign chip companies to build up fabs? These investors would have to take high risks in leaving the established semicon manufacturing supply and value chain by investing in a country with a small domestic chip market and without a finished electronics production of global scale. The Turkish state would need to pay foreign companies subsidies in the billions-range of $, provide almost free land, water and energy.

India recently tried to set up an advanced domestic chip manufacturing cluster and failed to allure partners with even upper mid-tier technology. Few companies like Foxconn with >100nm production capabilities showed interest. Afaik mainland Chinese chip makers doesn't set up fabs abroad.

 

[Sanchez]

All this BS talk about onion vs national security. You can't have national security without the onions.
TSK is probably at its worst funded time of the last 100 years. Billions worth of R&D budget doesn't account for the hole in the army's pocket.

 

[Nilgiri]

India recently tried to set up an advanced domestic chip manufacturing cluster and failed to allure partners with even upper mid-tier technology. Few companies like Foxconn with >100nm production capabilities showed interest. Afaik mainland Chinese chip makers doesn't set up fabs abroad.

One consortium is moving ahead (can be discussed further in that thread):

Indian Economy + Infra Archive

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/indigo-orders-500-aircrafts-allies-with-turkish-airlines-to-expand-in-europe-101676692832585.html The deal to acquire 500 aircrafts was made with Airbus and Boeing which will allows the airline to fly to around 27 destinations in the continent. In...

defencehub.live

Semiconductor veteran David Reed, who recently joined as the CEO of Vedanta-Foxconn Semiconductors Limited, said, “We do have now access to a manufacturable grade, high volume technology. We have access to all the documentation and design IP, and it can support industrial and especially automotive. We can't go into details - who it is. But we've already started the transfer process.”

Recently, Reed was in Taiwan for two weeks to review the details personally. “It's bonafide high volume, 40-nanometer production-grade technology," he told BT.

It will be interesting to see what a ~ 10 billion dollar incentive will bring in and grow in today's relatively ensconced setting that you described.

This is why there is a larger problem w.r.t Turkiye given its current lack of financial health in forex, venture capital and fiscal room in the scales needed.....due to economic mismanagement that has been discussed for many pages prior in this thread.