TR Air-Force EF Typhoon

[Yasar_TR]

£8 billion deal struck with Türkiye for first new orders for UK Typhoons since 2017, as the Prime Minister visits Ankara for the first time.

Mate, get your facts right! Read what is written carefully again please.
It says the deal is worth up to 8bn.
In other words Not necessarily 8bn in total.
If it says worth; then you may not necessarily pay that amount at the end of the deal.
If it says up to , then there is a leeway in the deal that will allow you not to pay that full amount mentioned. These are carefully selected wordings by politicians. Don’t omit what they say in order to prove a point please.

 

[Spitfire9]

Mate, get your facts right! Read what is written carefully again please.
It says the deal is worth up to 8bn.
In other words Not necessarily 8bn in total.
If it says worth; then you may not necessarily pay that amount at the end of the deal.
If it says up to , then there is a leeway in the deal that will allow you not to pay that full amount mentioned. These are carefully selected wordings by politicians. Don’t omit what they say in order to prove a point please.

As I said before, I was passing on what it said in the UK government press release. If you don't like the words they chose to use, be aware that I did not write them. If I missed something in the release, my apologies.

 

[Yasar_TR]

As I said before, I was passing on what it said in the UK government press release. If you don't like the words they chose to use, be aware that I did not write them.

No! You were not using the whole statement. That is what I don’t like. If you omit those highlighted words then it loses the real meaning.
You can at least be man enough to accept that you made a mistake.

 

[Spitfire9]

No! You were not using the whole statement. That is what I don’t like. If you omit those highlighted words then it loses the real meaning.
You can at least be man enough to accept that you made a mistake.

No! You were not using the whole statement. That is what I don’t like. If you omit those highlighted words then it loses the real meaning.
You can at least be man enough to accept that you made a mistake.

Just read more of the press release. My error to just cite the 'bullet point'. My mistake for not reading more carefully.

 

[AlperTunga]

It's not 10 billion, its a bit over 7 billion if you convert it to dollars. And it is not insane, it is literally on par with previous deals other users shared here. And we are not just going to get "spanners" go check what exactly we wanted from yanks for F-16 deal, we will be asking spares and everything necessary to maintain and support the planes here ourselves. And, again, if the deal F-16 deal is any indication, we asked for fuck ton of munitions; I'm willing to bet most of it being Meteors.

We are trying to build an entirely new logistic and support system for EF here, and the price we were given tracks with other sales. This is just your "ohmygod Westoids are fucking us over!!!1!!1" speaking.

A meteor missile costs 2m $. Even if we buy 300 it makes 0.6 bn. We dont need any other munition. For that money we should have obtained the right to integrate our own munition. Even if we buy a whole plain in spare parts 40 * 120m € makes about 5bn €. So we have been screwed big time! As Öztürk Serengil said „Bu kazik degil Roma mizragi“ But it was necessary to buy, yes.

 

[AlperTunga]

Bro its been a couple of days

The pain is still there

 

[Zafer]

It is said that we bought them at the cost it costed to Italy, 270mn a piece.

Eurofighter anlaşmasında dikkat çeken detay!

Haber 7 - Türkiye'nin Avrupa ülkelerinden alım anlaşması yaptığı 20 adet Eurofighter savaş uçağının maliyeti açıklandı. Türkiye'nin savaş uçaklarını, uçağın üreticilerinden biri olan İtalya ile aynı rakama aldığı ortaya çıktı.

www.haber7.com

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

The pain is still there

0 pain for me, you guys are just cringe.

If you think $5-8B is huge money... I can assure you Türkiye has wasted a SHIT TON more money on other stuff...

 

[AlperTunga]

i mean we're not just buying an aircraft but an entire system( infrastructure, spare parts, weapons) and much more. Its not fair comparing it to the F16 purchase. Tolga özbek made a good video why the price is so high

Which infrastructure? Hangars? Or some gadgets to repair and upkeep the planes? Or oil filter etc?? Fed up with this logistics bs. Lets agree they caught us in a weak moment and exploited it. And then move on.

 

[boredaf]

A meteor missile costs 2m $. Even if we buy 300 it makes 0.6 bn. We dont need any other munition. For that money we should have obtained the right to integrate our own munition. Even if we buy a whole plain in spare parts 40 * 120m € makes about 5bn €. So we have been screwed big time! As Öztürk Serengil said „Bu kazik degil Roma mizragi“ But it was necessary to buy, yes.

We wanted to buy something like a 1000 a2a missiles from US with Viper and about a 1000 bombs, we asked for guidance kits, training bombs etc andwe are not going to buy any less for the Eurofighters. In fact, since we don't already have an exist stock for them, I'm willing to bet we asked for even more than that.

When we were trying to get F-16s, we didn't just ask for 40 planes and called it done. We asked for something like 10 spare engines for those planes. We didn't just ask for 40 AESA radars, we asked for 10 or more spares. We did it with every single critical system on the plane. From displays to targeting pods to EW systems to mission modules and every single system you can think of, we asked spares of GPS systems.

We are not buying a bloody car and driving it home, stop thinking it like that.

Which infrastructure? Hangars? Or some gadgets to repair and upkeep the planes? Or oil filter etc?? Fed up with this logistics bs. Lets agree they caught us in a weak moment and exploited it. And then move on.

Okay, this just shows you need more education before continuing this conversation mate. We are paying about the same with other countries that purchased the plane. If you want to go against the facts and believe we were fucked, go ahead. Nobody can make you see the reality while you reject it so completely.

Edit: In fact, here is everything we asked from US for 20 billion. Forget the planes and upgrade kits, just take a hard look at the spares, other systems and munitions we asked for. And this is for a system that we have been using for decades, that we already have spares and whatnot for. We are building this ecosystem for the Eurofighter for the first time.

Wayback Machine

 

[Sanchez]

Pretty standard "warfighting" loadout we'll see in the future:

4 Meteors, 2 ASRAAMs, 2 Mk82s and 6 Brimstones.

 

[boredaf]

Pretty standard "warfighting" loadout we'll see in the future:

4 Meteors, 2 ASRAAMs, 2 Mk82s and 6 Brimstones.

View attachment 77980

Personally I like this one better, Brimstones replaced with 2 more guided MK-82.

This chart kinda gives an idea about what is possible, not sure how accurate it is though:

 

[Quasar]

lets oversimplify things..... what will be initial total number of metors in our stocks? any number more than 2 metors per plane sounds a bit optimistic to me.... ı still think we hava a dangerously fragile supply chain concernig the Ef armament especially when we consider the time scale, as long as we operate EF we will be dependent.... and we are not talking about years but decades..... therefore, integration of our domestic armament options is VITAL

 

[Zafer]

They mention Hürjet as "one of the potential navy trainer", which puts the US on the potential prospective Hürjet operators map.

 

[Kaan Azman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1985093628146897331

Kept everything on a "need to know first" basis, hope it will be helpful, more willl come

 

[boredaf]

lets oversimplify things..... what will be initial total number of metors in our stocks? any number more than 2 metors per plane sounds a bit optimistic to me.... ı still think we hava a dangerously fragile supply chain concernig the Ef armament especially when we consider the time scale, as long as we operate EF we will be dependent.... and we are not talking about years but decades..... therefore, integration of our domestic armament options is VITAL

Why on earth would 2 per plane be optimistic? Initial numbers are obviously going to affected by production queues but MBDA increased its missile production by 30% last year and was going to increase it further this year.

MBDA a model more relevant than ever

European collaboration through MBDA has allowed nations access to decisive sovereign capabilities. MBDA has ramped-up production. In a rapidly changing world, MBDA is standing by its customer nations and armed forces to deliver on their needs.

www.mbda-systems.com

In 2024, missile output increased by 33% compared to 2023, and by 2025, the group will have doubled production compared to 2023. Key initiatives driving this acceleration includes continuing to invest €2.4 billion over the next five years (2025-2029) and a significant recruitment drive, with 2,500 new hires in 2024 and a target of 2,600 more in 2025.

Backlog is our only problem here, but if they keep increasing the production numbers, we shouldn't have big problems. And, we are a big purchaser, we wanted a 1000 or so a2a missiles from the US and we already had a stockpile of their missiles. And these sales are important for the company as well, especially since they are making these investments and compared to US based companies, their market is far smaller.

This is not to say implementing our own weaponry wouldn't be the best case scenario, it simply is, but we are not fucked if it doesn't happen like you imply.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't think the price is too high. Three things:

EF is expensive. It's a very expensive way of building a low volume high capacity aircraft, it has 4 countries actively building parts for it and 3 assembly lines, it's bad business.

This is the first time Turkey is getting European jet aircraft, which are different than American aircraft down to some very miniscule but important changes.

As outlined before, price is not even that high compared to other users:


And as a bonus, we already talked about how there's no MSRP for deals as complex as this; but one more thing to convey is the post covid inflation. USD and all the other currencies lost about 25 to 50% of their value in the last 15 years. 1 billion USD in 2010 is 1.5 billion now. F-35 costs are still considered using the 2012 USD for example, to make the calculation easier.

Güler agrees with me.

"The unit costs of the Eurofighter aircraft that Türkiye will acquire are at the same level as those of the countries included in the Eurofighter production consortium.

A significant portion of the contract price also consists of munition and mission equipment."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1999156322990776444

 

[boredaf]

Güler agrees with me.

"The unit costs of the Eurofighter aircraft that Türkiye will acquire are at the same level as those of the countries included in the Eurofighter production consortium.

A significant portion of the contract price also consists of munition and mission equipment."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1999156322990776444

Only people who were looking at the numbers without comparing them to other sales AND without thinking about how many munitions we would buy were complaining about the price. I said it at the time, we buy big. The number of munitions we wanted to buy from the US for F-16s were a good indication of what we might want and all those numbers were going to be added to our already existing stock.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

Only people who were looking at the numbers without comparing them to other sales AND without thinking about how many munitions we would buy were complaining about the price. I said it at the time, we buy big. The number of munitions we wanted to buy from the US for F-16s were a good indication of what we might want and all those numbers were going to be added to our already existing stock.

Will we not be able to put our own munition onto those EFs?

 

[boredaf]

Will we not be able to put our own munition onto those EFs?

No idea, but, it doesn't matter really. Even if we could, we would buy a lot of missiles. We can use our missiles on F-16s and yet we still wanted to more than 1000 bombs and missiles. Eurofighter gives us access to missiles we never had before and we have no stockpiles, perfect opportunity to start building one.