TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Brokengineer]

Turkiye wants to acquire 30 second-hand Eurofighters (+50 more as an option for a total of 80 fighters) and upgrade them with Turkish subsystems.

UK-Turkiye negotiations include;

TFX engine production
Turkiye becoming a partner nation for the Tempest project
Possibility of secondhand Eurofighter and upgrading them with Turkish contribution/subsystems.
Turkish aircraft carrier project.

BTW no deals at the moment on any of them. Eurofighter is especially complicated due to the nature of the fighter.

Those 30 aircraft is probably the tranche 1 royal airforce wants to get rid of. If they allow for application of turkish subsytems and missiles that is valid for optional fighters, it could be an opportunity to enhance field of expertise on european aircrafts.
There are many advantages to have an full fleet of us based fighters for Turkey. However, risks have surpassed rewards. I think its time to diversify fleet and eurofighter is a good option.

 

[Yasar_TR]

UK has in it’s inventory, 52 tranche-1 typhoons. 35 of these are single seat and 17 are twin seat planes. They will be gradually brought out of commission until 2025.
As they are, they are of no use to us. They need to be upgraded to tranche-3 status at least. Preferably to tranche-4 status with BAE Systems’ latest GaAs/GaN hybrid Aesa radar.
Also we should need guarantees from UK that all spare parts and spare engine supplies would not be hindered by Germany later on, since a good deal of the engine and plane parts are produced by German manufacturers.
Germany had earlier put the brakes on the deal between UK and Saudi Arabia for the finalised 48 Typhoon sale after UK and BAE Systems had brokered the deal that took a long time. With this move, Germany blocking the contract and stopping the sale showed they have a lot of pull on the Typhoon sales.
Buying old planes is one part of the equation; Also there has to be definite after sales and parts supply guarantees, if we want to keep those planes in the air. ( One way is for RR to produce the engines at Kale/RR factory in Turkey, and give the know how and technical details to Tusas for in house manufacturing of the plane parts to circumvent any future German embargoes) To make it viable the quantity of the deal has to be well over 80 units. Even then, the cost of buying these planes will be very high, both financially and practically as we will need new pilots and ground crews that will have to be trained separately.
I would say to SSB; get your whip out and make sure those new Aesa radars are fitted on to our Ozgur F16’s at the earliest. That is the best and most logical solution.
But to have access to a technology like Typhoon is also very mouth watering.

 

[MADDOG]

UK has in i’s inventory, 52 tranche-1 typhoons. 35 of these are single seat and 17 are twin seat planes. They will be gradually brought out of commission until 2025.
As they are, they are of no use to us. They need to be upgraded to tranche-3 status at least. Preferably to tranche-4 status with BAE Systems’ latest GaAs/GaN hybrid Aesa radar.
Also we should need guarantees from UK that all spare parts and spare engine supplies would not be hindered by Germany later on, since a good deal of the engine and plane parts are produced by German manufacturers.
Germany had earlier put the brakes on the deal between UK and Saudi Arabia for the finalised 48 Typhoon sale after UK and BAE Systems had brokered the deal that took a long time. With this move, Germany blocking the contract and stopping the sale showed they have a lot of pull on the Typhoon sales.
Buying old planes is one part of the equation; Also there has to be definite after sales and parts supply guarantees, if we want to keep those planes in the air. ( One way is for RR to produce the engines at Kale/RR factory in Turkey, and give the know how and technical details to Tusas for in house manufacturing of the plane parts to circumvent any future German embargoes) To make it viable the quantity of the deal has to be well over 80 units. Even then, the cost of buying these planes will be very high, both financially and practically as we will need new pilots and ground crews that will have to be trained separately.
I would say to SSB; get your whip out and make sure those new Aesa radars are fitted on to our Ozgur F16’s at the earliest.

We should just buy these if sh*t hits the fan in my humble opinion. Of course, it should be our last resort. Better than buying from Russia lol. But it's a matter of national security, and if we become desperate I unfortunately see no other way. TAI can slow certain projects down in order to make way for some Tranche 1's. There they could get upgraded with more up-to-date systems. We need planes! More planes in fact. Our F-16's are getting old. They are in good shape now, but that won't last forever. We don't know when the TF-X will enter service, we don't know when we will see Hurjet either. We are (as of now) only upgrading the Block 30's as part of the OZGUR program. If we can't get those Vipers, then we gotta do something else.

 

[Glass🚬]

american junk is way to risky these days, would be a wise decision to get those typhoons.

 

[CAN_TR]

Without full modernization i wouldn't even touch those Eurofighter Tranche 1 even our F-16Blk50 would trash them in the air.

 

[Agha Sher]

Turkiye wants to acquire 30 second-hand Eurofighters (+50 more as an option for a total of 80 fighters) and upgrade them with Turkish subsystems.

UK-Turkiye negotiations include;

TFX engine production
Turkiye becoming a partner nation for the Tempest project
Possibility of secondhand Eurofighter and upgrading them with Turkish contribution/subsystems.
Turkish aircraft carrier project.

BTW no deals at the moment on any of them. Eurofighter is especially complicated due to the nature of the fighter.

TB2 and TB3 needs to be part of this deal as well. Turkey is no longer just a customer.

 

[Nilgiri]

As they are, they are of no use to us. They need to be upgraded to tranche-3 status at least. Preferably to tranche-4 status with BAE Systems’ latest GaAs/GaN hybrid Aesa radar.

Unlikely to happen given the current maintenance + upgrade schedules (where these capacities exist) focused and continue to focus on tranche 2+.

There just wasn't a huge number of tranche 1 made (especially w.r.t early retirement in mind)....so no one has done the relevant undertaking to upgrade these to AESA capable....there is a fundamental different architecture inside them thats essentially baked in and expensive to change and make worth for 10 - 15 years more flight at most.

 

[Oublious]

We will buy the Eurofighter, Americans will not sell the new Viper but only upgrade kits. Just wait and see , we urgent need to replace F4.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Unlikely to happen given the current maintenance + upgrade schedules (where these capacities exist) focused and continue to focus on tranche 2+.

There just wasn't a huge number of tranche 1 made (especially w.r.t early retirement in mind)....so no one has done the relevant undertaking to upgrade these to AESA capable....there is a fundamental different architecture inside them thats essentially baked in and expensive to change and make worth for 10 - 15 years more flight at most.

I appreciate your view about upgrading them. But if memory serves, there are programs among current users of tranche-1 to upgrade them to tranche-3 . How is that possible then? There appears to be for the UK upgrade programs on tranche-1; drop 1, drop 2, drop 3 and a drop 4 upgrade packages.

Spain receives first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter fighter jet

The Spanish Air Force has received the first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter single-seat combat jet from Airbus as part of a contract.

www.airforce-technology.com

Tranche 1 Typhoon fleet is upgraded

The fleet receives Drop 2 upgrade.

www.baesystems.com

 

[Huelague]

Turkiye wants to acquire 30 second-hand Eurofighters (+50 more as an option for a total of 80 fighters) and upgrade them with Turkish subsystems.

UK-Turkiye negotiations include;

TFX engine production
Turkiye becoming a partner nation for the Tempest project
Possibility of secondhand Eurofighter and upgrading them with Turkish contribution/subsystems.
Turkish aircraft carrier project.

BTW no deals at the moment on any of them. Eurofighter is especially complicated due to the nature of the fighter.

Source?

 

[Nutuk]

introducing Eurofighter while we are so close to Hurjet would only be craziness

 

[Nilgiri]

I appreciate your view about upgrading them. But if memory serves, there are programs among current users of tranche-1 to upgrade them to tranche-3 . How is that possible then? There appears to be for the UK upgrade programs on tranche-1; drop 1, drop 2, drop 3 and a drop 4 upgrade packages.

Spain receives first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter fighter jet

The Spanish Air Force has received the first upgraded Tranche 1 Eurofighter single-seat combat jet from Airbus as part of a contract.

www.airforce-technology.com

Tranche 1 Typhoon fleet is upgraded

The fleet receives Drop 2 upgrade.

www.baesystems.com

Yah you can bring in tranche 2+ components to make a better a/c with tranche 1 (so they call these drops/blocks withing tranche 1).

From your article:

As part of the upgrade, the company integrated Tranche 2 and Tranche 3 equipment on the aircraft, including a computer symbol generator, digital video and voice recorder, laser designator pod and maintenance data panel.



But it hasn't been done (AFAIK) with an AESA radar itself (to replace the original mech scan one)....to truly make it (at root capacity level) like tranches 2 - 4 etc.

Tranche 2 is where they inserted the AESA radar from the inside out, so those are why those can seamlessly be upgraded to later tranches as far as those can be modular backworked in.

But between tranche 1 and 2 essentially lies something of a brickwall as far as AESA is concerned AFAIK.

 

[TheInsider]

I think we should get 80 second-hand Eurofighters and upgrade them with Turkish components with the help of the BAE systems(with BAE on board there won't be any risks) provided that the UK can give the necessary guarantees to support the non-Turkish components of the aircraft without problems.

We can also bring EJ-200 to the TFX engine deal. A maintenance facility and spare parts production capability for TAEC can sweeten the TFX engine deal for the RR.EJ-200 upgrade should also be studied.

A budget of 6 billion should be enough for this deal.

 

[Heartbang]

I think we should get 80 second-hand Eurofighters and upgrade them with Turkish components with the help of the BAE systems(with BAE on board there won't be any risks) provided that the UK can give the necessary guarantees to support the non-Turkish components of the aircraft without problems.

We can also bring EJ-200 to the TFX engine deal. A maintenance facility and spare parts production capability for TAEC can sweeten the TFX engine deal for the RR.EJ-200 upgrade should also be studied.

A budget of 6 billion should be enough for this deal.

integrating ej200s into the TFX would hamper the performance of the plane. they are not in the same thrust class.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yah you can bring in tranche 2+ components to make a better a/c with tranche 1 (so they call these drops/blocks withing tranche 1).

From your article:

As part of the upgrade, the company integrated Tranche 2 and Tranche 3 equipment on the aircraft, including a computer symbol generator, digital video and voice recorder, laser designator pod and maintenance data panel.



But it hasn't been done (AFAIK) with an AESA radar itself (to replace the original mech scan one)....to truly make it (at root capacity level) like tranches 2 - 4 etc.

Tranche 2 is where they inserted the AESA radar from the inside out, so those are why those can seamlessly be upgraded to later tranches as far as those can be modular backworked in.

But between tranche 1 and 2 essentially lies something of a brickwall as far as AESA is concerned AFAIK.

Everything you say here seems to fit in well with the current situation of typhoon tranche-1.
The only way any typhoon is likely to get an Aesa radar upgrade is, if it is tranche-2 or higher.
That means, what the UK is offering is not suitable for TurAF. (If there is such an offer)
If we are to go for typhoon planes we should ask for tranche-4 with Turkish companies manufacturing both engine and body under license or in a JV.

 

[TheInsider]

integrating ej200s into the TFX would hamper the performance of the plane. they are not in the same thrust class.

I never said anything about integrating EJ-200 into the TFX. I said we can bring EJ-200 to the TFX engine deal. This will sweeten the deal for RR. EJ-200+stage 1 upgrade for the Turkish Eurofighter+new engine for the TFX a single colossal deal between the parties. In return, RR should transfer the ability to maintain and produce spare parts of EJ-200 to the TAEC. This will also serve as a stepping stone for TAEC to enhance its abilities in preparation for the production of the TFX engine and ease the worries of TAF in regards to support of the Eurofighter.


BAE+Aselsan+Roketsan+Tubitak SAGE+TUSAS Eurofighter upgrade team
RR+TAEC EJ-200 maintenance and upgrade team
RR+TAEC+TEI+Alp Havacılık+TRMotor+TUSAS TFX Engine Team
TUSAS+BAE TFX Team ( already in motion)

40 second-hand Eurofighter for the first phase and an additional 40 Eurofighters for the second phase. Budget 6+ billion(same as the F-16V upgrade and brand new F-16V budget).

We can use 80 Eurofighter in the future too similar to the US using F-15s as bomb trucks. They will have better kinematic and payload capability than a Rafale. EJ-200 stage 1 engine will provide real supercruise capability.

Other deals between UK and Turkiye should include the Turkish aircraft carrier and the Tempest project. UK needs a partner like Turkiye for the Tempest project if the UK doesn't want Tempes to cost over 200+million and be cost-effective.

 

[Nutuk]

I for my part am totally against 4th generation foreign fighter jets, be it Eurofighter or anything else.

Put all on our own Hurjet figther.
After Hurjet one can even decide for twin engine Hurjet (= practically equivalent of Eurofighter), but better is to concentrate on unmanned fighters

and continue on the TFx fully committed, every penny spend on foreign fighter jets is a waste (I am even against 40 new F16 blk 70, just take the 80 upgrade kits)

 

[Zafer]

If we can pull off a workable engine from the TF6000 project we can make both the single engine Kızılelma and a twin engine jet with it. Small but effective planes that do not carry a whole lot of load but precision munition that does a neat job would make us much better off in which case we can take our time to develop Hürjet size engines and the TFX engines.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524871795798597645

1x Longitude

2x Latitude

 

[Nutuk]

It is said the Cessna ('s) are for radar tests

Is Tusas not a bit late with the order?