TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

UkroTurk

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Guys, how useful would 12.7 mm be to take out drones or ucav/uav and such ? I know it'd be better to use something like cirit (that size) and would have all necessary tech to get the kill, but if there are a swarm of drones, wouldn't a 12.7 mm be quite useful as some sort of close AD for airforce ?
İf you hit UAV from 12.7 cal, you could totally f...k it.
This caliber is used for Antiair Doshkas.

I would like to say again same thing: "C'mon make Hürkuş C unmanned!!! "
I can't imagine how unmanned Hürkuş C making presicion on enemy infantry.
 

Ravager

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İf you hit UAV from 12.7 cal, you could totally f...k it.
This caliber is used for Antiair Doshkas.

I would like to say again same thing: "C'mon make Hürkuş C unmanned!!! "
I can't imagine how unmanned Hürkuş C making presicion on enemy infantry.

To be honest ...in this particular case . I would prefer a 14.5 mm . But , considering logistic ... Yeah , 12.7 mm will do just fine and more space accomodating to a platform .
 

Sanchez

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Is there any deswıgn change for Hurkus-2 or is it just change of used material for the structure?
I don't think we saw any image, CAD drawing or 3d etc for Hürkuş 2. Everything out there is from the original. Probably it won't be that much different from the outside though.
 

IC3M@N FX

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Temel Kotil mentioned about new wing design as well. Probably in order to made the aircraft more beginner friendly.
What about the Engine?
We should be able to produce turboprop engines without any problems by now.
As far as I know, the one from Hürkus is from Pratt & Whitney, so it would make sense to switch to domestic engines here too in order to reduce the production price and increase the profit margin.
We would even have a positive side effect.
Because to further improve our own turboprop engines in terms of fuel consumption, noise and performance.
Even the future HALE/MALE drones and transport aircraft (especially those needed for troop movements) could benefit from the findings.
 

Sanchez

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What about the Engine?
We should be able to produce turboprop engines without any problems by now.
As far as I know, the one from Hürkus is from Pratt & Whitney, so it would make sense to switch to domestic engines here too in order to reduce the production price and increase the profit margin.
We would even have a positive side effect.
Because to further improve our own turboprop engines in terms of fuel consumption, noise and performance.
Even the future HALE/MALE drones and transport aircraft (especially those needed for troop movements) could benefit from the findings.
TS1400 may be converted to turboprop in the future and used but PT6 is basically an industry standard with over 50000 built with a great safety record. We do need a turboprop at that range, mainly for drones, but it is a tough sell for trainer customers. Could be interesting for the combat variant.
 

IC3M@N FX

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TS1400 may be converted to turboprop in the future and used but PT6 is basically an industry standard with over 50000 built with a great safety record. We do need a turboprop at that range, mainly for drones, but it is a tough sell for trainer customers. Could be interesting for the combat variant.
But we won't be able to sell military versions of Hürküs or Hürjets to other countries if the engines are from Pratt & Whitney, General Electric or Eurojet.
You could possibly get around this by unofficially setting up a defence company in a foreign country somewhere in Africa, e.g. South Africa, which specializes in converting training machines from various aircraft.
To turn a training aircraft into a combat aircraft in principle upgrade kits.
But they would have to have a slightly different version of the soft/hardware than the official Turkish ones.
Hensoldt and Honeywell, for example, do this with their products to circumvent European embargoes.
You also have to be able to think outside the box instead of taking the direct route to the customer.
Turkey can save itself a lot of trouble - sometimes you have to be as clever as a fox and exploit loopholes.
 

Sanchez

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But we won't be able to sell military versions of Hürküs or Hürjets to other countries if the engines are from Pratt & Whitney, General Electric or Eurojet.
You could possibly get around this by unofficially setting up a defence company in a foreign country somewhere in Africa, e.g. South Africa, which specializes in converting training machines from various aircraft.
To turn a training aircraft into a combat aircraft in principle upgrade kits.
But they would have to have a slightly different version of the soft/hardware than the official Turkish ones.
Hensoldt and Honeywell, for example, do this with their products to circumvent European embargoes.
You also have to be able to think outside the box instead of taking the direct route to the customer.
Turkey can save itself a lot of trouble - sometimes you have to be as clever as a fox and exploit loopholes.
We did sell/transfer Hürkuş to two very unfriendly to west countries, Chad and Niger. PT6 is not a strategic asset and Hürkuş is unimportant enough to fly under the radar. Converting TS1400 to just replace PT6 for Hürkuş doesn't make any fiscal sense. Couple it with drones and future twin engine ventures, then it would.
 

Merzifonlu

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We do need a turboprop at that range, mainly for drones, but it is a tough sell for trainer customers.
True. However we use drones so intensively and we will soon reach PT6's flight times. For this reason, IMO we can achieve the engine reliability required for trainer customers in a short time and cost effectively.
 

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True. However we use drones so intensively and we will soon reach PT6's flight times. For this reason, IMO we can achieve the engine reliability required for trainer customers in a short time and cost effectively.
Engine is possible, doubt we can match PT6's 500 million flight hours tho :D 64.000 engines since 1963.
"With more than 64,000 PT6 engines produced since its introduction in 1963, it powers over 155 different aviation applications. The PT6 is unmatched in engine performance, reliability and dispatch availability, having reached 500 million flying hours."
 

IC3M@N FX

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Serious question: what's wrong with modifying Hürküs as a drone version? Remove the entire cockpit and install drone hardware + SATCOM.
This could save weight and even install an additional fuel tank inside, which would certainly make 6-8 hours of flight time possible for combat missions.
As it stands, the Hürküs costs between 10-15 million dollars and is therefore relatively cheap.
It would even be a serious alternative to the Akinci/Aksungur drone as the Hürküs is definitely more agile and aggressive and faster in combat, the aircraft officially flies 500 -600 km/h probably even 650-700 km/h is possible.
The Hürküs as a pure combat drone could close a gap between Kizilelma and the other drones.
It would also be a real alternative to the ATAK 1/2 combat helicopter for ground support as a drone.
I generally wouldn't put a human in a turboprob fighter, the anti-aircraft missiles and the latest Stinger-like systems are just so dead optimized that they would take apart the aircraft including the pilot - that would be pure suicide.
 

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Serious question: what's wrong with modifying Hürküs as a drone version? Remove the entire cockpit and install drone hardware + SATCOM.
This could save weight and even install an additional fuel tank inside, which would certainly make 6-8 hours of flight time possible for combat missions.
As it stands, the Hürküs costs between 10-15 million dollars and is therefore relatively cheap.
It would even be a serious alternative to the Akinci/Aksungur drone as the Hürküs is definitely more agile and aggressive and faster in combat, the aircraft officially flies 500 -600 km/h probably even 650-700 km/h is possible.
The Hürküs as a pure combat drone could close a gap between Kizilelma and the other drones.
It would also be a real alternative to the ATAK 1/2 combat helicopter for ground support as a drone.
I generally wouldn't put a human in a turboprob fighter, the anti-aircraft missiles and the latest Stinger-like systems are just so dead optimized that they would take apart the aircraft including the pilot - that would be pure suicide.

Let's brainstorm
Nothing wrong, but what is the advantage to do so? First of all Hurkus is not stealth, so what is the advantage to turn it into a drone while we have Kizilelma and ANKA-3? I do not think the price is $15mln but suppose it is, what about the extra costs to turn it into a drone? And above all, what advantage would it have above Akinci / Aksungur? On the contrary it would never achieve the same endurance.
 

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Engine is possible, doubt we can match PT6's 500 million flight hours tho :D 64.000 engines since 1963.
"With more than 64,000 PT6 engines produced since its introduction in 1963, it powers over 155 different aviation applications. The PT6 is unmatched in engine performance, reliability and dispatch availability, having reached 500 million flying hours."
What about two PT6 engines on Hürkuş? Would that increase speed and agility
 

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Engine is possible, doubt we can match PT6's 500 million flight hours tho :D 64.000 engines since 1963.
"With more than 64,000 PT6 engines produced since its introduction in 1963, it powers over 155 different aviation applications. The PT6 is unmatched in engine performance, reliability and dispatch availability, having reached 500 million flying hours."
sorry, but do we need to match those flight hours ?

wouldn't we be doing damn well if we had 100k flight hours flawless and perfect on fewer units ?
 

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What about two PT6 engines on Hürkuş? Would that increase speed and agility
That's no longer a Hürkuş, complete overkill. Smallest twin PT6 aircraft I know of is the Piper P-31T, a 6 to 8 person high speed long range small business aircraft. And it runs with smaller variant at a bit higher than 600shp each. A 1600shp PT6 like on the Hürkuş is more than enough to power to make it a very fast and nimble aircraft. With a twin large PT6 like on the Hürkuş, you can power a Basler Dakota conversion :D These are very powerful engines.
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sorry, but do we need to match those flight hours ?

wouldn't we be doing damn well if we had 100k flight hours flawless and perfect on fewer units ?
We absolutely don't and reaching 100K would be an awesome achievement for local engine production. It could also effect the exports positively. But PT6 is simply a powerhouse, and unless our own TS1400 conversion come up with big advancements like lower operating costs, lower upfront cost and greater efficiency, unless a customer has no choice, they would want a PT6, just like we chose PT6 for Hürkuş. Because it is basically the industry standard for small-medium sized turboprop aircraft.
 

UkroTurk

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First of all Hurkus is not stealth, so what is the advantage to turn it into a drone while we have Kizilelma and ANKA-3
First: Not Sacrificing crew of Hürkuş while using Hürkuş C capabilities.
KE is expensive more advanced. Kinda comparing manned F-16 with manned Hürkuş -C

Regarding ANKA-3 you might seem right but Hürkuş -C is for totally missions different from ANKA-3. Anka-3 kinda unmanned F117.

Where could you use Hürkuş-C? Why would you need manned Hürkuş-C while you are having TB2, KE, ANKA-3?
So Manned Hürkuş -C is useless?
Edit:
How much do 2 ejection seats, oxygen supply , smart helmets for two pilot , cockpit glass cost? You could replace the money for remote control.
 
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