TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1780974190096511414

Additional order for HÜRJET: Delivery is brought forward by 1 year!

Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün:

"In addition to the 4 Block-0 aircraft signed between our Presidency and TAI, we are including 12 Block-1 aircraft in the scope.

With this contract change, the delivery of 12 serial aircraft within the scope of Block-1 will be converted into a firm order. Aircraft delivery dates will be improved and brought forward by 1 year."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1780971999340163431

40 more HÜRKUŞ units will be supplied!

Defense Industry President Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün "We plan to have the first HÜRKUŞ-B aircraft enter the Air Forces Command inventory in May 2025, and the 15th aircraft in September 2025. In order to carry out flight training activities effectively in line with the developing needs of our Air Forces Command, 40 more HÜRKUŞ-Bs will be procured. "We are signing our contract today."

Görgün stated that with the said contract, a total of 55 HÜRKUŞ-B aircraft will enter the inventory.
"In this context, we plan to deliver the 55th aircraft to our Air Force in June 2027. HÜRKUŞ-B, which is the most capable aircraft in its class, will have a 1600 horsepower engine."

 

[Samba]

What are the best use case scenarios for Hürkuş?

 

[boredaf]

If a country has 5th gen available they'll opt for that.

That is simply not true. US might not be buying new F-16s but they are upgrading all of their available ones instead of retiring them, on top of buying new F-15s and F-18s. China is still producing and upgrading their J-10s and J-16s. France is still buying Rafales. UK, Germany, Spain still buying/upgrading their Eurofighters. Russia is still making SU-35s. Israel just recently bought F-15s.

Only countries that are forgoing 4th/4.5th gen planes completely for 5th gen are the ones that have small air forces and expect someone else to do the heavy lifting for them.

And F-15s were bought for the USAF not the National Guard.

 

[Ryder]

Depends on the region and mission profile. A small country with no proper air force.or air defence won't be an issue. F35 was meant to be the workhorse in a world where F16 could no longer operate due to SAM systems especially around Russia and areas where they have influence, even Syria potentially. F35 ended up being too expensive and long range SAM systems aren't in the inventory of every country yet.

F35 was also made to replace the F16, F15, A10 and the FA18 jets.

Not to mention it was made so the Air Force, US Navy and US marines all have the same jet just like the F4 phantom which was used by all branches.

 

[YeşilVatan]

See, I agree mostly but I think people overplay the 4.5th gen. If a country has 5th gen available they'll opt for that. Taking the US as the prime example, the navy procured one final measly batch of super hornets basically to use up the budget and to appease Boeing.

The F15EX exists solely to keep the air national guard alive. It's more expensive than a goddamn F35. That's unacceptable. Even its supposed mission as a missile truck is mostly just internet bullshit, since it's never getting those proposed racks that would allow it to carry 20 AMRAAMs (not that that made sense. the jet would have been a complete pig.) It exists so that ANG can argue for a reason for its budget (and existence lmao), and representatives of each state love federal funds. It never even went through proper procurement. No bids or anything. It just one day appeared on the ANG list. Doesn't that just scream like a healthy procurement process to you?

The US no longer even purchases F16s of any kind. All newer US purchases of older fighters are inherently political procurements.

The world itself is becoming a contested environment leaving less room for older jets to move and with continued manufacturing of 5th gen planes, they're becoming cheaper and cheaper. The supposed advantage of 4.5th gens which is less cost of ownership is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

You actually changed my opinion on that. Not %100 though, because as boredaf said, upgraded 4th gen fighters are still the main body of the (larger) air forces around the world, and that's not going to change in 15 years. I think the maintenance and production costs should go down more for 5th gen planes to be the mainstay of large militaries. US is the obvious exemption because they throw obscene amounts of money at this issue.

 

[boredaf]

Air national guard is part of the AF. The first EX were literally given to Oregon national guard lmao. ANG does not exist as its own service, and many would argue is an unnecessary service in and of itself, which is why it's trying to argue for its existence.

Upgrading existing airframes is cheaper than buying entirely new ones, obviously. But the sales of newer 4,5 for the US are political. Russia can't make 5th gen in proper usable numbers, so flankers are a necessity. J-20 aren't one-to-one with flankers in capabiltiy and weren't designed to be, they actually need their missile trucks and EW platforms, plus they aren't procured in enough numbers. J-35 once it reaches its numbers is where the parity would lie. Israel, I'll give you that one, but if they had the option for F-22 I doubt they'd choose f-15. France will never buy F-35 due to protection of domestic industry. The Euro consortium also in turn needs to maintain their own industry with purchases and upgrades, plus bought typhoons can't be left to rot, and the Typhoon is a better A2A platform.

Point is, many of these stem from either domestic industry issues or the F35's design being a strike platform which does not suit their needs. End of the day, if you want a multriole strike fighter, brand new panthers are better than vipers and seemingly not more expensive.

Mate, all of this just further proves that countries do not automatically prefer 5th gen fighters even if they have easy access to them. Nobody is upgrading their 4th gen, or rolling out new updated 4.5th gen version just to sit them out somewhere. They'll be used for the foreseeable future, not head to head against 5th gen fighters but in missions that do not require them.

 

[Saithan]

Some sources supporting what you say would be nice.

countries like Denmark opted for F35 and not EF. And they had/have F16 as only platform. It’s too costly to have a variety for such small countries.

But the russians keep entering DK airspace so sending F35 everytime is expensive.

 

[Sanchez]

The F15EX exists solely to keep the air national guard alive. It's more expensive than a goddamn F35. That's unacceptable. Even its supposed mission as a missile truck is mostly just internet bullshit, since it's never getting those proposed racks that would allow it to carry 20 AMRAAMs (not that that made sense. the jet would have been a complete pig.) It exists so that ANG can argue for a reason for its budget (and existence lmao), and representatives of each state love federal funds. It never even went through proper procurement. No bids or anything.

F-15EX made sense because ANG is already the biggest user of F-15C and EX is a suitable replacement for the type and the role. It also made great sense because development costs for it were already paid for by gulf countries.

 

[hawk21]

See, I agree mostly but I think people overplay the 4.5th gen. If a country has 5th gen available they'll opt for that. Taking the US as the prime example, the navy procured one final measly batch of super hornets basically to use up the budget and to appease Boeing.

The F15EX exists solely to keep the air national guard alive. It's more expensive than a goddamn F35. That's unacceptable. Even its supposed mission as a missile truck is mostly just internet bullshit, since it's never getting those proposed racks that would allow it to carry 20 AMRAAMs (not that that made sense. the jet would have been a complete pig.) It exists so that ANG can argue for a reason for its budget (and existence lmao), and representatives of each state love federal funds. It never even went through proper procurement. No bids or anything. It just one day appeared on the ANG list. Doesn't that just scream like a healthy procurement process to you?

The US no longer even purchases F16s of any kind. All newer US purchases of older fighters are inherently political procurements.

The world itself is becoming a contested environment leaving less room for older jets to move and with continued manufacturing of 5th gen planes, they're becoming cheaper and cheaper. The supposed advantage of 4.5th gens which is less cost of ownership is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

While I don't disagree with the bigger point you're making about importance of 4.5 gen vs 5th gen, the F-15EX is actually the worst example you could have come up with to support your point.

The F-15EX exists to carry extremely large ASAT and ALBM payloads as well as air-launched hypersonic missiles. It can fly faster than any other fighter (mach 2.8+) and reach higher altitudes too. It is able to go supersonic in a vertical climb. These give it an unsurpassed ability to launch ASAT interceptors that can reach higher orbits.

It is a plane that can perform roles which no fifth gen aircraft can.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Türkiye'nin F-16 Blok 70 uçaklarını teslim alacağı tarih açıklandı! O tarihte envantere girecek... - Sanayi Gazetesi

Türk Hava Kuvvetleri, sözleşmenin bir an önce imzalanması şartıyla ilk F-16 Viper'ı 2027 yılı ortasında teslim alacak

sanayigazetesi.com.tr

According to this news piece, LM official in charge has stated that subject to immediate signing of the order, the 40 V 70 F16 planes for TurAF will start to be delivered in mid 2027.

So it is vital that Tusas sets up a production line for F16, with the approval of LM to expedite deliveries , not just for TurAF but for other customers too, as there is a queue for 122 planes at the moment in their production line which is trying to achieve 4 planes per month target.

 

[boredaf]

Türkiye'nin F-16 Blok 70 uçaklarını teslim alacağı tarih açıklandı! O tarihte envantere girecek... - Sanayi Gazetesi

Türk Hava Kuvvetleri, sözleşmenin bir an önce imzalanması şartıyla ilk F-16 Viper'ı 2027 yılı ortasında teslim alacak

sanayigazetesi.com.tr

According to this news piece, LM official in charge has stated that subject to immediate signing of the order, the 40 V 70 F16 planes for TurAF will start to be delivered in mid 2027.

So it is vital that Tusas sets up a production line for F16, with the approval of LM to expedite deliveries , not just for TurAF but for other customers too, as there is a queue for 122 planes at the moment in their production line which is trying to achieve 4 planes per month target.

I would be very, very shocked (dare I say even flabbergasted) if we don't get that production line for ourselves and other LM orders as well. They already inspected TAI facilities in 2022, already commented on TAI's expertise as well in one of the defence industry fairs iirc, and we already requested to produce our own planes. It would be beneficial for both sides. I bet everything will be signed no later than end of this summer.

 

[Boykaz]

Murad Aesa radar

 

[Windchime]

So it is vital that Tusas sets up a production line for F16, with the approval of LM to expedite deliveries , not just for TurAF but for other customers too, as there is a queue for 122 planes at the moment in their production line which is trying to achieve 4 planes per month target.

I would be very, very shocked (dare I say even flabbergasted) if we don't get that production line for ourselves and other LM orders as well. They already inspected TAI facilities in 2022, already commented on TAI's expertise as well in one of the defence industry fairs iirc, and we already requested to produce our own planes. It would be beneficial for both sides. I bet everything will be signed no later than end of this summer.

I don't think that LM would be willing to transfer any of their orders to Turkiye when they've only just started to operate this new production line. Also not a good look in terms of South Carolina politics with obvious "they are taking our jobs" rhetoric. Besides, when they reach their production capacity goal soon, which they say they are aiming to achieve in a few years, they wouldn't need any production partner but rather, new orders to keep the plant running.

I would be very surprised if TUSAS gets anything more than the new Turkish order.

 

[boredaf]

I don't think that LM would be willing to transfer any of their orders to Turkiye when they've only just started to operate this new production line. Also not a good look in terms of South Carolina politics with obvious "they are taking our jobs" rhetoric. Besides, when they reach their production capacity goal soon, which they say they are aiming to achieve in a few years, they wouldn't need any production partner but rather, new orders to keep the plant running.

I would be very surprised if TUSAS gets anything more than the new Turkish order.

That's also a possibility, especially since they open the new production line as you pointed out. But, arms race is not slowing down only accelerating and I wouldn't be surprised if LM would want to increase production speed and give smaller orders to us while keeping big ones to themselves.

Pure speculation on my part, of course, you being right makes more sense at the moment.

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1837776103806849088

Ozgur package being considered to upgrade Indonesian F16 fleet

 

[Radko]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1837776103806849088

Ozgur package being considered to upgrade Indonesian F16 fleet

A bit off topic but why is that guy so anti-Turkish? He says buying Italian or French is ok but Turkish is "being fully dependent" why?

 

[Khagan1923]

A bit off topic but why is that guy so anti-Turkish? He says buying Italian or French is ok but Turkish is "being fully dependent" why?

I asked the same question a couple months ago. What I gathered just like we have some "eziks" who love to lick western european feet he is pretty much the same, also probably being funded by certain companies (*hust* french *hust*).

Also this option does not exist. For Özgür to be applied to non-Turkish F-16 they would need permission from the US which is impossible as it would hamper its own Viper-Kit sales.

 

[Saithan]

I would go with US assistance for Viper upgrade if possible.

I think it's smart and wise to get some platforms from Türkiye, but unfortunately Air Force jet isn't one of those. Anka, tb2, etc is fine. But I'd fucking make sure I'd have a pending contract for delivery of F-16 V or 70 configurations and 4-8 new ones delivered every 5 years for 25 years or so. I wouldn't want to jeapordize my airdorce by the whims of relations going bad. And nowhere to go to.

 

[mohammadtd]

A bit off topic but why is that guy so anti-Turkish? He says buying Italian or French is ok but Turkish is "being fully dependent" why?

Don't forget Indonesia has sizable number of non-muslim citizen. They have good support from "Western" countries and they would like to see Indonesia become a slave country of Western word. They don't like any Muslim-Muslim cooperation. I have chance of work some of them. There are also some ppl call themselves Muslim and will always against any kind of cooperation between Muslim countries.

 

[Afif]

Don't forget Indonesia has sizable number of non-muslim citizen. They have good support from "Western" countries and they would like to see Indonesia become a slave country of Western word. They don't like any Muslim-Muslim cooperation. I have chance of work some of them. There are also some ppl call themselves Muslim and will always against any kind of cooperation between Muslim countries.

Let's not get carried away with conjecture and stay on topic.