TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Radko]

There is a project carried on by ASELSAN named as FEWS for Özgür's integrated EW

 

[Yasar_TR]

*I think this site compared earlier block F-16 A/B with C. Newer blocks have composite materials while block 10-20 made from metal. I don't think newer F-16 has larger RCS. Look at F-18 , RCS is :1.

*Edit: the information of the web site seems inaccurate or misleading.
Given 1.2 RCS might be for Have glass modernisation.
"Have Glass V F-16 will, on average, have a 1.2m² radar cross section, compared with about 5m² for an ‘untreated’ F-16, straight off the line."

View attachment 66973


View attachment 66970




@Yasar_TR

View attachment 66972
View attachment 66971

Please read this very informative

Establishing a secure connection ...

View attachment 66974

If you investigate a bit deeper, you will find that the latest Have Glass modified f16s had lower than 1m2 RCS value.
All our block 40 and block50 f16s have 5m2 RCS value. MMRCA version of F16 had a very low RCS value similar to Have Glass modified planes.

As can be seen from above graph block 30 F16C is in 1.2m2 RCS range.
Latest iteration of f18 planes had inherently low RCS.

 

[UkroTurk]

All our block 40 and block50 f16s have 5m2 RCS

No offense AbicimI could not find any info about B40/50 on internet.

As can be seen from above graph block 30 F16C is in 1.2m2 RCS range.

This page of global security has two different charts : F16 with 5mRCS is A block

Edit:I have very bad internet connection, on hurry I wrote BS.

So we don't know RCS of modern Viper.

 

[zio]

No offense AbicimI could not find any info about B40/50 on internet.


This page of global security has two different charts : F16 with 5mRCS is A block

Edit:I have very bad internet connection, on hurry I wrote BS.

So we don't know RCS of modern Viper.



View attachment 66980

I think its without external armament and fuel tanks so we have to know with them.

 

[uçuyorum]

At the end of the day F16 is never gonna be stealthy enough to withstand current systems and will we susceptible to most current AD systems to the point you just wouldn't try approaching someone beyond 100-150km if you know they have SAM systems in the area.

 

[UkroTurk]

I think its without external armament and fuel tanks so we have to know with them.

It's my mistake. Bad connection and wrote on hurry. Two charts are okay with each other.
I would like to know RCS of new modern vipers

 

[Nutuk]

Do we have F16 A/B's, by my knowledge not!

We have F16 C/D's only

 

[UkroTurk]

Do we have F16 A/B's, by my knowledge not!

We have F16 C/D's only

But soon we will have 40 pieces of block 70 VIPERS and Dear @Yasar_TR Abi says "The Block 70/72 have 5m RCS (new blocks have larger RCS than F16C) "

 

[uçuyorum]

But soon we will have 40 pieces of block 70 VIPERS and Dear @Yasar_TR Abi says "The Block 70/72 have 5m RCS (new blocks have larger RCS than F16C) "

Does the RCS figure of block 70s really matter? We have 3 stealth platforms being built for stealth needs. F16s won't be a substitute even if you apply newer stealth coating or whatever.

 

[boredaf]

Does the RCS figure of block 70s really matter? We have 3 stealth platforms being built for stealth needs. F16s won't be a substitute even if you apply newer stealth coating or whatever.

While they, 4.5 gen fighter jets, are not going to become completely irrelevant (as evidenced by the continued purchases and upgrade programs at work by every big military on the planet), their role will most likely change and everyone will try to simply increase their chances of survival by giving them electronic warfare suits and RAM coatings and other passive or active countermeasures because at the end of the day all those things will not cost as much as losing a plane and a pilot. And I think that is what we need to do as well.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Does the RCS figure of block 70s really matter? We have 3 stealth platforms being built for stealth needs. F16s won't be a substitute even if you apply newer stealth coating or whatever.

Bro do u really think Turkiye will buy new f16 from USA ? Because i dont think so , Perhaps will just buy convertion kits and some weapons but others will be converted to Özgur f16.
With that money of new f16 Turkey can order 10 New Tf 4500 frigates and some 10 Batteries of Siper SAMs

 

[YeşilVatan]

While they, 4.5 gen fighter jets, are not going to become completely irrelevant (as evidenced by the continued purchases and upgrade programs at work by every big military on the planet), their role will most likely change and everyone will try to simply increase their chances of survival by giving them electronic warfare suits and RAM coatings and other passive or active countermeasures because at the end of the day all those things will not cost as much as losing a plane and a pilot. And I think that is what we need to do as well.

Agreed. Even if they lose 10:1 to true 5th generation fighters, just the upkeep and operating costs being lower is a major selling point. And just think, would we use F-35s if we had them to do mundane peacetime tasks? I very much doubt so. 4th gen fighters will continue to be used well into the 2040s in my estimation.

 

[uçuyorum]

Agreed. Even if they lose 10:1 to true 5th generation fighters, just the upkeep and operating costs being lower is a major selling point. And just think, would we use F-35s if we had them to do mundane peacetime tasks? I very much doubt so. 4th gen fighters will continue to be used well into the 2040s in my estimation.

Depends on the region and mission profile. A small country with no proper air force.or air defence won't be an issue. F35 was meant to be the workhorse in a world where F16 could no longer operate due to SAM systems especially around Russia and areas where they have influence, even Syria potentially. F35 ended up being too expensive and long range SAM systems aren't in the inventory of every country yet.

 

[blackjack]

If you investigate a bit deeper, you will find that the latest Have Glass modified f16s had lower than 1m2 RCS value.
All our block 40 and block50 f16s have 5m2 RCS value. MMRCA version of F16 had a very low RCS value similar to Have Glass modified planes.

View attachment 66976
As can be seen from above graph block 30 F16C is in 1.2m2 RCS range.
Latest iteration of f18 planes had inherently low RCS.

No offense AbicimI could not find any info about B40/50 on internet.


This page of global security has two different charts : F16 with 5mRCS is A block

Edit:I have very bad internet connection, on hurry I wrote BS.

So we don't know RCS of modern Viper.



View attachment 66980

I am just throwing it out there that they gave, "average" RCS value to the F-16C, while giving "frontal" value of the F-22

The F-16C Average RCS of 1.2m2 makes sense on this since it takes all angles of the aircraft into account. Even from the front it can be as low as .001m2

We will never have the average RCS value of the F-22 like the F-16C

 

[UkroTurk]

 

[boredaf]

View attachment 67063

Mate, please stop using these glorified chatbots. Their answers will be what you can also find on the Internet at best, made up bullshit that sounds autorotative at worst. It is nothing but the laziest way of repeating the information available at its best iteration for now.

 

[Yasar_TR]

View attachment 67063

There is a saying in Turkish;
Even with a golden saddle a donkey is a donkey.
So, no matter what you do to a F16 plane it’s RCS is not going to be improved to a level whereby it can compete with a modern stealthy 5th generation jet. Nor will it have a stealthy airframe like the delta wing planes such as Rafale and Typhoons.
Also remember that, F16, carrying conformal fuel tanks, missiles and various guided ammunitions under its pylons will be compromised further as far as RCS is concerned.

Have Glass version V , actually improves the f16 RCS from 4-5m2 to close to 1m2. With the MMRCA version of F16 they have improved the air inlet duct to lower the plane’s RCS further, and managed below 0.9m2 value. .
Where as a Have Glass-V plane can be detected at 60Nm, the same untreated version can be detected at 90Nm distance according to tests carried out.
But the minute you start adding missiles and tanks on to the airframe, you are taking a back step

But if we are going to use our F16s until 2040s, we need to look in to every little bit of advantage we can gain by improving the paint, air duct, airframe, carry missiles with stealthy geometries etc.

 

[boredaf]

But if we are going to use our F16s until 2040s, we need to look in to every little bit of advantage we can gain by improving the paint, air duct, airframe, carry missiles with stealthy geometries etc.

All of this and not using them in situations when we don't have air superiority, basically use them to their strengths and not to their weaknesses.

 

[Quasar]

Till the arrival of KAAN not Viper but Özgür may have chance to hold its ground against superior enemy and even may be against 5 gen. in some cases. A logical speculation is that some system for KAAN may found a place in özgür for testing I mean for instance Manned & Unmanned pairing between KAAN and ANKA 3 (+super şimşek)& Kızılelma can be tested & applied to Özgür early on..... I mean As much as possible

 

[UkroTurk]

When do TurAF F-16s start with AI pilots?
TurAF has great experience with AI flights.

USA Will Test "Pilotless F-16s" to be Flown by Artificial Intelligence

US Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall will take to the air in the tests of pilotless F-16 jets that will fly under artificial intelligence control.

ivis.com.tr