TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[zio]

Özgür project
1.Structural update-some of the aircrafts finished
2. Avionic,IFF,and big displays upgrade-some of the aircrafts upgraded
2.Aesa nose radar-First flight conducted
3.Electronic warfare upgrade-no news so far
4.Stealth upgrade-no news
5. Link İnterconnection of the aircrafts-no news
6. Armament upgrade-Some parts are done but grow up with the Murad radar
7.EW pod,SAR pod,electro magnetic missiles,DIRCM, its not clear.

 

[boredaf]

4.Stealth upgrade-no news

Did they ever mention anything about this? Because other than slapping on a fresh coat of RAM paint there is nothing else they can do and I don't remember that ever being mentioned.

 

[Nutuk]

I think, also the Ozgur upgraded F16's will receive the IVEWS (internal) EW system and so an enhancement in stealth

 

[CAN_TR]

I think, also the Ozgur upgraded F16's will receive the IVEWS (internal) EW system and so an enhancement in stealth

168 IVEWS were ordered, 40 for the new F-16 and 118 for the upgraded, incl. some spare systems.

 

[Nutuk]

168 IVEWS were ordered, 40 for the new F-16 and 118 for the upgraded, incl. some spare systems.

118 - 79 (upgrade to V) = 39 (would cover the Ozgur upgrade)

I am not saying I am sure, but I think this will happen

 

[CAN_TR]

118 - 79 (upgrade to V) = 39 (would cover the Ozgur upgrade)

I am not saying I am sure, but I think this will happen

But the question is, is IVEWS interoperable with MURAD?

 

[Nutuk]

If the right agreements are made with Northrop Grumman why not?

 

[Aqerdf]

I think, also the Ozgur upgraded F16's will receive the IVEWS (internal) EW system and so an enhancement in stealth

FEWS would cover that spot.

 

[Yasar_TR]

F16C Block30 aircraft has an RCA value of 1.2 m2 as opposed to newer versions of F16 planes’ 5m2 according to below site.

Radar Cross Section (RCS)

www.globalsecurity.org

So our block 30 planes have a distinct stealth advantage compared with the newer F16s. With RAM paint addition it may even be better.

Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare System has been specifically produced to operate with SABR Aesa radar of V70 planes. It’s adaptability and operability with Murad and Özgür electronics is a question mark.
Also when Aselsan made such an advanced Aesa radar with GaN based TR modules, it is logical to expect an electronic warfare suite being readied to go along with Murad. After all, as the name suggests “ÖZGÜR” (FREE) wouldn’t be apt if we were to add a US produced EW suite to our Ozgur planes.

F-16 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) | Northrop Grumman

The AN/ALQ-257 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) is designed to give F-16 electronic warfare (EW) capabilities on a par with fifth-generation aircraft, significantly enhancing survivability for operations in contested and congested electromagnetic spectrum environments.

www.northropgrumman.com

 

[UkroTurk]

F16C Block30 aircraft has an RCA value of 1.2 m2 as opposed to newer versions of F16 planes’ 5m2 according to below site.

*I think this site compared earlier block F-16 A/B with C. Newer blocks have composite materials while block 10-20 made from metal. I don't think newer F-16 has larger RCS. Look at F-18 , RCS is :1.

*Edit: the information of the web site seems inaccurate or misleading.
Given 1.2 RCS might be for Have glass modernisation.
"Have Glass V F-16 will, on average, have a 1.2m² radar cross section, compared with about 5m² for an ‘untreated’ F-16, straight off the line."

@Yasar_TR

Please read this very informative

Have Glass: Making the F-16 less observable

You can’t turn an F-16 into a stealth fighter, it will always show up on enemy radar, but by reducing its radar signature, you can make it a lot less visible. We explain how the USAF has set about doing just that

www.key.aero

 

[Radonsider]

There is a project carried on by ASELSAN named as FEWS for Özgür's integrated EW

 

[Yasar_TR]

*I think this site compared earlier block F-16 A/B with C. Newer blocks have composite materials while block 10-20 made from metal. I don't think newer F-16 has larger RCS. Look at F-18 , RCS is :1.

*Edit: the information of the web site seems inaccurate or misleading.
Given 1.2 RCS might be for Have glass modernisation.
"Have Glass V F-16 will, on average, have a 1.2m² radar cross section, compared with about 5m² for an ‘untreated’ F-16, straight off the line."

View attachment 66973


View attachment 66970




@Yasar_TR

View attachment 66972
View attachment 66971

Please read this very informative

Have Glass: Making the F-16 less observable

You can’t turn an F-16 into a stealth fighter, it will always show up on enemy radar, but by reducing its radar signature, you can make it a lot less visible. We explain how the USAF has set about doing just that

www.key.aero

View attachment 66974

If you investigate a bit deeper, you will find that the latest Have Glass modified f16s had lower than 1m2 RCS value.
All our block 40 and block50 f16s have 5m2 RCS value. MMRCA version of F16 had a very low RCS value similar to Have Glass modified planes.

As can be seen from above graph block 30 F16C is in 1.2m2 RCS range.
Latest iteration of f18 planes had inherently low RCS.

 

[UkroTurk]

All our block 40 and block50 f16s have 5m2 RCS

No offense AbicimI could not find any info about B40/50 on internet.

As can be seen from above graph block 30 F16C is in 1.2m2 RCS range.

This page of global security has two different charts : F16 with 5mRCS is A block

Edit:I have very bad internet connection, on hurry I wrote BS.

So we don't know RCS of modern Viper.

 

[zio]

No offense AbicimI could not find any info about B40/50 on internet.


This page of global security has two different charts : F16 with 5mRCS is A block

Edit:I have very bad internet connection, on hurry I wrote BS.

So we don't know RCS of modern Viper.



View attachment 66980

I think its without external armament and fuel tanks so we have to know with them.

 

[uçuyorum]

At the end of the day F16 is never gonna be stealthy enough to withstand current systems and will we susceptible to most current AD systems to the point you just wouldn't try approaching someone beyond 100-150km if you know they have SAM systems in the area.

 

[UkroTurk]

I think its without external armament and fuel tanks so we have to know with them.

It's my mistake. Bad connection and wrote on hurry. Two charts are okay with each other.
I would like to know RCS of new modern vipers

 

[Nutuk]

Do we have F16 A/B's, by my knowledge not!

We have F16 C/D's only

 

[UkroTurk]

Do we have F16 A/B's, by my knowledge not!

We have F16 C/D's only

But soon we will have 40 pieces of block 70 VIPERS and Dear @Yasar_TR Abi says "The Block 70/72 have 5m RCS (new blocks have larger RCS than F16C) "

 

[uçuyorum]

But soon we will have 40 pieces of block 70 VIPERS and Dear @Yasar_TR Abi says "The Block 70/72 have 5m RCS (new blocks have larger RCS than F16C) "

Does the RCS figure of block 70s really matter? We have 3 stealth platforms being built for stealth needs. F16s won't be a substitute even if you apply newer stealth coating or whatever.

 

[boredaf]

Does the RCS figure of block 70s really matter? We have 3 stealth platforms being built for stealth needs. F16s won't be a substitute even if you apply newer stealth coating or whatever.

While they, 4.5 gen fighter jets, are not going to become completely irrelevant (as evidenced by the continued purchases and upgrade programs at work by every big military on the planet), their role will most likely change and everyone will try to simply increase their chances of survival by giving them electronic warfare suits and RAM coatings and other passive or active countermeasures because at the end of the day all those things will not cost as much as losing a plane and a pilot. And I think that is what we need to do as well.