TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[mohammadtd]

Let's not get carried away with conjecture and stay on topic.

I don't want to be carried away. However, unfortunately that's what i concluded from my personal experience.

 

[Umigami]

A bit off topic but why is that guy so anti-Turkish? He says buying Italian or French is ok but Turkish is "being fully dependent" why?

We aren't, just him.

 

[2033]

Since the F16 aircraft still belongs to the US, any modifications to be made on it are subject to the permission of the US. I don't think the US will allow a major modernization. Maybe they may allow Gökdoğan and Bozdoğan missiles and some guidance kits.

 

[Nutuk]

Since the F16 aircraft still belongs to the US, any modifications to be made on it are subject to the permission of the US. I don't think the US will allow a major modernization. Maybe they may allow Gökdoğan and Bozdoğan missiles and some guidance kits.

Depends on how old the F16's are

 

[AzeriTank]

A bit off topic but why is that guy so anti-Turkish? He says buying Italian or French is ok but Turkish is "being fully dependent" why?

and he always lie about Turkish products as it being not testes or as Turkey lies about the specifications. he worked for a western companies before, so here is the answer)

 

[Ryder]

Don't forget Indonesia has sizable number of non-muslim citizen. They have good support from "Western" countries and they would like to see Indonesia become a slave country of Western word. They don't like any Muslim-Muslim cooperation. I have chance of work some of them. There are also some ppl call themselves Muslim and will always against any kind of cooperation between Muslim countries.

A lot of the Christian Indonesians are also anti Turkish too.

Not surprised why they oppose Turkish cooperation.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Wasn't too sure where to put this but considering this thread houses a modernisation project I think it fits here

A series of details on Su-25 LAÇIN modernisation for Azerbaijan by TUSAŞ

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1838667126355431825

 

[Azeri441]

HÜRKUŞ will fly in the skies of Azerbaijan by the end of next year

TUSAŞ General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu stated, "Most of the permissions for the HÜRKUŞ project have been completed, and only a few steps remain. After finishing these in a few months, we expect to see our first flight in the skies of Azerbaijan towards the end of next year."

In Baku, at the ADEX Fair focusing on developments in defense and communication technologies, Demiroğlu shared with an AA reporter that they participated in the fair with the "two states, one nation" motto.

He highlighted ongoing projects in aviation and space industry with Azerbaijan, mentioning one of them is the modernization of Su-25 aircraft by TUSAŞ. He said, "We have successfully completed the first phase of this project, and the second phase is ongoing. The modernization project for the Su-25 aircraft will be completed very soon. We have the HÜRKUŞ project, which is of interest to the Azerbaijani Air Forces. Most permissions for the HÜRKUŞ project are completed, with only a few steps left. Once we finish those in a few months, we hope to see our first flight in the skies of Azerbaijan towards the end of next year."

Demiroğlu emphasized that Azerbaijan and Turkey operate under the "two states, one nation" principle, stating, "Whatever we have is also Azerbaijan's. We are doing our best to work together and will continue to do so."

He expressed satisfaction with TUSAŞ's presence at the ADEX Fair, noting that promising days are ahead for both TUSAŞ and Azerbaijan.

HÜRKUŞ gelecek senenin sonunda Azerbaycan semalarında uçacak

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Mehmet Demiroğlu, "HÜRKUŞ projesinde izinlerin birçoğu tamamlandı, birkaç adım kaldı. Onu da birkaç ay içerisinde tamamladıktan sonra önümüzdeki senenin sonuna doğru ilk uçuşumuzu Azerbaycan semalarında göreceğiz." dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

doesn't Hurkus use American engines? don't see how either Hurkus or Hurjet can be exported to Azerbaijan

 

[Saithan]

Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6

Also:

I really don't like how we seem to favour western engines so much, when we spend so much time R&D our own.

This is too much like in the past. If necessary we should make unmanned platforms to test the begesus out of the engines we're developing. 10k flight hours on unmanned platform that has similar weight / equivalent weight to manned platforms, add 30kg extra or whatever. should yield somewhat useful data and enable us to better test out with testpilots.

 

[Sanchez]

when we spend so much time R&D our own

We don't. Amount we spend is peanuts compared to bigger players. As such, we need to choose our battles. Developing a PT-6 alternative to build 100-300 units at most with no potential civilian market sales(PT6 is the most built turbine engine in existence and is very cheap compared to others) is just 1-3 billion in the drain until we absolutely need to. Baykar is selling PT6 powered Akıncıs to all over the world at this moment, including Pakistan.

 

[Saithan]

We don't. Amount we spend is peanuts compared to bigger players. As such, we need to choose our battles. Developing a PT-6 alternative to build 100-300 units at most with no potential civilian market sales(PT6 is the most built turbine engine in existence and is very cheap compared to others) is just 1-3 billion in the drain until we absolutely need to. Baykar is selling PT6 powered Akıncıs to all over the world at this moment, including Pakistan.

That may be so, but I'm pretty sure we've been told several times that with todays technology and our knowhow we don't need to spend as much time to develop our own piston engine as back in 1960's.

So yes, it may be cheap because they've managed to export millions or them, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't develop and produce our own, and try to reach that level of competency.

Why bother you may think, well I'm sure that's one of the reasons for teyyare ucak fabrikasi going the way it went

 

[Yasar_TR]

HÜRJET için teslimatlar ertelendi: İşte resmi son bilgiler - Kamu Haberleri

Savunma Sanayii Başkanlığı bir süre önce 2024-2028 Savunma Sanayii Sektörel Strateji Dokümanı’nı yayınlayarak gelecek dönemdeki faaliyetlere ilişkin b..

ekamu.net

According to above news piece, the Özgür-1 program, which entails constructional and avionics improvements of F16 block 30 jets will be completed in 2025.
Özgür-2 program that will give the Block-40 and Block-50 aircraft the improvements on avionics to bring them to the same level, will be finalised in 2027.

With these improvements the aircrafts will have new communication systems, new radar and flight control computers fitted.


EDIT

According to the below list of planes we have purchased, all of Peace Onyx-1 planes with the Peace Onyx-2‘s 40 x Block 50 F16s will be undergone Özgür modernisation. (Less those that have been lost)

Peace Onyx-3 and 4 have 79 surviving planes. They are awaiting US V70 kits.

So Apart from the last 79 planes all inventory of F16s will be free from US avionics and be fitted with Murad Aesa Radar. Bringing them to V70 level on paper. But most likely will have better Aesa Radar (Due to Murad having GaN T/R modules) and being an unknown entity with indigenous avionics and weapons, will be a very important asset.

 

[somegoodusername]

Özgür-1 program, which entails constructional and avionics improvements of F16 block 30 jets will be completed in 2025.

Does the Özgür-1 program includes MURAD Radar implementation and such?

 

[Tornadoss]

Does the Özgür-1 program includes MURAD Radar implementation and such?

Afaik, it should be part of Ozgur-2

 

[Sanchez]

Does the Özgür-1 program includes MURAD Radar implementation and such?

Özgür-1 is national mission computer, IFF and other avionics. Özgür-2 is new radar, Aselpod, national EW hardware, T-Link and new weapons including Gökdoğan AAM. Özgür-1 is for block 30s only, while Özgür-2 is for B30, 40 and 50s.

 

[somegoodusername]

Özgür-2 program that will give the Block-40 and Block-50 aircraft the improvements on avionics to bring them to the same level, will be finalised in 2027.

Özgür-1 is national mission computer, IFF and other avionics. Özgür-2 is new radar, Aselpod, national EW hardware, T-Link and new weapons including Gökdoğan AAM. Özgür-1 is for block 30s only, while Özgür-2 is for B30, 40 and 50s.

Can we do Özgür-2 project without signing any deal with the US? We bought F-16 block 40s and 50s with FMS. And I couldn't find and info about Özgür-2 project being finalised in 2027.

https://www.ssb.gov.tr/Images/Uploads/MyContents/F_20240917164305314800.pdf

 

[Saithan]

Do you guys think TuAF will use the modernized Özgür F-16 for their missions and save the standard F16 we have ?

I mean it's important to fly and test them and discover all deficiencies and such, to make better improvements and such.

 

[somegoodusername]

Do you guys think TuAF will use the modernized Özgür F-16 for their missions and save the standard F16 we have ?

I mean it's important to fly and test them and discover all deficiencies and such, to make better improvements and such.

And we still don’t have a testbed aircraft to test any of our systems in the air. What else could be more important to spend money on?

 

[Radko]

And we still don’t have a testbed aircraft to test any of our systems in the air. What else could be more important to spend money on?

We do have testbed aircraft. Even ASELSAN had put a picture of its console in 2023 report

 

[2033]

Özgür-1 is national mission computer, IFF and other avionics. Özgür-2 is new radar, Aselpod, national EW hardware, T-Link and new weapons including Gökdoğan AAM. Özgür-1 is for block 30s only, while Özgür-2 is for B30, 40 and 50s.

So, will the Block 30s undergo both Özgür-1 and Özgür-2 modernization?