TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

No Name

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No, there are success other than Turkey. And they aren't little. Anyway, I see what are you saying.

It's crucial to note that Turkish progressivism didn't spring from Ataturk alone, but rather, it was a byproduct of the transformative reforms set in motion by the Ottoman Sultans in the early 19th century. These reforms, a direct response to Western interference and conflicts, laid the foundation for Turkish progressivism. It's not just about establishing a livable state, but also about forging a nation capable of standing up to and prevailing over the West.

From a historical perspective, progressive Turks' efforts to distance themselves from the confrontational root have often led to National humiliation and outright rejection by the West. This can be attributed to the Turks being the historic 'other' that Europeans used to define their own identity, a dynamic that persisted for nearly a millennium.

Overall, Turks, due to their history of being the non-white, non-Christian group that was able to conquer and rule over Christian Europeans, have a drastically different relationship with the West than other Nations. These differences have had cultural ramifications that have echoed through the generations until the current one.
 

Corvus

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A better question is why do people have to follow a religion invented by Arabs 1400 years ago?
I don't remember saying such an absurd thing. On the contrary, I'm the one saying nobody has to follow any certain religion or ideology.

Believe or insult whatever you want. I don't care.

If you are done with your fallacies, let's come back to the real point of our discussion.

What happened with the claim about SOCAR protesters are being Islamists and all that islamophobic&oxymoronic gibberish?
 
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Corvus

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Corvus is opposed to our constitution, and there is a large, dangerous group in Türkiye who continually threaten to change the constitution and essentially threaten the statehood of Türkiye.

There is no difference between them and FETÖ or PKK at this point. In fact many of them are aligned with the aforementioned groups.
Constitutions are not dogmas. They're written by people and they often change if needed.

Atatürk, with his great vision, opposed the Ottoman constitution and established the Republic.

That being said, I don't remember me "opposing the constitution". On the contrary you are opposing it by imposing people a certain ideology.
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You attack Islam -fine by me- and replace the constitution in the place of a holy book as if it's written by God, then declare me as a terrorist threat just because I said people don't have to be nationalists?? Sorry mate but you don't make any sense.
 
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TheInsider

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That's what i am trying to say, i just don't think West is out there to get anyone just because who they are.
The West certainly came to accept the reality that we are here and will be in the foreseeable future(it was a bitter pill for them to swallow) but the West will do everything to keep us at a manageable size sometimes in an outright hostile way and most of the times with underhanded tactics.
 

Tonyukuk

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You're trying to save face.

A simple look at your post history unveils that you have no problem with Turkey becoming a refugee dumping ground.

Thank f*** you don't run this forum.

We're staring down the barrel of a shit storm because of the refugee crisis, but you care more about changing the constitution. GTFO man.
Constitutions are not dogmas. They're written by people and they often change if needed.

Atatürk, with his great vision, opposed the Ottoman constitution and established the Republic.

That being said, I don't remember me "opposing the constitution". On the contrary you are opposing it by imposing people a certain ideology.
*
You attack Islam -fine by me- and replace the constitution in the place of a holy book as if it's written by God, then declare me as a terrorist threat just because I said people don't have to be nationalists?? Sorry mate but you don't make any sense.
 

Ryder

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Constitutions are not dogmas. They're written by people and they often change if needed.

Atatürk, with his great vision, opposed the Ottoman constitution and established the Republic.

That being said, I don't remember me "opposing the constitution". On the contrary you are opposing it by imposing people a certain ideology.
*
You attack Islam -fine by me- and replace the constitution in the place of a holy book as if it's written by God, then declare me as a terrorist threat just because I said people don't have to be nationalists?? Sorry mate but you don't make any sense.

The problem is lots of people believe the Ottomans did not have a consitituion which is pretty BS.

The Empire was 600 years old but people treat it as if they were living at Osman Gazis time.

The Empire has transformed itself numerous times but the popular discourse it was like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

Two vastly different states, different cultures.

If we gonna go by GDP. Congo even has a bigger GDP than the Roman Empire.

Osman Gazi lived in a nomadic tent like all Turkic people same with Genghis Khan. Overtime their descendants became more settled and lived in palaces as the empire grew.

No they were longer the Nomads but people who have now settled and live in a sedentary lifestyle.

Did Islam play a role in this? Yes and No. Lots of Nomads regardless if they are Turkic, Bedoiun and Berber living like their ancestors in the past who are Muslim but still live a nomadic lifestyle.

More to do with the fact that Nomads began to live in cities and their descendants were raised there overtime became more sedantary rather than religion playing a role. Turks becoming Muslim did help them settle in numerous parts of the Islamic World as we see in Egypt, Syria and Iraq.

Same story can be said about the Republic of Turkiye which is now 100 years old as the 1930s is different to todays Republic. Nothing stays the same.
 

Tonyukuk

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Same story can be said about the Republic of Turkiye which is now 100 years old as the 1930s is different to todays Republic. Nothing stays the same.
Bro, things change I agree.

But this government isn't going to amend the constitution for a good reason. We all know they use it to facilitate their corruption.
 

Corvus

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You're trying to save face.

A simple look at your post history unveils that you have no problem with Turkey becoming a refugee dumping ground.

Thank f*** you don't run this forum.

We're staring down the barrel of a shit storm because of the refugee crisis, but you care more about changing the constitution. GTFO man.
Save face? For what exactly? I wasn't the one falsely branding people as Islamists and then proven wrong.
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This is a forum and I can freely express my ideas in any topic that I wish.

And how did you come to conclusion that I "care more about changing the constitution"? I never said such a thing. You're making up false conclusions based on an image in your mind.
 

Ryder

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Whats im interested right now.

Is why is Mongolia so hestitant to joining the Turkic World while Hungary wants to join the Turkic Council?

Mongolia for decades in particular has never made any moves to get closer to Turkiye and the Turkic World in general.

Mongolia is better off getting closer with the Turkic World because not to mention its sandwiched between Russia and China. Russia and China treat Mongolia more like a buffer state but what happens in the future that Mongolia buffer state gets past its use by date?
 

Tonyukuk

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Whats im interested right now.

Is why is Mongolia so hestitant to joining the Turkic World while Hungary wants to join the Turkic Council?

Mongolia for decades in particular has never made any moves to get closer to Turkiye and the Turkic World in general.

Mongolia is better off getting closer with the Turkic World because not to mention its sandwiched between Russia and China. Russia and China treat Mongolia more like a buffer state but what happens in the future that Mongolia buffer state gets past its use by date?

They were part of TAKM but I don't think that's around anymore.
 

Aqerdf

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Whats im interested right now.

Is why is Mongolia so hestitant to joining the Turkic World while Hungary wants to join the Turkic Council?

Mongolia for decades in particular has never made any moves to get closer to Turkiye and the Turkic World in general.

Mongolia is better off getting closer with the Turkic World because not to mention its sandwiched between Russia and China. Russia and China treat Mongolia more like a buffer state but what happens in the future that Mongolia buffer state gets past its use by date?


I don't know, but they're looks like so happy about giving yearly herd animal (fvking sheep tax! and in 21st Century!) taxation to China. So much of holliness from Cenghis's grandchildrens, yeah.

Jokes aside, from geopolitically, Mongolia is done afaik. Soviets and PRC carved them up so bad. And remaining leftovers are holding tightly to FETÖ for for US linkage.
 

Ryder

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I don't know, but they're looks like so happy about giving yearly herd animal (fvking sheep tax! and in 21st Century!) taxation to China. So much of holliness from Cenghis's grandchildrens, yeah.

Jokes aside, from geopolitically, Mongolia is done afaik. Soviets and PRC carved them up so bad. And remaining leftovers are holding tightly to FETÖ for for US linkage.

There is more Mongols living outside of Mongolia.

China hasnt been treating Inner Mongolia right at all. After China is done with the Uygurs the Hui Muslims and the Mongolians are next on the chopping block.

Im not saying Mongolia should sacrifice itself for Turan. But man their future is bleak. Turkiye and the Turkic World would actually benefit Mongolia.

Mongolians and Tajiks have this sort of outright hostility to Turks when they are better off bolstering their relations with the Turkic World.

Tajiks are Persians but a lot of them have Turkic features. Tajiks are basically half Iranic and Half Turkic. So stupid to be hostile.

A lot of Turks from Turkiye found Tajikistan attack on Kyrgzstan uncalled for even backstabbing. Tajiks basically abused our goodwill.

The dispute only helped Russia, China and Iran.
 

Ryder

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They were part of TAKM but I don't think that's around anymore.

TAKM is still around but Mongolia left.

Kazakhstan applied for membership.

Turkmenistan is a hard nut to crack but they are a country that prefers Neutrality. Either way Turkmenistan is not hostile they have been pretty close with the Turkic Council and have begun to open up to the world.

Same with Uzbekistan.

We see lots of moves in the Great Central Asian Game.
 

Sanchez

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I have some facts for you instead of made-up accusations.

The group that is organizing these protests against SOCAR is called "Filistin İçin Bin Genç" and the founders of this group are leftists. They have people from every ideology and some of them are my atheist friends. They even got beaten by the police in İstiklal Avenue with the support of these so-called "islamist" ak-trolls. They even accused them of being DHKPC terrorists.

Also the same "islamist" group openly confronts MÜSİAD:


Your "İslamists"are on Evrensel -which is EMEP- :


Some tweets of the founder of this "islamist" group:



Sure, İslamists are known for having beef with MÜSİAD, being targeted by ak-trolls and interviewing with leftist media. LOL.

I guess facts don't matter in this forum but I still love exposing ignorance.
I didn’t call them islamists. It wouldn’t be the first time leftist or general opposition figures got railroaded into becoming fifth columnists or little helpers. I’m old enough to remember 2008, 2011, 2013 and 2015. Makeup of the group’s members have no relevancy. A 15 year old can see that with all their positions, this is an Iranian venture in Turkey. If only we had actual financial police and free media to chase their income and possible handlers.

"Nation comes first" is basically nationalism.

So everybody can follow their ideology but they must be nationalists as well? What kind of oxymoron is that? How can someone be, lets say communist, islamist or globalist and nationalist at the same time? That's like supporting Fenerbahçe and Galatasaray at the same time for anyone that knows basic definition of mentioned ideologies.

Also why people has to follow an ideology that is invented by the French 250 years ago? Are we living in a fascist state or something?
Exactly my point. If someone is an islamist, a communist, globalist or a nationalist of another nation, they cannot be a Turkish nationalist. Unless they’re a Turkish nationalist, they are a possible security threat and shouldn’t be given power(be it institutional or popular power) in our country. This a unitary nation state. Over the last century and more, we’ve seen different forms of models being presented as better, all those models ended up costing us money, security and lives. You for example might believe that a federation with KDP and N Syria is a better future for Turkey where not your nationality but your religion matters while I reserve my belief to see you as a security threat to my nation and our way of life. That simple. It’s a democracy.
 

Iskander

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TAKM is still around but Mongolia left.

Kazakhstan applied for membership.

Turkmenistan is a hard nut to crack but they are a country that prefers Neutrality. Either way Turkmenistan is not hostile they have been pretty close with the Turkic Council and have begun to open up to the world.

Same with Uzbekistan.

We see lots of moves in the Great Central Asian Game.
Eurasia Review: Türkiye and Azerbaijan have broken Russian dominance

The Organization of Turkic States, led by Turkey and Azerbaijan, became a major defense and financial force throughout the Caucasus and Central Asia. Eurasia Review writes about this.

The portal’s analysts’ review notes that Türkiye and Azerbaijan broke Russia’s dominance over the Turkic states. “While Russian power is declining, military cooperation between the Turkic states is growing”
Analysts say Turkey, which has both NATO weapons and a very large domestic defense market, is the region's top choice in these areas, unlike Russia, whose weapons and training are outdated. It is noted that in the field of defense, the partnership between Turkey and Azerbaijan offers countries an example of a successful security structure in the region.

 

Tornadoss

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I have some facts for you instead of made-up accusations.

The group that is organizing these protests against SOCAR is called "Filistin İçin Bin Genç" and the founders of this group are leftists. They have people from every ideology and some of them are my atheist friends. They even got beaten by the police in İstiklal Avenue with the support of these so-called "islamist" ak-trolls. They even accused them of being DHKPC terrorists.

Also the same "islamist" group openly confronts MÜSİAD:


Your "İslamists"are on Evrensel -which is EMEP- :


Some tweets of the founder of this "islamist" group:



Sure, İslamists are known for having beef with MÜSİAD, being targeted by ak-trolls and interviewing with leftist media. LOL.

I guess facts don't matter in this forum but I still love exposing ignorance.
Islamist are threat regardless who these guys who are behind attack to SOCAR or Azerbaijan.
Islamist = group or individuals who are using religion to gain political power. Right now one of the biggest threats is Menzil. They are everywhere in the state position no different than feto. Then, those who takes millions of refugees without any control or plan.
 

Tornadoss

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As an admin of this forum which clearly sites that all members should adhere to the rules especially not insulting religions, I find this a very short-sighted and naive way of describing the religion of the majority of Turks and nearly a quarter of the world's population.
Truly disappointing to see the regurgitation of mainstream Islamophobic media becoming a normality here.
No wonder other members attacking Islam do it so often with no consequences.
You're supposed to lead by example and be a role model here.
This is the issue with Islam or maybe Muslims. An atheist person can say that religions are hoax there is no God etc. It's not insult it's a persons personal view.
 

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