TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[godel44]

Bad turn of events in diplomacy in the recent days. First mistake was to give Azov prisoners back to Ukraine. This is a big disruption to the balance with Russia and even more importantly it is a breach of promise. If you made that deal, you should have kept your end.

This linking of Sweden's entry with EU membership is another blunder. Objecting to Sweden based on PKK activity there was very valid. Turkey was objecting to Americans linking this to F-16 sales and denying any accusation of blackmail. Now Erdogan went back and linked it to the irrelevant topic of EU membership. This justifies the earlier blackmail accusations, makes Erdogan look like he's abusing veto power for any scrap of gain and actually weakens our positions against PKK. And all for the sake of something like EU membership which we don't even want.

I hope Fidan is involved and there is something resembling a coherent strategy behind this mess. Even if they wanted to delay Sweden's membership they could have found something else that would not show Turkey in such a bad light.

 

[Ecderha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1678397615069691904

It is so funny.
usa does NOT have Any power on EU membership.
But usa decide to speak and make funny statements

 

[Rodeo]

Every major media outlet have the news on their main page, talking how "Turkey is trying to extort membership from the EU". It's hard to believe how crudely and publicly the foreign diplomacy is being handled. Sweden has scored a major point, demonstrating that they're not the problem but us. They don't have to prove anything anymore. We have put ourselves on the spot.

God help us getting through this blunder unscathed.

Bad feelings

 

[Rodeo]

I guess Sweden is in.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1678484703060324359

 

[TheInsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1678484703060324359

This is a huge mistake. I don't know how many times Erdo is tricked I lost the count.

 

[RMZN]

Is there any official statement from the Turkish or Swedish side? Stoltenberg is just a simple NATO mouthpiece after all.

 

[YeşilVatan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1678489976873566208

Yep we got bamboozled again. There is zero chance eurotrash will concede these terms. I hope we release refugees upon these vermin this time.

 

[GoatsMilk]

I guess Sweden is in.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1678484703060324359

its almost like he's meant to make Turkiye and Muslims look bad in the non Muslim world. Like were constantly trying to cheat and swindle everyone while never sticking to our word. Basically the stereotype of the shady middle easterner.

Sweden supports extreme left wing marxist terrorists against Turkiye, but shitty politics from erdogan makes us look like not only the guy in the wrong, but like were absolute shitheads.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Does it really matter though? Even before any quran burnings I havent seen a single western media outlet outline how Turkeys opposition to Swedish NATO membership was due to PKK activities. Some articles didnt even mention that the PKK was a terror group.

Both European and Turkish lawmakers know that Turkey will never join the EU. They dont care how legitimate Turkeys arguments are, because they are the ones that have been promoting anti-Turkish rhetoric for decades. You cant reason with a Person that doesnt want to listen or wants to interpret everything you say in a different way.

This situation can also be an attempt from Erdogan to relieve some of the pressure coming from the US, by throwing the ball into another court. Either way, it backs Erdogan into a corner because if the EU doesnt make any concessions he wont be able to let Sweden into NATO without loosing his strongman image at home. On the other hand he could once again throw Turkish security interests out of the window to secure some sweet talk from the EU regarding turkish EU membership to grab some more CHP votes before the next elections.

No doubts the media is pursuing a united agenda against us. But in the halls of power we cannot look like a belly dancer. We basically showed the world that anyone can support the PKK and we dont really care, we will bark and dance, but in the end we will come running back with our tail between our legs. As a result you encourage the enemies to intensify efforts against us. And have we not watched this in real time with the PKK and their support the receive. The more we capitulated the more they supported them. Its a bit like Ukraine most of europe basically left them alone to their fate, but the moment they realised that ukraine had legs to take on Russia everyone rushed in to support Ukraine. We pissed around with the PKK and our enemies exploited it.

Arming and harbouring these terrorists in another age is a declaration of war, but no one is worried about upsetting Turkiye anymore. They know were not a serious nation. They know new Turkiye is nowhere near as politically strong as old Turkiye.

Yeah our country got bigger and our military capacity has improved, but politically and diplomatically we have massively regressed. Every month we see a new diplomatic and political blunder.

Its fascinating to watch all this failure constantly being rewarded by the Turkish people, its like they enjoy being humilated globally.

 

[moz68k]

Honestly the west's mind was always set. EU was never going to happen and it was delusional to think otherwise. The mantra of "too Big, too Poor and too Muslim" holds true, and all three facts are intrinsic and permanent from a western perspective.

Even in the best of light the west's outlook on Turkey was never positive—always different. In my years of studying, working and living in the west, I have witnessed this incessant orientalism. When I talk to even the most educated of Europeans and especially North Americans, they all seem to cling on this preconceived notion that that Turkey is a desert with camels where women can't drive. A (private) schoolteacher who spoke 6 languages confidently explained how our geography was a desert (not desertif[ied/ing], mind you—I asked for clarification). In the Netherlands, its largest supermarket chain has a tub of Turkish-style yoghurt adorned with palm trees, camels and flying fucking carpets. This has become such a sore point in the minds of educated Turks that most violently reject anything to do with irrefutable parts of our past. No doubt, some members will conjure this demeaning orientalist image and project it to the current political climate, a reflection of this inherent insecurity that, I am ashamed to admit, I also possess.

The majority in the west refuse to understand us, instead they hold on to their preconceptions built over centuries of "those evil Turks in the east" either consciously or unconsciously. The truth is, our relationship has always been transactional. It was the case during the cold war; our EU prospects; our entry and subsequent shafting when entering the EUCU; ditto the migrant crisis. Hell, modern diplomacy was invented so the Italians could essentially communicate with the Ottomans. Every action that Erdo does which doesn't fit their bill of Nordic Exceptionalism—actions that are not much worse than Orban, Morawiecki, or Mitsotakis—only concretize these preconceptions of "Turk bad". Perhaps he has come to embrace this position.

So the mask is off. If they see the emphasis of our legitimate security concerns as a condition for Sweden's (merely symbolic) entry into NATO as purely transactional, then why shouldn't we escalate? F-16V's will be too little, too late anyway. Are we the bad guy? To them, yes. Do they still have to deal with us? Absolutely. They have been doing so literally for millennia.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

Honestly the west's mind was always set. EU was never going to happen and it was delusional to think otherwise. The mantra of "too Big, too Poor and too Muslim" holds true, and all three facts are intrinsic and permanent from a western perspective.

Even in the best of light the west's outlook on Turkey was never positive—always different. In my years of studying, working and living in the west, I have witnessed this incessant orientalism. When I talk to even the most educated of Europeans and especially North Americans, they all seem to cling on this preconceived notion that that Turkey is a desert with camels where women can't drive. A (private) schoolteacher who spoke 6 languages confidently explained how our geography was a desert (not desertif[ied/ing], mind you—I asked for clarification). In the Netherlands, its largest supermarket chain has a tub of Turkish-style yoghurt adorned with palm trees, camels and flying fucking carpets. This has become such a sore point in the minds of educated Turks that most violently reject anything to do with irrefutable parts of our past. No doubt, some members will conjure this demeaning orientalist image and project it to the current political climate, a reflection of this inherent insecurity that, I am ashamed to admit, I also possess.

The majority in the west refuse to understand us, instead they hold on to their preconceptions built over centuries of "those evil Turks in the east" either consciously or unconsciously. The truth is, our relationship has always been transactional. It was the case during the cold war; our EU prospects; our entry and subsequent shafting when entering the EUCU; ditto the migrant crisis. Hell, modern diplomacy was invented so the Italians could essentially communicate with the Ottomans. Every action that Erdo does which doesn't fit their bill of Nordic Exceptionalism—actions that are not much worse than Orban, Morawiecki, or Mitsotakis—only concretize these preconceptions of "Turk bad". Perhaps he has come to embrace this position.

So the mask is off. If they see the emphasis of our legitimate security concerns as a condition for Sweden's (merely symbolic) entry into NATO as purely transactional, then why shouldn't we escalate? F-16V's will be too little, too late anyway. Are we the bad guy? To them, yes. Do they still have to deal with us? Absolutely. They have been doing so literally for millennia.

Türkiye should take their gloves off and stop acting so fucking weak. They see us as the enemy. Always have, and always will be.

If there would be a poll in EU like, which Country do you hate more, Russia or Türkiye. I swear, I'm not sure of the outcome. And we aren't even at war.

 

[Rodeo]

NATO Press Statement

1. On 10 July, 2023, President Recep Tayyip Erdoǧan of Türkiye, Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson of Sweden, and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg met at the NATO Summit in Vilnius.
   
2. Since the last NATO Summit, Sweden and Türkiye have worked closely together to address Türkiye’s legitimate security concerns. As part of that process, Sweden has amended its constitution, changed its laws, significantly expanded its counter- terrorism cooperation against the PKK, and resumed arms exports to Türkiye, all steps set out in the Trilateral Memorandum agreed in 2022.
   
3. Sweden and Türkiye agree today to continue their cooperation under both the Trilateral Permanent Joint Mechanism established at the Madrid NATO Summit 2022, and under a new bilateral Security Compact that will meet annually at ministerial level and create working groups as appropriate. At the first meeting of this Security Compact, Sweden will present a roadmap as the basis of its continued fight against terrorism in all its forms and manifestations towards the full implementation of all elements of the Trilateral Memorandum, including article 4. Sweden reiterates that it will not provide support to YPG/PYD, and the organisation described as FETÖ in Türkiye.
   
4. Both Sweden and Türkiye agreed that counter-terrorism cooperation is a long-term effort, which will continue beyond Sweden’s accession to NATO. Secretary General Stoltenberg also reconfirmed that NATO categorically condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. NATO will be significantly stepping up its work in this area, including by the Secretary General establishing, for the first time at NATO, the post of Special Coordinator for Counter-Terrorism.
   
5. We commit to the principle that there should be no restrictions, barriers or sanctions to defence trade and investment among Allies. We will work towards eliminating such obstacles.
   
6. Sweden and Türkiye have also agreed to step up economic cooperation, through the Türkiye-Sweden Joint Economic and Trade Committee (JETCO). Both Türkiye and Sweden will look to maximise opportunities to increase bilateral trade and investments. Sweden will actively support efforts to reinvigorate Türkiye’s EU accession process, including modernisation of the EU-Türkiye Customs Union and visa liberalisation.
   
7. On this basis, and given the imperatives of the deterrence and defence of the Euro- Atlantic area, Türkiye will transmit the Accession Protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly, and work closely with the Assembly to ensure ratification.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_217147.htm?selectedLocale=en

 

[Xenon54]

This is a huge mistake. I don't know how many times Erdo is tricked I lost the count.

Another typical big mouthery by our dünya lideri...

 

[GoatsMilk]

Türkiye should take their gloves off and stop acting so fucking weak. They see us as the enemy. Always have, and always will be.

If there would be a poll in EU like, which Country do you hate more, Russia or Türkiye. I swear, I'm not sure of the outcome. And we aren't even at war.

Much of the hate derives from our historical greatness. Remember whites for a long time used to openly believe that they were the worlds most superior race. Even Darwin who saw whites as the most evolved man mentioned the fall of Ottoman power as proof that whites were indeed superior. Obvious euro centric bullshit that ignores while the Ancient Egyptians had built the pyramids, the europeans were living in mud huts, running about naked and eating each other. People rise and people fall, greatness is not unique to any one race.

As far as our politicians are concerned they must have skills to be shrewd politicians and diplomats, they should be winning not running our nation into the ground. The fact we have to deal with so many problems means we need great men to navigate these troubled times.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

As far as our politicians are concerned they must have skills to be shrewd politicians and diplomats, they should be winning not running our nation into the ground

I have the feeling that our education system doesn't produce proper potential politicians. And if it does, they don't reach the top because of the obvious.

 

[YeşilVatan]

I have the feeling that our education system doesn't produce proper potential politicians. And if it does, they don't reach the top because of the obvious.

Education system? Bro these are petty merchants and muhtar level local politicians. I'd bet a week's wages that most of their diplomas are fake.

 

[dBSPL]

The refugee and Syria problem, visa-free travel, I don't have much hope on these issues. But fast steps can be taken on updating the customs union and fighter jet procurement. Because the preparations on these issues are almost complete.

 

[dBSPL]

Just 3 days ago RTE stated that Ukraine deserves NATO membership and clearly supports them. There are less than a handful of NATO member states that can say this openly. So, TR's legitimate demands have nothing to do with undermining NATO interests, as is propagated against them. On the contrary, it has one of the most hawkish positions. The issue with Sweden was not an outcome of Russian-Turkish rapprochement, but directly related to Sweden's inability to offer solid assurances on issues threatening Turkish national interests. As a result, serious leverage was created in favor us TR, probably inadvertently.

I don't know if this agreement will be fulfilled one-to-one. I think there will continue to be problems on many issues. But I think the general strategy still right.

Also, Parliament will open in October. If the necessary congressional approval for the fighter jet procurement is delayed until October, do you think the Turkish Parliament will give its approval to Sweden, or even more broadly: Hungary and Turkiye have no coordination in the power game?

 

[Bozan]

I guess Sweden is in.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1678484703060324359

Just 3 days ago RTE stated that Ukraine deserves NATO membership and clearly supports them. There are less than a handful of NATO member states that can say this openly. So, TR's legitimate demands have nothing to do with undermining NATO interests, as is propagated against them. On the contrary, it has one of the most hawkish positions. The issue with Sweden was not an outcome of Russian-Turkish rapprochement, but directly related to Sweden's inability to offer solid assurances on issues threatening Turkish national interests. As a result, serious leverage was created in favor us TR, probably inadvertently.

I don't know if this agreement will be fulfilled one-to-one. I think there will continue to be problems on many issues. But I think the general strategy still right.

Also, Parliament will open in October. If the necessary congressional approval for the fighter jet procurement is delayed until October, do you think the Turkish Parliament will give its approval to Sweden, or even more broadly: Hungary and Turkiye have no coordination in the power game?

Wonder how deep the lira will slide until then. Erdogan has the weaker hand for sure.

 

[Barry]

classic erdogan watermelon-walla tactics.