TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[TheInsider]

There is no official embargo for F-404 engines.
Engines for the prototypes are delivered and are currently in TAI.
F-404 is an old engine and can't possibly be embargoed unless congress passes a law. Transaction related to payment of the engines is also lower than the embargo threshold (The threshold is 25M $ if I remember correctly).
GE as a company can apply its own embargo but this prospect is close to impossible.
An order is placed for serial production but no engine is delivered as of yet due to the delivery schedule. If there will ever be an embargo IMHO this order will be targeted.

 

[Fairon]

I wonder if we will have problems with serially producing Hürjet.

Or getting some more F110s for the first batch as the national engine will be integrated and will start it's testing phase, (let's say no delay and test schedule of 2 years) will be ready for used in serially produced aircraft by 2030s, this means 2 years of delay on project

We most likely will. Even if we don't have problems with our own trainer version we definetly will have problems with the exports or armed version.

 

[dBSPL]

TAI GM Kotil:
"HÜRJET will fly on March 18, 2023. Serial production will start in 2025 for the Air Force."
"The Hürjet is a state-of-the-art device."
"It is a small F-16, but don't be fooled by its small size; it will be a small monster with its ASELSAN radars and Roketsan missiles."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585975198334984192

 

[Radonsider]

TAI GM Kotil:
"HÜRJET will fly on March 18, 2023. Serial production will start in 2025 for the Air Force."
"The Hürjet is a state-of-the-art device."
"It is a small F-16, but don't be fooled by its small size; it will be a small monster with its ASELSAN radars and Roketsan missiles."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585975198334984192

Wasn't the radar Grifo-E??

 

[Altay2071]

Eh ? Remember when they said it was not necessary to develop an engine for Hurjet ? See the result now. They should have developed an engine from day one. Nothing has been learned from the Altay. Unbelievable.

Yes these guys seem never to learn. And now they are still waiting with RR and Eurofighters and losing time.

 

[Altay2071]

TAI GM Kotil:
"HÜRJET will fly on March 18, 2023. Serial production will start in 2025 for the Air Force."
"The Hürjet is a state-of-the-art device."
"It is a small F-16, but don't be fooled by its small size; it will be a small monster with its ASELSAN radars and Roketsan missiles."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585975198334984192

If it is a small monster why the air force is buying only 16 of them? Or why are we trying to buy tranche 1 EF? If a strong radar and a good missile sufficient for BVR fight, then why dont we just produce 100 hürjets and 100 Kizilelmas? These are the questions that come to my mind with my very limited understanding of air warfare.

 

[TheInsider]

If it is a small monster why the air force is buying only 16 of them? Or why are we trying to buy tranche 1 EF? If a strong radar and a good missile sufficient for BVR fight, then why dont we just produce 100 hürjets and 100 Kizilelmas? These are the questions that come to my mind with my very limited understanding of air warfare.

Airforce will buy the trainer version and deliveries will start in 2025. The light fighter-armed version will be evaluated separately.

 

[MADDOG]

If it is a small monster why the air force is buying only 16 of them? Or why are we trying to buy tranche 1 EF? If a strong radar and a good missile sufficient for BVR fight, then why dont we just produce 100 hürjets and 100 Kizilelmas? These are the questions that come to my mind with my very limited understanding of air warfare.

Expect that number to rise. Eurofighter is on a completely different league. Hürjet's AESA radar is decent but the airframe is limited when it comes to what it can actually carry. It will also be lacking some of the sensors the Eurofighter is equipped with. So, yes it is a SMALL monster. TurAF is in need of such aircraft, but believe you me it needs something like the Eurofighter or the F-16V more.

 

[Yasar_TR]

If it is a small monster why the air force is buying only 16 of them? Or why are we trying to buy tranche 1 EF? If a strong radar and a good missile sufficient for BVR fight, then why dont we just produce 100 hürjets and 100 Kizilelmas? These are the questions that come to my mind with my very limited understanding of air warfare.

1. 16 piece order is the starter-order as far as orders go with regards to Hurjet. TuAF needs a lot more than that. Currently there are 68 T38s active out of 78 in the fleet. So we will most likely buy more than the T38s we have in the inventory to replace all these old trainers. Then there should be Light Attack version quantities TuAF will order.

Fleet list Turkey - Air Force - Northrop T-38 Talon

2. Tranche 1 EF coming with full access to source codes will mean we will be able to turn them in to very capable 4++ generation fighters. You can’t even compare F16s against these twin engined monsters, never mind our small Hurjets. When coupled with most modern avionics and an Aesa radar, it will become an unbeatable fighting machine. The nose of the Typhoon is so big that it can accommodate one of the largest Aesa radars. Bigger Nose means bigger Aesa radar and that means more T/R modules and that means more powerful and longer range Aesa radar. A Typhoon can carry 14 Meteor missiles in beast mode. It can carry more than 9 tons of weapons.

3. Hurjet is basically designed and manufactured as a trainer aircraft. As a “secondary” capability it can be used as a light attack aircraft.

4. KE, is a stealthy UCAV with limited payload. It’s combat envelope is quite different. It will complement and complete a manned fighter jet. Due to it’s nose size it’s Aesa will not be as powerful.

5. Finally we don’t know how effective a Hurjet light attack craft or a KE will be in real life until we have them in operational conditions for a while. But we know what a Typhoon class aircraft can do.

 

[Altay2071]

Thanks for the replies! Then I repeat my previous call that we should really buy those EFs quickly and adapt them to our needs within couple of years at most. At this point any further hesitation or a naive hope for F16V will be disastrous. If they come then also ok, 40 more wont do any harm to our air force till 2035!

 

[Afif]

@Yasar from Wikipedia it seems that, even without any external fuel tank the maximum weapon load of EFT is 7.5 tons.

I am not sure how more than 9 ton ammunition load can be possible! By reducing internal fuel ?

 

[Combat-Master]

Wasn't the radar Grifo-E??

It never was Grifo-E, some BS someone made up because they saw 3D rendering look similar..

 

[dBSPL]

@Yasar from Wikipedia it seems that, the maximum weapon load of EFT can be 7.5 tons.

The aircraft is designed to carry 6 x medium-range and 2 x short-range air-to-air missiles. The aircraft has 13 x store stations and an internal gun fitted on the starboard side.

Typical weapon configs in RAF:

Armament	1 x 27mm (first RAF batch only)
Air Interdiction	2 x Storm Shadow
	2 x ALARM
	4 x AMRAAM
	2 x ASRAAM
	2 x 1,500litre fuel tank
	1 x 1,000litre fuel tank
Close Air Support	18 x Brimstone
	4 x AMRAAM
	2 x ASRAAM
	1 x 1,000 litre fuel tank
SEAD	6 x ALARM
	4 x AMRAAM
	2 x ASRAAM
	1 x 1,000litre fuel tank
Maritime Attack	4 x Penguin
	4 x AMRAAM
	2 x ASRAAM
	2 x 1,500litre fuel tank
	1 x 1,000litre fuel tank

 

[Rajendra Chola]

I asked again just to be sure. It has become clear that an embargo has been placed on Hürjet prototypes.

Why would GE do that? Turkey is an huge market for them. And Turkey is not trying to steal tech like the Chinese here.

 

[Heartbang]

Why would GE do that? Turkey is an huge market for them. And Turkey is not trying to steal tech like the Chinese here.

its been a long while since the Americans as a culture lost any and everything that made them excel in the face of tyranny and adversity. the "wokeism" has throughly infiltrated the American mindset, like a chestburster who found an especially juicy victim to impregnate.

Your average American used to be a fella who had a pragmatic world view, working moral compass, and a resolve to see things through. nowadays an American is a 300 kg of genderless blob whos mental facilities have been deteriorated to a point that all of the thought of that mind of his are to be spoon-fed by an agressive AF corpo media, to be chanted at the mark. your average american now has 3 sentences in its vocabulary:

1. Fuck you, pay me!
2. I'm triggered!
3. Wanna smash?

It's a neo-communist world on the other side of the ocean, fellas. and commies dont do half-ass oppression.

Have you noticed that all the corpos who left the Russian market after the invasion of Ukraine, did so on their own volition, without waiting any directive from neither the EU or the White House? thats because they are afraid of being "cancelled" in the eyes of brainwashed Western public. Mark my words, when the tensions with Greece eventually boil over, you'll see the exact same thing happen to us. GE, Netflix, McDonalds, Burger King, Starbucks, Fiat, Renault... theyre all going to fuck off into the sunset, even if it means they'll be at a financial loss because of it. because they'll be busy honoring some fat Twitter mob whos making one impossible demand after another.

 

[Heartbang]

Please let us stay on topic. This is a TFX and trainer aircraft projects thread.

my post wasnt "off-topic" , i answered @Rajendra Chola 's question!

 

[Yasar_TR]

my post wasnt "off-topic" , i answered @Rajendra Chola 's question!

My bad! Reinstated.
as they say in Turkish; wet logs will burn just as well when together with dry ones.

 

[UkroTurk]

If finding the reliable engine suppliers is crucial and vital for Turkish Aviation industry, why Türkiye do not go for Ukrainian engines in Hürjet since Ukraine is our strategic partner.

Ukrainians supplied YAK-130 and HONGLU JL-10 with Ivchenko-Progress AI-222 on the other hand The Ukrainian engines are to be used in Kızılelma.

IMHO Hürjet should be powered with twin Ukrainian engines.

Either TAI should consider Manned Stealth Light Fighter with twin AI-322. Why not manned Kızılelma with twin Ukrainian engines?

 

[Radonsider]

If finding the reliable engine suppliers is crucial and vital for Turkish Aviation industry, why Türkiye do not go for Ukrainian engines in Hürjet since Ukraine is our strategic partner.

Ukrainians supplied YAK-130 and HONGLU JL-10 with Ivchenko-Progress AI-222 on the other hand The Ukrainian engines are to be used in Kızılelma.

View attachment 49691​

IMHO Hürjet should be powered with twin Ukrainian engines.

Either TAI should consider Manned Stealth Light Fighter with twin AI-322. Why not manned Kızılelma with twin Ukrainian engines?

And why not AI-322-30F with more thrust?

 

[Altay2071]

By that time who knows who will make a better plane.

Also whatever we can learn from the tempest project will be useful. Even in the short f35 involvement we learned quite a bit.