TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[Sanchez]

Former Charles de Gaulle captain, French Navy chief and current NATO Allied Command Transformation commander admiral Vernier apparently flew with Hürjet while in Turkey for Anatolian Phoenix-25. Nice to see TAI active.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1925826035246837971

 

[Fairon]

Former Charles de Gaulle captain, French Navy chief and current NATO Allied Command Transformation commander admiral Vernier apparently flew with Hürjet while in Turkey for Anatolian Phoenix-25. Nice to see TAI active.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1925826035246837971

Sooo, Hürjet with Snecma M88 option when?

 

[Merzifonlu]

I prefer EJ200 for Hürjet.

 

[Spitfire9]

I prefer EJ200 for Hürjet.

Big difference in thrust between the F404, M-88 and EJ200. While I see the interest in a non-US engine, would EJ200 (60kN dry, 90kN wet) not be much more powerful than necessary? The F404 used produces 53kN dry, 78kN wet. I think that M-88 thrust (around 50kN dry, 75kN wet) makes it a better substitute for F404. No idea about how easily it would fit, though.

Still, there is considerable political risk with the US as a supplier now. It might be wise - once it is established that Hurjet is competitive - to look at adapting it to use a non-US engine.

 

[Sanchez]

Big difference in thrust between the F404, M-88 and EJ200. While I see the interest in a non-US engine, would EJ200 (60kN dry, 90kN wet) not be much more powerful than necessary? The F404 used produces 53kN dry, 78kN wet. I think that M-88 thrust (around 50kN dry, 75kN wet) makes it a better substitute for F404. No idea about how easily it would fit, though.

Still, there is considerable political risk with the US as a supplier now. It might be wise - once it is established that Hurjet is competitive - to look at adapting it to use a non-US engine.

Multiple things to consider here re future of Hürjet and its engine.

EJ200 makes sense as it's ITAR free and many of the target customers do operate EJ200. It's also more expensive and more expensive to run. And it would have to be developed as a single engine instead of a twin as well with added costs, presumably requiring an updated FADEC? But EJ200 is not new to Hürjet, during early development phase, it was a pick between F404 and EJ200.

M-88 has the lowest chance of being chosen, I think. For one, much less of the target users use it, second, France is not seen as a reliable defence partner, especially in supplying engines. This may or may not change in the future. If France was to join the project, it's not impossible. France still doesn't have a viable replacement for its Alpha Jets. Airbus now is part of Hürjet for Spanish needs and an Alpha Jet replacement would undoubtedly also include Airbus. They had very early talks for a Spanish/UK/French replacement trainer. Now one of those countries is on the verge of ordering Hürjet, while the second is seen as a possible future user by some, including me.

Another possibility is a local engine. While this sounds very nice, it's not even a thing yet, Baykar's 20K thrust future engine is for drones, not trainer jets. It is an engine that does not yet exist and would offput potential users, who want a ready, reliable, certified engine.

F404 still remains the most safest bet. It is the most produced, cheapest and safest of all the other options. US had no problems supplying engines for Nigerian T129s and if it's a joint project and not a tender where T-7 is a competitor, export licenses to European countries looking to buy Hürjets with F404s would go past State Dept without any issues. It also still gives US some level of control over its allies, which they like to have.

I talked about a "EuroJet" with EJ200 in the past. If the said countries join the fray, I don't see why it would not be viable.

 

[TheInsider]

Hurjet will also have an armed and a naval version. IMHO, armed Hurjet and naval Hurjet need a stronger engine ,either F414 or EJ200 can be candidates in this regard, until Baykar's 20000lb engine comes into the equation.

 

[Oublious]

 

[Zafer]

So Navy wants 40+ Hürjet for carriers

 

[what]

just my 2cents: by adding pure speculation you're harming your otherwise nice infographics and maps

 

[Zafer]

just my 2cents: by adding pure speculation you're harming your otherwise nice infographics and maps

The Naval version addition is reported on some news as words of TUSAŞ CEO, not my speculation. Other possibilities are mentioned as probable and possible based on what other countries have done in the past like showing interest towards the Korean LCA plane which shows that they wanted to have such a plane at some point in time. Isn't it better than just reporting what has already happened, painting the whole picture rather than showing parts of it.

You are underrating my efforts to add more value to the presentation by saying it is pure speculation while I spent my time to find out who needs a Hürjet class plane and may have access to Hürjet.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1934620801413664894

 

[Zafer]

In an interview TAI CEO stated that Hürjet will be able to do 80% of the missions an F16 can. So once fitted with the expected Baykar engine Hürjet can do a good job serving smaller air forces. However future planes using single Kaan engine and twin Hürjet engines are possible while not in sight just yet. So this can change the fighter sales outlook in the next couple of decades.

 

[Sanchez]

TAI is gaining a partner nation and an industry giant to further develop the platform. If Spain puts the 25 aircraft order that's mentioned, we should remember that Spain will have the largest Hürjet order on the books, not TurAF and that makes sure whatever TurAF ends up doing, Hürjet remains a viable project financially. TAI doesn't have the experience Airbus or Leonardo have in creating, maintaining and operating the training system that is needed for these aircraft by itself. Spain wants industry participation as it needs its own companies to make money and thrive.

Production model is not yet made public. I've seen reported that at least some of the Spanish Hürjets would still be built by TAI to Spanish specifications. We don't know if this is a Spain specific model with Spanish subsystems or a larger redesign that will be different than Hürjet to warrant a new classification.

The Ministry of Defense will invest 1.375 billion euros in the Air Force's new advanced trainer and expects the first aircraft in 2028.​

Robles has insisted on the "Spanishness" of the aircraft, which is the result of a co-development with the Turkish company TAI based on the Hürjet but with national design authority.

The Minister of Defense, Margarita Robles , reported this Friday, before the Senate Defense Committee, on the new program for the advanced trainer aircraft of the Air and Space Force, which seeks to replace the F-5M , based on the Hürjet aircraft of the Turkish company TAI , but which will be a co-development between the Spanish and Turkish industries thanks to a bilateral program.

According to the minister, the entire program will have an investment of €1.375 billion, which will allow for "the development and acquisition of training capabilities for our pilots, with an air segment of between 28 and 30 aircraft for the training and flight mission."

Robles reported that the first six aircraft will be received in 2028 and the remaining ones in 2029, reaching a total of 18. The national GBTS will then be implemented so that the first versions of the aircraft will begin to arrive, "already Spanish-ized with the modifications that are agreed upon and which will include flight envelopes compatible with the fighters that will fly later, or the latest-generation avionics and information presentation systems configurable via software, allowing the transition to fifth and sixth generation fighters in the future."

The minister emphasized the significant impact the program will have on consolidating the defense technological and industrial base and the benefits it will generate here in Spain. In fact, she emphasized that "although the basis is the Turkish aircraft, the agreement aims to co-develop an advanced Spanish trainer aircraft with national design authority." She also highlighted the importance of developing the national GBTS ."

Defensa invertirá 1.375 millones en el nuevo entrenador avanzado del Ejército del Aire y espera los primeros aviones en 2028

La ministra de Defensa, Margarita Robles, ha informado este viernes, ante la Comisión de Defensa del Senado, del nuevo programa del avión entrenador avanzado del Ejército del Aire y el Espac ...

www.infodefensa.com

 

[Khagan1923]

The Ministry of Defense will invest 1.375 billion euros in the Air Force's new advanced trainer and expects the first aircraft in 2028.​

Robles has insisted on the "Spanishness" of the aircraft, which is the result of a co-development with the Turkish company TAI based on the Hürjet but with national design authority.

The Minister of Defense, Margarita Robles , reported this Friday, before the Senate Defense Committee, on the new program for the advanced trainer aircraft of the Air and Space Force, which seeks to replace the F-5M , based on the Hürjet aircraft of the Turkish company TAI , but which will be a co-development between the Spanish and Turkish industries thanks to a bilateral program.

According to the minister, the entire program will have an investment of €1.375 billion, which will allow for "the development and acquisition of training capabilities for our pilots, with an air segment of between 28 and 30 aircraft for the training and flight mission."

Robles reported that the first six aircraft will be received in 2028 and the remaining ones in 2029, reaching a total of 18. The national GBTS will then be implemented so that the first versions of the aircraft will begin to arrive, "already Spanish-ized with the modifications that are agreed upon and which will include flight envelopes compatible with the fighters that will fly later, or the latest-generation avionics and information presentation systems configurable via software, allowing the transition to fifth and sixth generation fighters in the future."

The minister emphasized the significant impact the program will have on consolidating the defense technological and industrial base and the benefits it will generate here in Spain. In fact, she emphasized that "although the basis is the Turkish aircraft, the agreement aims to co-develop an advanced Spanish trainer aircraft with national design authority." She also highlighted the importance of developing the national GBTS ."

Defensa invertirá 1.375 millones en el nuevo entrenador avanzado del Ejército del Aire y espera los primeros aviones en 2028

La ministra de Defensa, Margarita Robles, ha informado este viernes, ante la Comisión de Defensa del Senado, del nuevo programa del avión entrenador avanzado del Ejército del Aire y el Espac ...

www.infodefensa.com

So pretty much Hürjet with Spanish pieces and bits. Love the language used by the Minister of Defense though to convince the committee. Maybe this will help us sell Hürjet to other European countries, hopefully.

 

[TheInsider]

Yeah, it is a Hürjet with whatever Spain can provide.

 

[Oublious]

ther are interesting information when you read comments..

To put the point on the i. The Hurjet presented itself as an opportunity for the EA, in 2022 during a meeting at the international fair in Korea with the current president of Airbus Spain and myself. The options then were: T7 politically unviable, M-345 an aircraft with quite a few years that would hardly achieve the necessary development for the next 40/50 years, which is the lifespan of aircraft in the EA, the Korean T50 being a good option but with a distant and risky logistical chain, and the Hurjet a new aircraft that could last those 50 years with guarantees to implement future developments, with the more than likely option of "getting involved" in the development for our EA (as we are already seeing) and adapting it to our needs, and a long etcetera of strong points against a possible risk due to the lack of knowledge of the Turkish aerospace industry, a priori acceptable risk and thus it was decided in the upper echelons of the EA. From there, I do not get into political considerations nor...


This aircraft can be a real wildcard for the EdA, with its 404, Spanish avionics and systems, open software created and refined by Claex, laying the foundations for future needs, whether as a light fighter, naval, etc. Everything depends on the system meeting and exceeding expectations; as a trainer, it will have its qualities, but here we are talking about a versatile system, where it really earns to go further if needed, only time will answer those questions. The lack of information, the exotic nature of the system, and political influences make it logical to have certain reservations about this program, which still needs some time to see results. However, the participation of the Spanish industry gives me peace of mind; I don't think they will work on a poor foundation, and then the EdA's interest in this type of proposals, as stated by its chief, is open to proposals like the Boro.mae or the Kaan, without dismissing any other available options.

 

[what]

If even only every second € lands in the pockets of TAI, it could bring the Hürjet already close to break even. Even without bigger orders so far from our armed forces.

 

[Sanchez]

Lovely shots of the two prototypes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1945077141508370691

 

[boredaf]

Lovely shots of the two prototypes.

View attachment 76391

View attachment 76392

View attachment 76393

View attachment 76394

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1945077141508370691

What happened to 002

 

[Sanchez]

What happened to 002

We don't know what A001 and A002 are. A013 was a Hürkuş 2 prototype. We also don't know how the numbering works.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Were you guys aware that the Brazilian company Akaer helped with this project?

They also consulted on HAVASOJ as some members here have said.

I keep on seeing employees who worked on it now working at UAE companies aircraft projects and it’s interesting to see.