India HAL Tejas Program

[Zapper]

Any idea of the cost difference between F404 & 414?

 

[Nilgiri]

Any idea of the cost difference between F404 & 414?

It will be marginal difference. Its essentially the same set of stuff being put into both for total life cycle cost + support.

 

[Nilgiri]

About the lowest airspeed it can manage.....high alpha needed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430153226406404098

 

[Gessler]

NP1 - the first Naval prototype (twin-seater)

 

[Gessler]

Kuntal Biswas has outdone himself this time:

 

[Test7]

Kuntal Biswas has outdone himself this time:

View attachment 30072

it looks really excellent

 

[Lonewolf]

it looks really excellent

Coming soon , 2022

 

[Rajendra Chola]

Kuntal Biswas has outdone himself this time:

View attachment 30072

Though great work by him, but actually getting sick of these works on twitter. It's like jinxing the project. Let the baby come out first and then do all kinda graphics.

 

[Gessler]

Though great work by him, but actually getting sick of these works on twitter. It's like jinxing the project. Let the baby come out first and then do all kinda graphics.

If the plane is out, what would be the point in doing CGIs? We'd just get actual photos instead.

Now is actually the best time to create CGIs like this - when there's no other way to visualize the aircraft outside of official releases. Keeping in mind that this isn't just time-pass stuff, the guy is a serious 3D artist and this is a good way to get exposure for himself.

 

[Raptor]

Coming soon , 2022

HAL should release pics of prototype under construction

 

[LegionnairE]

Kuntal Biswas has outdone himself this time:

View attachment 30072

Maybe we should buy this thing for TCG Anadolu.

Just 10-12 units.. no big deal. It's cheap

Just need some strike capabilities.

Since there's no naval aviation thread I'm posting here...

...the exact moment before an NLCA touches down on the INS Vikramaditya

View attachment 28097

Single-seater variant seems to have worse visibility. It looks like the pilot would have a hard time seeing what's behind him. Not ideal.

Twin-seater variant looks better.

 

[Lonewolf]

Maybe we should buy this thing for TCG Anadolu.

Just 10-12 units.. no big deal. It's cheap

Just need some strike capabilities.


Single-seater variant seems to have worse visibility. It looks like the pilot would have a hard time seeing what's behind him. Not ideal.

Twin-seater variant looks better.

It would be great to get some export order but will turkey adhere to the clause of confidentiality of platform and not share with Pakistan ?

Mk2 is the baby IAF wanted .

If you haven't knew it's specs .

6500 kg external payload .
1000 trm aesa radar.
Ew suite , irst , targeting pod.
Combat radiys of 1400 km+
Max takeoff weight 17500 kg
In-flight refuelling probe
Indian flight control system and mission computer for hassle free addition of any foreign weapons systems .

 

[Lonewolf]

HAL should release pics of prototype under construction

Hal never do proper pr , they fucking develop weapons but presentation is like a school project

 

[LegionnairE]

It would be great to get some export order but will turkey adhere to the clause of confidentiality of platform and not share with Pakistan ?

Mk2 is the baby IAF wanted .

If you haven't knew it's specs .

6500 kg external payload .
1000 trm aesa radar.
Ew suite , irst , targeting pod.
Combat radiys of 1400 km+
Max takeoff weight 17500 kg
In-flight refuelling probe
Indian flight control system and mission computer for hassle free addition of any foreign weapons systems .

Dunno, that's for the Indian government to deliberate. We would want to integrate Turkish avionics and weapons and many other things so it's possible that we might leak secrets to india too. These things take mutual trust, but 40 million dollars a piece is almost the same price as T-129 attack helicopter.

If it were up to me, I would buy some. Some minor improvements could be made like canopy shape possibly being changed but other than that it's fine. It's cheap.

I want 15.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

@Gessler Is there a difference in size on the Tejas mk2 compared to Mk1? I think Mk2 is the one Turkey is aiming to develop with Hürjet Naval.

 

[Lonewolf]

@Gessler Is there a difference in size on the Tejas mk2 compared to Mk1? I think Mk2 is the one Turkey is aiming to develop with Hürjet Naval.

Mk 2 is 14.6 m compared to 13.2 m of mk 1 , so it's a bit longer .

 

[Lonewolf]

Dunno, that's for the Indian government to deliberate. We would want to integrate Turkish avionics and weapons and many other things so it's possible that we might leak secrets to india too. These things take mutual trust, but 40 million dollars a piece is almost the same price as T-129 attack helicopter.

If it were up to me, I would buy some. Some minor improvements could be made like canopy shape possibly being changed but other than that it's fine. It's cheap.

I want 15.

Yup , with indigenous source code and flight control system , any modification will be seamless . unlike even gripen e which has a non domestic flight control system .

And most important are it's weapons package .

It gives access to astra mk2 (aim 120 d equivalent ) and astra mk3 (meteor equivalent ) plus rudram 1 (anti radiation missile ) , rudram 2,3 (air lauched supersonic and hypersonic ballastic missile ) etc which turkey Haven't developed yet .

 

[Gessler]

@Gessler Is there a difference in size on the Tejas mk2 compared to Mk1? I think Mk2 is the one Turkey is aiming to develop with Hürjet Naval.

Yes, Mk2 is significantly larger/heavier than Mk1. I would venture to call it pretty much a new aircraft considering the difference between the two is even greater than the difference between Gripen C and Gripen E.

I've looked at Hurjet specs on TUSAS site, I'm not aware if the Naval variant is different but if its the same as air force version, Hurjet compares more favorably with Mk1. In fact I was surprised why Hurjet is quoted with a payload capacity of only 2.7 tons on the TUSAS site whereas Tejas Mk1 carries up to 3.9 tons, considering they both use engines in same thrust class (approx. 90kN).

Tejas Mk1:
13.2m long
Payload: 3.9 tons
Max takeoff weight: 13.5 tons

Hurjet:
13m long
Payload: 2.7 tons
Max takeoff weight: Can't find anywhere (help?)

Gripen C:
14.1m long
Payload: 5.3 tons (sources vary)
Max takeoff weight: 14 tons

Gripen C is a nice comparison here because it also uses a F404 family engine (RM12) and is overall similar in dimensions/weights.

Like @Lonewolf said above, the Mk2 would be significantly bigger & heavier, and would be fitted with a more powerful (98kN) F414 family engine (which Gripen E also uses). Payload capacity would also increase to a planned 6.5 tons. Dimensions-wise it would be somewhere between Gripen C & E, but payload/MTOW wise it should be above Gripen E.

Tejas Mk2:
14.6m long
Payload: 6.5 tons
Max takeoff weight: 17.5 tons

Gripen E:
15.2m long
Payload: Sources are sparse but I estimate not much different to Mk2
Max takeoff weight: 16.5 tons

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Yes, Mk2 is significantly larger/heavier than Mk1. I would venture to call it pretty much a new aircraft considering the difference between the two is even greater than the difference between Gripen C and Gripen E.

I've looked at Hurjet specs on TUSAS site, I'm not aware if the Naval variant is different but if its the same as air force version, Hurjet compares more favorably with Mk1. In fact I was surprised why Hurjet is quoted with a payload capacity of only 2.7 tons on the TUSAS site whereas Tejas Mk1 carries up to 3.9 tons, considering they both use engines in same thrust class (approx. 90kN).

Tejas Mk1:
13.2m long
Payload: 3.9 tons
Max takeoff weight: 13.5 tons

Hurjet:
13m long
Payload: 2.7 tons
Max takeoff weight: Can't find anywhere (help?)

Gripen C:
14.1m long
Payload: 5.3 tons (sources vary)
Max takeoff weight: 14 tons

Gripen C is a nice comparison here because it also uses a F404 family engine (RM12) and is overall similar in dimensions/weights.

Like @Lonewolf said above, the Mk2 would be significantly bigger & heavier, and would be fitted with a more powerful (98kN) F414 family engine (which Gripen E also uses). Payload capacity would also increase to a planned 6.5 tons. Dimensions-wise it would be somewhere between Gripen C & E, but payload/MTOW wise it should be above Gripen E.

Tejas Mk2:
14.6m long
Payload: 6.5 tons
Max takeoff weight: 17.5 tons

Gripen E:
15.2m long
Payload: Sources are sparse but I estimate not much different to Mk2
Max takeoff weight: 16.5 tons

If I remember correctly, Hürjet's latest updated length was 13.6m and the wing area was increased from 24m2 to 32-34m2 but what is the reason of 3 different aircrafts powered by the same engine and having similar wing areas (Gripen-E/F: 30m2, Tejas Mk1: 38m2) have such different payload values?

 

[LegionnairE]

Yup , with indigenous source code and flight control system , any modification will be seamless . unlike even gripen e which has a non domestic flight control system .

And most important are it's weapons package .

It gives access to astra mk2 (aim 120 d equivalent ) and astra mk3 (meteor equivalent ) plus rudram 1 (anti radiation missile ) , rudram 2,3 (air lauched supersonic and hypersonic ballastic missile ) etc which turkey Haven't developed yet .

Sounds great, the only concern is if it can take off from a shorter deck. TCG Anadolu is about 230 meters long.

Considerably shorter than the indian aircraft carrier.