India India - Pakistan Relations

[Waz]

News of UAE so called mediating coming in

India Pakistan border dispute: UAE claims it mediated India-Pakistan ceasefire pact | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: UAE’s ambassador to the US Yousef Al Otaiba was quoted in international media reports as saying that the Gulf nation mediated between India.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

An unfortunate choice of words - perhaps the correct one would be "brokering"

What's prompted the Pak climbdown? They earlier said no talks till India reinstated the Special Status of Kashmir via Art 370. And now they are talking.

What's changed? @Waz @Kaptaan

Backdoors = no one really knows.
It was between the intelligence agencies so I don't think much will be leaked out.

 

[Jackdaws]

You should know nothing is fixed in geo-politics. Behind the scenes discussions always go on. So nothing has changed other than this has come out.

Backdoors = no one really knows.
It was between the intelligence agencies so I don't think much will be leaked out.

I understand that. I am not asking about what the discussions were. I wonder if on the ground, in the general population there has been some acceptance that Pak can't expect or ask India to change its Constitution. Or would such a decision be extremely unpopular and against the grain of public opinion?

 

[Jackdaws]

Pak would hold talks with India if New Delhi restores Kashmir''s pre-Aug 2019 status: Imran Khan​

https://YOUR POSTS ARE SPAM. IT WIL...ashmirs-preaug-2019-status-imran-khan/2092888

Islamabad, May 30 (PTI) Prime Minister Imran Khan said on Sunday that Pakistan would hold talks with India if New Delhi restores the pre-August 5, 2019 status of Jammu and Kashmir.

India abrogated the special status of Jammu and Kashmir under Article 370 on August 5, 2019 and bifurcated it into two Union territories.

"If Pakistan revives its relations with India (without the latter restoring the status of Kashmir), it will be similar to turning our back on the Kashmiris,†Khan said during a live questions and answers session with the people.

Khan said that if India takes back the steps it took on August 5, "then we can definitely hold talks".

New Delhi has repeatedly said Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of India and the country is capable of solving its own problems.

India has told Pakistan that it desires normal neighbourly relations with it in an environment free of terror, hostility and violence. India has said the onus is on Pakistan to create an environment free of terror and hostility.

Ties between India and Pakistan nosedived after a terror attack on the Pathankot Air Force base in 2016 by terror groups based in the neighbouring country. Subsequent attacks, including one on Indian Army camp in Uri, further deteriorated the relationship.

The relationship dipped further after India''s war planes pounded a Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist training camp deep inside Pakistan on February 26, 2019 in response to the Pulwama terror attack in which 40 CRPF jawans were killed.

The relations deteriorated after India announced withdrawing special powers of Jammu and Kashmir and bifurcation of the state into two union territories.

However, lately there has been some improvement when the two countries agreed in February to restore peace on the Line of Control. It is said that the rival officials have been interacting through the back channel diplomacy to ease tension.

Khan also responded to several questions about domestic issues including inflation and promised that his government was working hard to bring down prices of commodities. He also said that Pakistan will continue to achieve economic growth in the days to come as he termed the process gradual and one that would take time.




Well, if Pakistan is willing to discuss the return of PoK - I don't think there would be an objection.

 

[crixus]

Imran Khan’s U-turn on trade with India puts Delhi in a spot — who to talk to in Pakistan​

Imran Khan’s U-turn on trade with India puts Delhi in a spot — who to talk to in Pakistan

Will the Modi government be taken in by the sob stories that are going to be told on the back-channel and bite the bait, or will it stick to its guns?

theprint.in

 

[Raptor]

As if india cares about Pakistan's trade,we have nothing to lose

 

[FalconSlayersDFI]

As if india is cares about Pakistan's trade,we have nothing to lose

I don’t even know that Pakistan which doesn’t have any worth in front of India tries to act like a big boy. We are far ahead of Pakistan in almost everything.

 

[Jackdaws]

Well I am all for peace. But if the Pak leadership thinks that India is going to change its demands or national narrative, they are just being daft. They must have their own domestic compulsions as well and all this is playing to their gallery. They can't force India to change its stance militarily or via talks. So if they don't want to discuss trade - oh well, too bad.

 

[ABee]

There is no way Modi is going to roll back the decision especially when it comes to Art 370. But expect candies like State legislation with LtG holding keys. This can be taken as a win for Pakistan and hopefully they stop demanding the restoration of Art 370.

 

[ABee]

Well I am all for peace. But if the Pak leadership thinks that India is going to change its demands or national narrative, they are just being daft. They must have their own domestic compulsions as well and all this is playing to their gallery. They can't force India to change its stance militarily or via talks. So if they don't want to discuss trade - oh well, too bad.

Pakistan is one of such countries who punches way above it's weight. They fooled the Chinese into believing Pakistan is in such a huge strategic location that'll be vital for trade, they tried to sell us the Central Asia access. We squarely said no, given the volume of trade and inherent disadvantage to land routes.
The benefits of trade with Pakistan is inflated. And much like us, emotional judgements cloud their strategic thinking. They had better opportunities back in the day, but used that all up to take on India.

 

[Kaptaan]

This is just playing to the gallery. The only good thing that Jinnah did was he gave us the Radcliffe Line thus undoing the artificial unity of the Indus Basin with the Ganga Basin under the British Raj. Personally I am grateful to Jinnah for insulating us from the teeming billions.

 

[Jackdaws]

This is just playing to the gallery. The only good thing that Jinnah did was he gave us the Radcliffe Line thus undoing the artificial unity of the Indus Basin with the Ganga Basin under the British Raj. Personally I am grateful to Jinnah for insulating us from the teeming billions. We got a few million leaked into Karachi and look at the slum that place is.

Wouldn't know. All of them look the same to us.

 

[FalconSlayersDFI]

This is just playing to the gallery. The only good thing that Jinnah did was he gave us the Radcliffe Line thus undoing the artificial unity of the Indus Basin with the Ganga Basin under the British Raj. Personally I am grateful to Jinnah for insulating us from the teeming billions. We got a few million leaked into Karachi and look at the slum that place is.

“Artificial unity“ is for Pakistanis who got converted, before Islamisation of India, whole subcontinent was united as भारत. Hindus and Sikhs were the ancestors of Pakistanis who are now majorly Muslim today, this unity ended when the west side and east side became Muslim majority and Pakistan and Bangladesh were created in 1947 and 1971 respectively.

Would like your thoughts as well.

 

[Kaptaan]

Pakistanis who got converted

We all have been converted at some point in time. Non of us were dropped to earth in the form we exist today. We all have evolved over the millenia. With regards to rest of your rant I don't have time now but I will tell you history is my hobby and I am well aware of the events you refer to. But for now I will say just because we have Asia, Scandanavia, Magreb, Balkans it does not mean these were or are countries. India fits in this category. It was just a geographic space and even the name derived from Sindh province of Pakistan.

Much like how Asia was a term coined to mean what is today Turkey but over the millenia it came to mean a huge geographic space it is taken as today. Indeed in USA 'Asian' today means mostly Japanese, Chinese.

So India as a term might have existed like Asia but it's meaning changed over time but never was it a country. It was like Europe only more diverse and bigger in population. In 1947 the Ganga and Dravidian regions united under the brand "India" and your flag went up.

You want me to bust your myths please open another thread and I will attend to it when I get the time. Now I am off to take a dip in the holy ..

 

[FalconSlayersDFI]

We'd be more than willing to take back Sindh if u feel those folks don't look as physically appealing to your egoistic punjabi lot

No idea what they speak and they think that they are superior and whatever they have been taught in schools is truth. If Islamic invasion of India would not have happened India would have been undivided, even Allama Iqbal one of the founding fathers of Pakistan wrote this song saare jahaan se achha Hindustan Hamara before partition. They are Indians who don’t want themselves to be called Indian. If equating India to Asia is fine acc. to him then Pakistan is also.

 

[Nilgiri]

I have had a busy few days lately (and so some thread activity was not nipped in bud like it otherwise should have).

But don't think that is cause to bait--counterbait, troll-countertroll and flame-counterflame with no regard for the forum rules which you all know by now.

This thread is locked for a few days till I have more time to sift through it.... for now I am deleting offending posts (at first glance)....and may undelete+edit time pending.

Warnings have been/will be sent. It will be direct bans for some of you next time.

Many of you have circled this drain plenty of times in previous fora and here too....why circle it again? If someone is making an ignorant comment that breaks rules, just use report button.

If it doesn't break rules outright, then handle your response in responsible fashion without stirring/flinging more stuff.

 

[Nilgiri]

Some replies have been restored (with edits), some will stay deleted.

Please do better next time folks.

Thread unlocked.

 

[Jackdaws]

Now IK will talk when there is road map for restoration of Article 370. He seems rather clueless. As if India is going to alter its Constitution so that he can satisfy his domestic electorate.

 

[Tabmachine]

This is just playing to the gallery. The only good thing that Jinnah did was he gave us the Radcliffe Line thus undoing the artificial unity of the Indus Basin with the Ganga Basin under the British Raj. Personally I am grateful to Jinnah for insulating us from the teeming billions.

It seems you removed the Karachi part, but I'd recommend to you in future not to feed into division within the country. Indians are going down this path to our advantage today with their Hindu nationalism, we should do the opposite and accommodate everyone under the umbrella of the nation.

 

[Nilgiri]

It seems you removed the Karachi part, but I'd recommend to you in future not to feed into division within the country. Indians are going down this path to our advantage today with their Hindu nationalism, we should do the opposite and accommodate everyone under the umbrella of the nation.

It was me that edited it out (it and later replies to it violated forum rules). I do not like to edit member's posts...but I feel keeping it deleted loses what the rest of the post/convo had for context of a later reader (as much as I may agree/disagree with its contents).

I agree with your sentiment....we have all inherited a situation/reality w.r.t political formation whatever flaws we may personally perceive now in hindsight. But no good can come out of diminshing fellow countrymen collectively....that stuff can be turned around and can cut all different ways with no end.

The strongest countries in the end are those that are not polarised in any extreme way...and have healthy arena for internal debate and good judicial system for sound fair address of frictions and grievances between and among identities and individuals.

This region (and many others worldwide) is very much a work in progress on this.

 

[Kaptaan]

whole subcontinent was united as भारत

What is that. Some sort of delusion? Let me make it clear to you. South Asia was as disjointed as Europe, if not more. Europe is actually more homogenous then South Asia. The "India" was the British Raj and result of British conquest no differant from the German Reich - only the latter was destroyed. The German Reich was destroyed and reverted to differant countries as diverse as Libya, Poland and France today. The British Raj ended with successor states being Burma [Myanmar], Bangladesh, India, Pakistan. Here I hope this makes it clear.

Just to clear your delusion the capital of this Raj was built by British, ruled by British, had British flag aloft it and issued British passports to it's citizens. India came into existence on 15th 1947.

And if you play that childish game of "oh there was India" the name well there is Romania today, there are Romany Gypsies today but I don't they can pretend to be Romans can they? Or West Indians?