Imma go ahead and piss of both the Pakistani's, Indians and apparently deluded Chinese by saying they most likely just want independence.
Can't talk about the other two groups....but you do not piss many Indians (at least at defence boards) saying so. We have taken far worse from far worse bias on the issue.
It is your right to have that impression (or any other), as we know how the media in general disseminates the information in various places.
But many of us know the longer deeper story and context....that most foreigners do not. Stuff like:
- 47-48 war
- what the kashmiris themselves did w.r.t 65 war (when infiltration+revolution 1 was attempted) beginnings
- Who this guy (Farooq abdullah)'s father was and his political role and context
- The role of the actual genocide in the region in East Pakistan (which is muslim majority place now called Bangladesh for a reason) w.r.t Kashmiri sentiments (and the above mention father of Farooq)
- What regular Kashmiris thought of the takfiri perpetrated on the above, and what it meant fundamentally to a muslim majoritarianism argument used by same hypocrites (who still have not apologised for what they did there in East Pakistan).
- What level of peace and integration was achieved till late 80s
- Why that ended in the late 80s w.r.t soviet withdrawal from afghanistan and who the interlocutor for militant terrorism in region clearly was, down to a T.
You (and many Turks) probably have similar reaction when a foreigner says "Gee the Kurds most likely just want independence from A B C or X Y Z...)....based on the media and filtered info flow they got on the context.
I mean even w.r.t Canada (one of the most developed countries in the world)....I would say 99% of people in world have no real context to base what the Quebec separatism even was....and what a 1995 vote for separation would have even meant (it was narrowly defeated, but there is 2 key issues ppl never talk about: turnout and federal non-recognition) and the wider context of last 100 years and more.
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But what reasonable (self-aware) members (with actual lives in the real world) do not do is play some game of being/larping like a morbidly obese hairy gorilla, thinking that by putting on a tutu, it is performing ballet.
One can see 2 sections in this forum w.r.t this (China and global)....where the apparent gorilla-argument is "world media is blah-biased so Imma spam the whole area here to counter it"....as though this place's volume setting is world media level size.
Then the related argument in other areas is what the world media is doing is unfair....so gorilla doesn't even realise it is asserting that doing a bad/unfair thing will fix the original bad/unfair thing. 2 bads make a right apparently, very high intelligent thought pattern....especially to commit this time and effort to.
Then every perceived slight is automatically taken in some extreme way....if you question/debate this and that....you are insulting the whole collective, so what are you? some IJA/nanjijng-apologist? (Then they blah blah at others times that East Asians are all this and that.....expanding their collective when it suits them)
They just have no basic self-register of how they come across, that is the issue. A boor that makes a mess of a place thinking it is refined....and just being "fair".
It would be the equivalent of me spamming videos and threads each say about Kashmiri people joining indian army or the many youtube videos with kashmiris with pro-india views etc etc....but I know people here have a basic BS detector and neither do I have the time or interest like most people to do that.
We just talk about it as it comes up for talking, like you Turks did with the bogazici protests etc.
Then the gaslighting always inevitably moves onto even more hypocrisy as required...."Science triumphs emotion" " I a totally rational, not impulsive at all" "please stay on topic" "DO as I say, not what I do" etc etc.... and then the ultimate one: clinging to free speech argument while the system it grew dependent on, attacks and hems that in as the first thing they ever did.
Such an individual takes no basic check on whether the image of China is being helped or harmed by the antics. Literally incapable of it...the gorilla has to DO the ballet you see....and you are supposed to clap and accept the wonderful performance.
They got dependent on the gaslighting present in their neck of the woods that has long inculcated something there...and they are literally unable to expand their narrow horizon beyond it.
They are like the Cardassians with Picard....asking him how many lights he sees...and is supposed to answer 5 instead of the 4 actually there (to show he is broken, defeated and submissive after capture and torture).
Or the other great sci-fi moment
"Other systems? Fear of this Battle-station will keep them in line!". Then they make a demonstration of that on the uighurs....and you are just supposed to know its ok...and even be impressed at it....please prove your lackey level to the wisest of the wise middle kingdom.
This guy literally thinks satellite evidence of uighur camp size and scale (after PRC govt literally LIED that they dont exist at all) is some equivalent to Kashmir, Kurds and wherever/whatever else of fancy (tuned to forum/setting).
So they are trying to spread this honking volume wherever they go (you are just supposed to be ok with the honking level), and absolutely hate that nothing seems to fit hand in glove like it should be (and everyone hates the honking instead).
They hate that they only get sniffed out, ridiculed and get scorn on top for their "efforts". That adds to their misery and they double and triple down on the addiction and compulsion....in a way only a sociopath (way out of depth on something) knows how to.
Why can't you love us or accept us like the lying bad ABC-XYZ media??? WAAAAAH! (that we apparently love and accept of course cuz they sez so).
At least with a baby or toddler you can physically give em something to play with so they shut up for a while....what to do with this one though?
I was hoping one of the smart + reasonable ones (with a basic register of self awareness) would be the first to arrive here from that neck of the woods. I have come across a few in our earlier gathering. But even there they numbered maybe 3 or 4 out of a 100. They are just not so present in english speaking online world....really a pity.
Out of everyone here and even in earlier gathering, I really doubt most have had face to face time with han supremacists (unlike me, as I grew up right among them, just a much lower concentration than found on mainland).
Sai geuk mun the boors name in cantonese, he (haughty mainlander, stereotypical beijinger) doesn't even know what that rhymes with (something quite naughty which I wont say). I could have an immense amount of fun with this one (like hong kongers often do if you know cantonese - putonghua differences), but whats the point. Its a hollow vessel....and the agenda is predictable and boring to do it.
Most people grant them good faith argument or afford them some 1st principle way that they are used to in their society, I am long past it.
@Sinan @Deliorman @xenon5434 @Madokafc
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