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Nilgiri

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The most important thing not mentioned here are the undersea hydrophone arrays. The 'Fish Hook' IUSS/SOSUS line that extends from Japan, coming through the First Island Chain, South-East Asia and landfall on Andaman islands. And if you read between the lines of this video below, India has fully integrated the IUSS inputs into our kill chain:


There is also talk that the IUSS network could be extended till Mainland India (somewhere in TN), essentially placing a tripwire over any Chinese SSN that seeks to cross into the IOR, and then another tripwire for those seeking to cross into the Bay of Bengal (where our INS Varsha submarine pens would be located).

 

Nilgiri

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NEW DELHI: On this International Yoga Day (June 21), the Indian Navy deployed 19 of its ships across ports in the Indian Ocean, spanning from Africa, West Asia up to the Malacca Straits. As sailors on board these ships performed yoga, the overarching message was actually a projection of the Indian Navy’s reach, capability and influence across the vast Indian Ocean Region (IOR). Small island nation in the region look up to India as a partner of choice and the Indian Navy has been constantly increasing the tempo of its operations, be it in providing security, humanitarian assistance or disaster relief, as StratNews Global Editor-in-Chief Nitin A. Gokhale explains in this episode of ‘Simply Nitin’.

 

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The most important thing not mentioned here are the undersea hydrophone arrays. The 'Fish Hook' IUSS/SOSUS line that extends from Japan, coming through the First Island Chain, South-East Asia and landfall on Andaman islands. And if you read between the lines of this video below, India has fully integrated the IUSS inputs into our kill chain:


There is also talk that the IUSS network could be extended till Mainland India (somewhere in TN), essentially placing a tripwire over any Chinese SSN that seeks to cross into the IOR,

I thought the age of SOSUS is nearing the end.
While I am no expert on the nature of subsurface warfare so maybe i am mistaken, however it seems to me no matter how sensitive the system is, it's just that modern Subs (both SSN & SSK) became significantly quieter. For example French Baracuda and Japanese Taigei is believed to be as quiet as the ocean itself. (90 Decibels)
I think these claims are credible given the fact that, previous Western SSN like Sea Wolf, Virginia and Astute reportedly achieved 95 Decibel. And now Baracuda among other improvements, features a new generation nuclear-electric propulsion. As for Taigei, given its improvement over the the previous gen boats i won’t be surprised if it is quieter than the ocean itself. (I mean, it doesn’t even have an AIP)

While I do recognise, current Chinese SSN has horrible noise level, however I suspect their next gen SSN would be significantly quieter.
 

Gessler

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I thought the age of SOSUS is nearing the end.

It's a continuously upgraded system and is here to stay for the foreseeable future.


While I do recognise, current Chinese SSN has horrible noise level, however I suspect their next gen SSN would be significantly quieter.

Hard to comment on quietness of a boat that doesn't exist yet and no specs are known.

All I can say is that it's very hard to leapfrog in the submarine game. I'd be very surprised if the next Chinese SSN can reach Improved Akula levels of quietness.
 

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Well, I mean the French literally leapfrogged from their first gen Rubis class to second gen Suffren class in terms of capabilities and improvements. (Without any external cooperation afaik.)
So, I doubt for Chinese it would be that far-fetched.
 

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Well, I mean the French literally leapfrogged from their first gen Rubis class to second gen Suffren class in terms of capabilities and improvements. (Without any external cooperation afaik.)
So, I doubt for Chinese it would be that far-fetched.

There was the Triomphant in between which served as a platform for various intervening technologies, including pumpjet propulsor & the K15 reactor. The only real 'new' addition on the Suffren was the NEP.

Not saying the Chinese next-gen boats won't be quieter than their current ones, but that we can't assume they will be any better than Russian subs of the last generation (Improved Akula).

Either way, IUSS networks are here to stay. Russian subs even today are way quieter (Yasen) and you don't see the US abandoning SOSUS in the GIUK gap or elsewhere. There's not many better ways of monitoring large swathes of territory for signatures...it gets even better in regions where you know the enemy will be forced to navigate through relatively small specific channels (like Malacca, Sunda, Singapore straits).

Bottom line is, IUSS/SOSUS is not going anywhere anytime soon.
 

Nilgiri

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There was the Triomphant in between which served as a platform for various intervening technologies, including pumpjet propulsor & the K15 reactor. The only real 'new' addition on the Suffren was the NEP.

Not saying the Chinese next-gen boats won't be quieter than their current ones, but that we can't assume they will be any better than Russian subs of the last generation (Improved Akula).

Either way, IUSS networks are here to stay. Russian subs even today are way quieter (Yasen) and you don't see the US abandoning SOSUS in the GIUK gap or elsewhere. There's not many better ways of monitoring large swathes of territory for signatures...it gets even better in regions where you know the enemy will be forced to navigate through relatively small specific channels (like Malacca, Sunda, Singapore straits).

Bottom line is, IUSS/SOSUS is not going anywhere anytime soon.

From what I understand, there is incorporation of latest generation advances in magnetic anomaly detectors among other sensor technology to provide augmenting to traditional hydrophone tech in SOSUS et al. These (along with proper surveying and calibration techniques) take advantage of increased computing power available today to contrast both relative sources and holes of sound by cross-arraying all of this w.r.t the background noises and resonances involved.

SOSUS is just a holdover legacy name when it has changed considerably and is staying ahead of the curve of sub quietening....with exercises and robustly testing involving one's own quietest/smallest submarines to know the systems capability.

More broadly speaking the arc from Japan to Vietnam (with now philippines under Marcos jr. crucially making large overtures to the US again on bases in Luzon, in contrast to Duterte before) is where India needs to focus on helping weaponize where possible.

A grey "neither confirm nor deny, FAFO" WMD deterrent will also be part of this strategy. Very promising that the South Koreans have adopted SLBM already and that the Japanese have a good plutonium stockpile and have bomb tech they can quickly assemble at the ready (all hushed up for time being)....along with active increasing interest in how this relates w.r.t Taiwan as well in concert with the US. We will see if there is a role for India here too with time.

Brahmos (PH and Viet) in the southern arc is appearing as just one small part of this as well.

CCP has really picked the wrong enemies at the wrong time for itself given its demographic crisis and other ones mounting. We will need to be coordinated with others to exploit all of this. India made small part of its intention known when the AUKUS TOT vote (PRC was accusing the whole thing as some kind of nuclear proliferation) came up in IAEA and India voted to deny it be brought to tabling any kind of motion....rather than take its traditional neutral stance that China had grown accustomed to.

It is in India's interest now to see the whole eastern + southern seaboard of Asia Pacific weaponize fully to maximum amount possible and be on friendliest terms with them all....so we can all ride out the long term unfolding internal grave issues within PRC that will enforce reality there long term given the complete lack of trust + even Malthusian level fear the totalitarian psyche CCP had and has with its larger people that precipitated all of it.
 

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#India Can Sell 1-2 #Kilo-Class and Build 4-5 #Scorpene-Class #Submarines for #Philippines Navy

We are severely deficient in SSK numbers ourselves. How can we have surplus production this decade to export? Kilo class retire and refurbish to export (along with training of their personnel) to friendly ASEAN countries I can understand....but scorpene export hub is extremely unlikely as Indian navy has pressing requirement here that it is already well behind on.
 

JOYDEEPGHOSH

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We are severely deficient in SSK numbers ourselves. How can we have surplus production this decade to export? Kilo class retire and refurbish to export (along with training of their personnel) to friendly ASEAN countries I can understand....but scorpene export hub is extremely unlikely as Indian navy has pressing requirement here that it is already well behind on.
agreed but have you read the reason why I say India could better suit Phillippines than france, mareem aip costing for scorpene n Phillippines economy all these will mean India is better suited also India is planning for 3 more scorpene if Phillippines deal is though it may help bring down cost and may be we get 4th also totalling 10 after which the indigenous design will/should be opted
 

JOYDEEPGHOSH

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We are severely deficient in SSK numbers ourselves. How can we have surplus production this decade to export? Kilo class retire and refurbish to export (along with training of their personnel) to friendly ASEAN countries I can understand....but scorpene export hub is extremely unlikely as Indian navy has pressing requirement here that it is already well behind on.
check the 1st paragraph for your answer
 

Nilgiri

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check the 1st paragraph for your answer

Fair enough. But its just at MOU stage now. Lot of things have been brought up for India before in MOU stage and nothing materialised downroad from it. I guess lets see if the investment actually sizeably happens, I will be happy for my skepticism to be proven wrong.
 

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Big updates on the surface combatant front:


Earlier, plan was for 5 ships of the NGD class. Then, it seems it was increased to 6. The latest updates (source from a MDL investors' conference call) put the requirement at 8 ships of the class! This program, now estimated to be worth Rs. 80,000 crore or roughly $10 billion will see the ships delivered in two batches of 4 ships each.

Also, we now have confirmation regarding the numbers & estimated cost of the Project-17B program (Nilgiri-class follow through). This program will also see construction of 8 vessels costing roughly $7.5 billion. That means the Indian Navy will get a total of 15 frigates of this family (7 Nilgiri & 8 Nilgiri-Upgrade).

@Nilgiri @Anmdt
 

Afif

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Does Nilgiri class frigates feature VDS for ASW?
 

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