India Navy Indian Navy

[Lonewolf]

The RFI sure specifies some interesting things:

View attachment 30330

Those are some huge-a$$ lifts they want. Bigger than what are on the Vikrant carrier! (which I think are ~18.5m wide, dunno length for sure).

Also mentioned in the RFI is that the Lifts & Hangar deck must be able to handle aircraft of up to 24 tons weight. That's the weight of a loaded V22 Osprey prepped for VTOL ops (short-take off config can carry more). Plus the Lift size is tremendous, can handle a Chinook (22.6 ton MTOW) without needing to remove its rotors (which can't be folded), like they do on the HMS Queen Elizabeth.

View attachment 30331
View attachment 30332

Either way, this RFI certainly makes it seem like they have plans for operating much bigger helicopters than even the upcoming IMRH medium-lift (13-ton) helo:

View attachment 30339

The secondary lift (22x10m) seems tailored for a folded-up V22, which is pretty long (19m) but not very wide (~5m):

The competing designs for this RFI sure cannot be any off-the-shelf model, will require SIGNIFICANT modification. The lifts on the Juan Carlos for instance are only 17x11m (primary) and 13x11 (secondary; aft).

In the end I won't be surprised if the end result would look like a downsized America/Wasp-class style of flight deck/lift arrangement:

View attachment 30333

Another important detail is this:

View attachment 30334

The flight deck should be able to operate helicopters with 40-ton MTOW! That's in CH-53K King Stallion territory!

View attachment 30335

I doubt whether Indian Navy would be buying these though - its likely this specific requirement was created keeping possibility of cross-decking operations with USN/USMC in mind (where American helos could land/operate from our ships in an emergency).

Last but not least:

View attachment 30336

SAMs are to be expected for self-defence purposes but the sizeable SSM requirement is interesting. I'm guessing they could intend to put 16 x Nirbhay LACMs on these ships and give them an ability to directly support amphibious landing parties either pre- or post-landing by softening up land targets. The US Navy was/is exploring a similar concept with their San Antonio-class amphibious ships, not sure of any update on that though:

Navy, Marine Corps Considering Adding VLS to San Antonio Amphibs

The Navy and the Marine Corps are studying installing a vertical launch system in its San Antonio class of amphibious warships, officials told USNI News.

news.usni.org

@Gautam @Lonewolf @Raptor @Cabatli_53 @Test7 @LegionnairE @Kartal1 @Anmdt

Tagging everyone because this could be a program worth watching, I'm thinking the designs that could emerge as potential competitors would be very interesting to see.

Lift are important because they might want faster deployment with twin helicopter at a time .

Ssm etc are all added keeping in mind the theater command .

Think of it , we have to go to a contested territory with naval defense in place , so first lacm will clear that for the amphibious team to go , faster deployment of helicopter and deck operation as the maintenance should be done faster for asset of army too for quick redeployment . Like chinook .

Also vlsrsam will be required if they get attacked by coastal defense missile .

This is a quite detailed and thought after design , also consideration is not only for osprey but for the futuristic heli that will come in future .

 

[Lonewolf]

One thing I failed to understand is why Indian armed forces set such high requirements to even fulfill.

Not too high to fullfill .

It can all be packed in a 28000 ton

 

[Raptor]

Not too high to fullfill .

It can all be packed in a 28000 ton

Not this one,I mean in general

 

[Lonewolf]

Not this one,I mean in general

Army makes specs out of air , air force and navy are practical .

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434195370444087297

 

[Gessler]

Lift are important because they might want faster deployment with twin helicopter at a time .

Perhaps, but unlikely to be the defining need. This is important for carriers that launch fighters as they may have to respond rapidly in order to intercept incoming threats. But large-scale vertical lift is almost never done spontaneously, even for HADR it all happens in a well thought-out manner so bringing up more helos faster is unlikely to be the reason for wanting bigger lifts (though it could end up being a concurrent benefit).

,faster deployment of helicopter and deck operation as the maintenance should be done faster for asset of army too for quick redeployment . Like chinook .

This is true. Employment of a heavy-lift helo can significantly enhance the ship-to-shore logistics chain of any amphibious or even HADR operation. That's the reason why even the RAF Chinooks were routinely deployed on HMS Ocean even though the ship's lifts/hangar couldn't handle the bird. Just by operating from the flight deck, it was a significant capability addition. Same applies to our carriers as well.

 

[Lonewolf]

Perhaps, but unlikely to be the defining need. This is important for carriers that launch fighters as they may have to respond rapidly in order to intercept incoming threats. But large-scale vertical lift is almost never done spontaneously, even for HADR it all happens in a well thought-out manner so bringing up more helos faster is unlikely to be the reason for wanting bigger lifts (though it could end up being a concurrent benefit).



This is true. Employment of a heavy-lift helo can significantly enhance the ship-to-shore logistics chain of any amphibious or even HADR operation. That's the reason why even the RAF Chinooks were routinely deployed on HMS Ocean even though the ship's lifts/hangar couldn't handle the bird. Just by operating from the flight deck, it was a significant capability addition. Same applies to our carriers as well.

View attachment 30372

What if they have amca mk2 in mind . With proper tvc engine it might do takeoff from it

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[Gessler]

The Indian Navy's new 11,300-ton technology demonstration vessel INS Anvesh is reportedly out at sea (officially, sea trials haven't started yet). The large dual-face radar housing can be seen behind the superstructure:

And the missile compartments behind that:

This ship will supposedly test the next-gen SAM/ABMs in combination with a large new AESA radar developed locally (LRMFR), and possibly the combat management system as well. This whole package would eventually find its way onto the Navy's NGD & NGF surface combatants that would emerge toward late this decade. The LRMFR (rather, a 4-array version of it) would end the Navy's reliance on the ELM-2248 MFSTAR.

Additionally, it may also serve as a missile range instrumentation ship in support of the larger 15,000-ton INS Dhruv (a dedicated MRIS) for testing of Ballistic/Cruise missiles out to sea.

@Nilgiri @Gautam @Cabatli_53

 

[Rajendra Chola]

Good we are getting some support ships. Hope we can get a move on Mine counter vessels, submarine rescue vessel (2 ordered I guess), and mini subs for special force ops.

 

[RogerRanger]

Indians navy is improving very well.

 

[RogerRanger]

Can I ask, what is the overall naval force structure India has in mind at the moment?

The Chinese seem to be going for 6 carriers. And around 70 escort ships and 70 plus subs.

 

[sarthak]

Can I ask, what is the overall naval force structure India has in mind at the moment?

The Chinese seem to be going for 6 carriers. And around 70 escort ships and 70 plus subs.

In 2027 India will have 10 destroyers 23 frigates 40 something corvettes 2 aircraft carriers. Long term goal is 3 fixed wing aircraft carriers(2 45000 tons and 1 65000 tons) and 4 helicopter carriers (30000+ tons ) 4 SSBN 24 SSK 6-7 SSN by 2035.

 

[RogerRanger]

In 2027 India will have 10 destroyers 23 frigates 40 something corvettes 2 aircraft carriers. Long term goal is 3 fixed wing aircraft carriers(2 45000 tons and 1 65000 tons) and 4 helicopter carriers (30000+ tons ) 4 SSBN 24 SSK 6-7 SSN by 2035.

Thanks. Nice well rounded fleet.

 

[Gessler]

Can I ask, what is the overall naval force structure India has in mind at the moment?

The Chinese seem to be going for 6 carriers. And around 70 escort ships and 70 plus subs.

I made a post on here a while back about the same:

Indian Navy

A bit of throwback time (old archive footage, varying pitch tape reel and everything) of a venerable design. Leander Frigates (Nilgiri class :) ) A crucial earlier program to getting Indian warship local design and production capacity where it is today: 6 were made with increasing local...

defencehub.live

But I have now updated the 2 x MRSV to 4 in keeping with updated requirements. Here's the list as it stands:

I've put together a pretty realistic/conservative estimate of the Indian Navy's warship & submarine plans for the next 2 decades.

NOTE: Only those projects that are known quantities have been included, as such some programs that are in distant future (like Next-Gen Frigate NGF) are not mentioned. I've arbitrarily drawn the line between major & minor combatant at 3,000T purely based on displacement (indicative of range/endurance/mission), otherwise some of the Minors here have more teeth than some Majors. Note that 1) new ships will be replacing old classes so only those ships that are reasonably likely to still be in service for a considerable period of time (~at least a decade from now) are listed. 2) I'm not counting any fictional boats that either do not have approval, or never quoted as existing, or too far away to consider as realistic like IAC-2 carrier or P-28A corvette or P-76 SSP respectively.

34 Major Surface Combatants

4 x Project 15B Visakhapatnam-class -- 7500t Destroyer
3 x Project 15A Kolkata-class -- 7400t Destroyer
3 x Either/or Project 15 Delhi-class refitted or Project 18 NGD (1 to 1 replacement possible) -- 6900t / 10,000+ ton Destroyer
7 x Project 17A Nilgiri-class -- 6700t Frigate
3 x Project 17 Shivalik-class -- 6200t Frigate
10 x Talwar/Krivak-II/Adm. Grigorovich-class -- 4000t Frigate
4 x Project 28 Kamorta-class -- 3400t Ocean-going Corvette

52 Minor Surface Combatants

7 x NGC -- Corvette
6 x NGMV -- 2500t Corvette
16 x Shallow-water ASW -- 700t Littoral Corvette
11 x NGOPV -- 2500t Ocean-going OPV
4 x Saryu-class -- 2200t Ocean-going OPV
8 x NG-MCMV -- Minesweeper

2 Aircraft Carriers

1 x Vikramaditya -- 45,700t STOBAR
1 x Project 71 Vikrant -- 45,000t STOBAR

13 Nuclear Submarines

3 x Arihant-class -- 7000t SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
1 x S4* class -- ~8500t SSBN
3 x S5 class -- 13,500t SSBN
6 x Project 75A -- 5000t SSN

12 Diesel Submarines

6 x Project 75 Kalvari (Scorpene)-class -- 1800t SSK (later retrofitted to become SSP)
6 x Project 75I class -- ~3000t SSP

18 Amphibious Warfare Platforms

4 x MRSV -- ~20-25,000t LHD
8 x Mk.4 -- 1000t LCU
1 x Jalashwa -- 16,000t LPD
3 x Shardul-class -- 5700t LST
2 x Magar-class -- 5600t LST

That's about 106 surface combatants (88 fighting ships, 18 amphibs) & 25 large subsurface combatants - the sharp end of a roughly 200-ship Navy that includes other non-combat types like Fleet Replenishment, Support ships like submarine tenders, deep-sea rescue platforms, & Special vessels like Missile Range Instrumentation, hydrographic survey, etc etc (some of the types which USNS would operate) as well as smaller coastal submarines.

By no means an exhaustive list...just something I put together in an hour of free time.

 

[Lonewolf]

I made a post on here a while back about the same:

Indian Navy

A bit of throwback time (old archive footage, varying pitch tape reel and everything) of a venerable design. Leander Frigates (Nilgiri class :) ) A crucial earlier program to getting Indian warship local design and production capacity where it is today: 6 were made with increasing local...

defencehub.live

But I have now updated the 2 x MRSV to 4 in keeping with updated requirements. Here's the list as it stands:

I've put together a pretty realistic/conservative estimate of the Indian Navy's warship & submarine plans for the next 2 decades.

NOTE: Only those projects that are known quantities have been included, as such some programs that are in distant future (like Next-Gen Frigate NGF) are not mentioned. I've arbitrarily drawn the line between major & minor combatant at 3,000T purely based on displacement (indicative of range/endurance/mission), otherwise some of the Minors here have more teeth than some Majors. Note that 1) new ships will be replacing old classes so only those ships that are reasonably likely to still be in service for a considerable period of time (~at least a decade from now) are listed. 2) I'm not counting any fictional boats that either do not have approval, or never quoted as existing, or too far away to consider as realistic like IAC-2 carrier or P-28A corvette or P-76 SSP respectively.

34 Major Surface Combatants

4 x Project 15B Visakhapatnam-class -- 7500t Destroyer
3 x Project 15A Kolkata-class -- 7400t Destroyer
3 x Either/or Project 15 Delhi-class refitted or Project 18 NGD (1 to 1 replacement possible) -- 6900t / 10,000+ ton Destroyer
7 x Project 17A Nilgiri-class -- 6700t Frigate
3 x Project 17 Shivalik-class -- 6200t Frigate
10 x Talwar/Krivak-II/Adm. Grigorovich-class -- 4000t Frigate
4 x Project 28 Kamorta-class -- 3400t Ocean-going Corvette

52 Minor Surface Combatants

7 x NGC -- Corvette
6 x NGMV -- 2500t Corvette
16 x Shallow-water ASW -- 700t Littoral Corvette
11 x NGOPV -- 2500t Ocean-going OPV
4 x Saryu-class -- 2200t Ocean-going OPV
8 x NG-MCMV -- Minesweeper

2 Aircraft Carriers

1 x Vikramaditya -- 45,700t STOBAR
1 x Project 71 Vikrant -- 45,000t STOBAR

13 Nuclear Submarines

3 x Arihant-class -- 7000t SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
1 x S4* class -- ~8500t SSBN
3 x S5 class -- 13,500t SSBN
6 x Project 75A -- 5000t SSN

12 Diesel Submarines

6 x Project 75 Kalvari (Scorpene)-class -- 1800t SSK (later retrofitted to become SSP)
6 x Project 75I class -- ~3000t SSP

18 Amphibious Warfare Platforms

4 x MRSV -- ~20-25,000t LHD
8 x Mk.4 -- 1000t LCU
1 x Jalashwa -- 16,000t LPD
3 x Shardul-class -- 5700t LST
2 x Magar-class -- 5600t LST

That's about 106 surface combatants (88 fighting ships, 18 amphibs) & 25 large subsurface combatants - the sharp end of a roughly 200-ship Navy that includes other non-combat types like Fleet Replenishment, Support ships like submarine tenders, deep-sea rescue platforms, & Special vessels like Missile Range Instrumentation, hydrographic survey, etc etc (some of the types which USNS would operate) as well as smaller coastal submarines.

By no means an exhaustive list...just something I put together in an hour of free time.

Ngc and ngmv are major surface combatants

 

[RogerRanger]

I made a post on here a while back about the same:

Indian Navy

A bit of throwback time (old archive footage, varying pitch tape reel and everything) of a venerable design. Leander Frigates (Nilgiri class :) ) A crucial earlier program to getting Indian warship local design and production capacity where it is today: 6 were made with increasing local...

defencehub.live

But I have now updated the 2 x MRSV to 4 in keeping with updated requirements. Here's the list as it stands:

I've put together a pretty realistic/conservative estimate of the Indian Navy's warship & submarine plans for the next 2 decades.

NOTE: Only those projects that are known quantities have been included, as such some programs that are in distant future (like Next-Gen Frigate NGF) are not mentioned. I've arbitrarily drawn the line between major & minor combatant at 3,000T purely based on displacement (indicative of range/endurance/mission), otherwise some of the Minors here have more teeth than some Majors. Note that 1) new ships will be replacing old classes so only those ships that are reasonably likely to still be in service for a considerable period of time (~at least a decade from now) are listed. 2) I'm not counting any fictional boats that either do not have approval, or never quoted as existing, or too far away to consider as realistic like IAC-2 carrier or P-28A corvette or P-76 SSP respectively.

34 Major Surface Combatants

4 x Project 15B Visakhapatnam-class -- 7500t Destroyer
3 x Project 15A Kolkata-class -- 7400t Destroyer
3 x Either/or Project 15 Delhi-class refitted or Project 18 NGD (1 to 1 replacement possible) -- 6900t / 10,000+ ton Destroyer
7 x Project 17A Nilgiri-class -- 6700t Frigate
3 x Project 17 Shivalik-class -- 6200t Frigate
10 x Talwar/Krivak-II/Adm. Grigorovich-class -- 4000t Frigate
4 x Project 28 Kamorta-class -- 3400t Ocean-going Corvette

52 Minor Surface Combatants

7 x NGC -- Corvette
6 x NGMV -- 2500t Corvette
16 x Shallow-water ASW -- 700t Littoral Corvette
11 x NGOPV -- 2500t Ocean-going OPV
4 x Saryu-class -- 2200t Ocean-going OPV
8 x NG-MCMV -- Minesweeper

2 Aircraft Carriers

1 x Vikramaditya -- 45,700t STOBAR
1 x Project 71 Vikrant -- 45,000t STOBAR

13 Nuclear Submarines

3 x Arihant-class -- 7000t SSBN (later possible conversion to SSGN)
1 x S4* class -- ~8500t SSBN
3 x S5 class -- 13,500t SSBN
6 x Project 75A -- 5000t SSN

12 Diesel Submarines

6 x Project 75 Kalvari (Scorpene)-class -- 1800t SSK (later retrofitted to become SSP)
6 x Project 75I class -- ~3000t SSP

18 Amphibious Warfare Platforms

4 x MRSV -- ~20-25,000t LHD
8 x Mk.4 -- 1000t LCU
1 x Jalashwa -- 16,000t LPD
3 x Shardul-class -- 5700t LST
2 x Magar-class -- 5600t LST

That's about 106 surface combatants (88 fighting ships, 18 amphibs) & 25 large subsurface combatants - the sharp end of a roughly 200-ship Navy that includes other non-combat types like Fleet Replenishment, Support ships like submarine tenders, deep-sea rescue platforms, & Special vessels like Missile Range Instrumentation, hydrographic survey, etc etc (some of the types which USNS would operate) as well as smaller coastal submarines.

By no means an exhaustive list...just something I put together in an hour of free time.

Very much appreciated. What type of jet are you expecting to fly from the carriers? The TAL's? I think that's what its called


Very good fleet, I can see any gaps or weaknesses in it. Got the strategic assets, tactical, patrol, amphibious all good stuff. Very well balance fleet. Given the size of India and its need to operate across the Indian ocean, you need a large fleet too.

 

[Lonewolf]

Very much appreciated. What type of jet are you expecting to fly from the carriers? The TAL's? I think that's what its called.

Tal ???

Tedbf

After 2030

Till then good old mig 29k .

Tedbf is basically a rafale m category but more powerful engine (ge 414 , later upgradation to indigenous 110+kn ones ) and newer technologies

 

[RogerRanger]

Tal ???

Tedbf
View attachment 30631
After 2030

Till then good old mig 29k .

Tedbf is basically a rafale m category but more powerful engine (ge 414 , later upgradation to indigenous 110+kn ones ) and newer technologies

This thing here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas

Nice looks good and capable.

 

[Lonewolf]

This thing here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas

Nice looks good and capable.

That's a part of indigenous program , our first project .

Tedbf is specifically for carrier operations to reduce maintenance issue etc .