Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

Madokafc

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Double edged was always worrying indeed . Too bad we lack a much off a better neutral provider ...

Indian Israel AEW system back then is much more preferable @Nilgiri

As Israel is user of F16 and F15 along with India as user of Rafale
 

Philips

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1. Buy Chinese drone
2. Complain about a far fetched compromise of an AEW system through a friend of China
3. ????
4. PROFIT!!!

So this is the mentality that prevents Indonesia from cooperating with friendly nations in matters of defence.
 

FPXAllen

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1. Buy Chinese drone
2. Complain about a far fetched compromise of an AEW system through a friend of China
3. ????
4. PROFIT!!!

So this is the mentality that prevents Indonesia from cooperating with friendly nations in matters of defence.
Not to debate you about those points you wrote, since they are actually happening. However, speaking about the mentality, while this might not easy to understand, but I think one of the reasons why we're so difficult to have a 'proper' defence cooperation with friendly nations lies in how Indonesians really think of the words "friendly nations" themselves.

In short, there's always some sort of suspicion when Indonesia is getting closer to any nation - so much so that it becomes like a sort of 'hedgehog dilemma' for us.

You probably can understand this better if you know that between 1970's to early 2000's, Indonesia wasn't really well known internationally due to the country's tendency to lay low and out of the spotlight. No wonder that one writer quoted that Indonesia is the "Biggest invisible thing on earth".

This is by no means to justify anything. At the very least, that's just how I see it.
 

Philips

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Not to debate you about those points you wrote, since they are actually happening. However, speaking about the mentality, while this might not easy to understand, but I think one of the reasons why we're so difficult to have a 'proper' defence cooperation with friendly nations lies in how Indonesians really think of the words "friendly nations" themselves.

In short, there's always some sort of suspicion when Indonesia is getting closer to any nation - so much so that it becomes like a sort of 'hedgehog dilemma' for us.

You probably can understand this better if you know that between 1970's to early 2000's, Indonesia wasn't really well known internationally due to the country's tendency to lay low and out of the spotlight. No wonder that one writer quoted that Indonesia is the "Biggest invisible thing on earth".

This is by no means to justify anything. At the very least, that's just how I see it.
With other words: ingrained paranoia?
 

FPXAllen

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With other words: ingrained paranoia?
More or less.

Rightly or wrongly, we've learned that no countries are really our "friends". Whether the West, East, near or far.

Even today when things look quite 'clear-cut' - geopolitically speaking - we're still trying to maintain the status quo for ourselves. That makes us being seen either as a potential ally as well as potential enemy for each and every countries involved in the region.
 

Ravager

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Indian Israel AEW system back then is much more preferable @Nilgiri


As Israel is user of F16 and F15 along with India as user of Rafale

Well , the word kosher there has to be meaning something isn't ??
1. Buy Chinese drone
2. Complain about a far fetched compromise of an AEW system through a friend of China
3. ????
4. PROFIT!!!

So this is the mentality that prevents Indonesia from cooperating with friendly nations in matters of defence.

With other words: ingrained paranoia?

Rather than paranoia .... We are simply too just densentized and too laid back for our own good . Non Aligned in every sense of the words . We just want to be left alone .We believe in no body which in return everybody won't believe us either . and sometime it would bite us in the ass hard .... Like today .
 

Nilgiri

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The one that PRC almost bought?

Yeah Israel was a little too forthcoming in PRC bonhomie+rehabilitation period (in new era after cold war etc) of the 90s/2000s.

I mean even (fairly pro PRC) clinton admin eventually reined them in from proceeding on delivery (Israel had to compensate PRC on cancellation charges).

There are always persistent murmurs on what Israelis also provided China from their cancelled Lavi program.

Nowadays things are much more segregated camps increasingly in geopolitics. I see Indonesia moving to (deep) western acquisition profile. Where relevant, it could involve Israelis or the related MIC-collab in US. It would be quite leg up if Indonesia works pragmatically here for its indigenous ecosystem for radars, missiles etc. LRDE (in India's case) has progressed quite substantially in last 2 decades with Israeli acquisition+cooperation.
 
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AtariDemocrat45

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It would be quite leg up if Indonesia works pragmatically here for its indigenous ecosystem for radars, missiles etc. LRDE (in India's case) has progressed quite substantially in last 2 decades with Israeli acquisition+cooperation.
I think so. Israel is kind of wide open about their weapon actually (the one without US stuffs), the problem is Indonesia itself. We don't have embassy there, not even de facto embassy like what we have Taiwan. But don't worry, I know Israeli company that even have (kinda) branch here, Netafim, I don't know how they manage the paperwork. I think we still can manage that if we want to cooperate with them.
 

Parry Brima

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1. Buy Chinese drone
2. Complain about a far fetched compromise of an AEW system through a friend of China
3. ????
4. PROFIT!!!

So this is the mentality that prevents Indonesia from cooperating with friendly nations in matters of defence.

This kind of narratives is what's been plaguing Indonesia defense environment over the years. Some part of it (if not most), I believe, have been created intentionally by the sales representatives from advanced countries to fool the public for their own pocket interest.
 

AtariDemocrat45

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This kind of narratives is what's been plaguing Indonesia defense environment over the years. Some part of it (if not most), I believe, have been created intentionally by the sales representatives from advanced countries to fool the public for their own pocket interest.
Now, lot of Indonesian think like this :
1. Chinese : Communist
2. US : Embargo
3. Russia : Divinely Perfect
 

Parry Brima

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Now, lot of Indonesian think like this :
1. Chinese : Communist
2. US : Embargo
3. Russia : Divinely Perfect

That's the excess of the narratives that's been infecting Indonesia for long.

Thank God, alhamdulillah, we now have a MoD that informs us there's actually some other part of the world called "Europe".
 

Var Dracon

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Not to debate you about those points you wrote, since they are actually happening. However, speaking about the mentality, while this might not easy to understand, but I think one of the reasons why we're so difficult to have a 'proper' defence cooperation with friendly nations lies in how Indonesians really think of the words "friendly nations" themselves.

In short, there's always some sort of suspicion when Indonesia is getting closer to any nation - so much so that it becomes like a sort of 'hedgehog dilemma' for us.

You probably can understand this better if you know that between 1970's to early 2000's, Indonesia wasn't really well known internationally due to the country's tendency to lay low and out of the spotlight. No wonder that one writer quoted that Indonesia is the "Biggest invisible thing on earth".

This is by no means to justify anything. At the very least, that's just how I see it.
Well, Indonesians (time-relative speaking) is already invisible even before the formation of the Republic itself. Just ask any people about which people was the most meritorious in shipping and voyage BEFORE the early modern era. They'll answer Chinese, Portuguese, Spanish, or Dutch (the last 3 were wrong because they're IN early modern era). If they answer is Chinese it's not too mistaken because they made big voyages in Zheng He era, but this is ignoring the fact that Nusantaran people has equally strong fleet in the same era. And the ships are equally large too compared to the Chinese treasure ships. In fact, the Chinese learned much from the ancient Indonesians about how to make junk sails, big ships, sturdy hull, rigging multiple mast, and how to sail in the open seas (not coast-hugging). And there is evidence that the ancient Indonesians even sailed through the Atlantic. These informations usually does not get enough attention from common people even historians. This is why ancient Indonesians are called "The Phantom Voyagers" and "The Invisible Agent of the Eastern Trade".
 
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