Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Chestnut]

Many countries (Qatar, Saudi, Israel, etc) purchased F-15 through FMS. What's the reason not liking it? Is the "FMS version" much worse than the ones the USAF operate?

It's significantly harder to corrupt an FMS deal since everything is detailed to the letter.

 

[schuimpjes]

It's significantly harder to corrupt an FMS deal since everything is detailed to the letter.

BOOM..... you read my mind.

 

[schuimpjes]

However F-15 SG, K, SA and QA; F-16 Block 70 are examples of export versions that are better that what being used by USAF at the time of their acquisition

I'm not talking about the weapon systems, but the way to acquire that, which is FMS. It's not just about weapon systems, there are a lot of people that involved on the acquisitions and all of them have their own interests.

 

[NEKO]

FMS's T word is the main reason why I suspicious that MoD doesn't like it.

Hih... dingin² serem

BOOM..... you read my mind.

Be careful.

Did we cancel Osprey?

 

[schuimpjes]

Did we cancel Osprey?

Seretnya kerasa.

Btw, that will be stupid to capture me using intelligence service in this democratic environment, they need more plausible deniability, local PP maybe wkwk

I'm not pointing finger at individual, just a suspicion without evidence.

 

[Parry Brima]

It's significantly harder to corrupt an FMS deal since everything is detailed to the letter.

This is a myth. There was a huge corruption case regarding our F-16 procurement in the past.

So huge that they eventually have to sacrifice a one-star general to get a life sentence without any clear evidence to prevent others from getting caught.

Brigjen Teddy Dihukum Seumur Hidup karena Korupsi F-16, ICW: Mengejutkan

Brigjen Teddy Hernayadi dihukum penjara seumur hidup oleh Pengadilan Militer Tinggi II Jakarta. ICW mengaku kaget dengan putusan tersebut.

news.detik.com

Kasus Korupsi F-16, Kemhan: 40 Orang Dapat Pinjaman Duit dari Brigjen Teddy

Irjen Kemhan Marsdya TNI Hadi Tjahjanto mengatakan, kasus korupssi alutsista Brigjen Teddy menjadi pintu masuk dalam aksi bersih-bersih di lingkungan Kemhan.

news.detik.com

 

[schuimpjes]

This is a myth. There was a huge corruption case regarding our F-16 procurement in the past.

So huge that they eventually have to sacrifice a one-star general to get a life sentence without any clear evidence to prevent others from getting caught.

Brigjen Teddy Dihukum Seumur Hidup karena Korupsi F-16, ICW: Mengejutkan

Brigjen Teddy Hernayadi dihukum penjara seumur hidup oleh Pengadilan Militer Tinggi II Jakarta. ICW mengaku kaget dengan putusan tersebut.

news.detik.com

Kasus Korupsi F-16, Kemhan: 40 Orang Dapat Pinjaman Duit dari Brigjen Teddy

Irjen Kemhan Marsdya TNI Hadi Tjahjanto mengatakan, kasus korupssi alutsista Brigjen Teddy menjadi pintu masuk dalam aksi bersih-bersih di lingkungan Kemhan.

news.detik.com

He just stupid tho. If you want to corrupt, use front company, if just like him ya ketauan banget orang duitnya gak dibayarin.

Buat PT untuk rekanan pengadaan and sell your goods to the consumer. Jadi konsumer misal mau beli Tank, beli nya ke PT rekanan pengadaan itu, bukan ke OEM nya. Nah, mark up nya di PT rekanan pengadaan itu.

With FMS scheme what you got is G to G instead of B to G alias tanpa rekanan.

 

[Parry Brima]

He just stupid tho. If you want to corrupt, use front company, if just like him ya ketauan banget orang duitnya gak dibayarin.

Buat PT untuk rekanan pengadaan and sell your goods to the consumer. Jadi konsumer misal mau beli Tank, beli nya ke PT rekanan pengadaan itu, bukan ke OEM nya. Nah, mark up nya di PT rekanan pengadaan itu.

With FMS scheme what you got is G to G instead of B to G alias tanpa rekanan.

All of our F-16 were bought using FMS scheme.

 

[Umigami]

This is a myth. There was a huge corruption case regarding our F-16 procurement in the past.

So huge that they eventually have to sacrifice a one-star general to get a life sentence without any clear evidence to prevent others from getting caught.

Brigjen Teddy Dihukum Seumur Hidup karena Korupsi F-16, ICW: Mengejutkan

Brigjen Teddy Hernayadi dihukum penjara seumur hidup oleh Pengadilan Militer Tinggi II Jakarta. ICW mengaku kaget dengan putusan tersebut.

news.detik.com

Kasus Korupsi F-16, Kemhan: 40 Orang Dapat Pinjaman Duit dari Brigjen Teddy

Irjen Kemhan Marsdya TNI Hadi Tjahjanto mengatakan, kasus korupssi alutsista Brigjen Teddy menjadi pintu masuk dalam aksi bersih-bersih di lingkungan Kemhan.

news.detik.com

How did they could investigate this case and prosecute him in the first place?
Because of FMS's transparency...

 

[schuimpjes]

All of our F-16 were bought using FMS scheme.

Tapi sama tu pelaku duitnya gak dibayarin, sayang, ketauan lah, itulah goblok nya pelaku. Kalo mau nakal tu ya pinter dikit.

"‎Jadi dia seharusnya membayarkan kontrak, berdasarkan termin-termin pembayaran. Ketika waktunya membayar itu ada sesuatu yang disalahgunakan, ‎dia tidak membayarkan uang pembelian alutsista tersebut," kata Kepala Pusat Komunikasi dan Informasi Publik Brigjen Djundan Eko Bintora saat berbincang dengan Liputan6.com, Jumat (9/12/2016).

Source:

Divonis Seumur Hidup, Jenderal Penilap Duit F-16 Melawan

Teddy resmi mengajukan upaya hukum banding pasca vonis seumur hidup atas dakwaan korupsi.

m.liputan6.com

 

[Parry Brima]

How did they could investigate this case and prosecute him in the first place?
Because of transparency...

That guy was just one unlucky pawn. This so called "transparency" prevented most of the crooks including the big ones from getting caught.

 

[Umigami]

That guy was just one unlucky pawn. This so called "transparency" prevented most of the crooks including the big ones from getting caught.

Then how about all that Europe, Russian, and Chinese deal we have so far?

What mechanism they have to make them any better to prevent something like this?

 

[wekiweko]

I'm not talking about the weapon systems, but the way to acquire that, which is FMS. It's not just about weapon systems, there are a lot of people that involved on the acquisitions and all of them have their own interests.

considering that FMS uses a G to G scheme and as quoted by Chestnut that it being the safest scheme from any "unique" and "funny" variables, perhaps it is the reason of why it is not that popular here. Am not trying to insinuate anything but it is a possibility

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443484257901371393

TRUE

 

[Barjo_2]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443484257901371393

TRUE

That is skak mat

 

[NEKO]

Why not lobbying for some US naval systems instead? Using MoD-MoFA combo.

 

[flogger]

Why not lobbying for some US naval systems instead? Using MoD-MoFA combo.

Maybe becouse most of our naval sys is come from euro

Like their rejection to TPS 77 radar sys

 

[Chestnut]

This is a myth. There was a huge corruption case regarding our F-16 procurement in the past.

So huge that they eventually have to sacrifice a one-star general to get a life sentence without any clear evidence to prevent others from getting caught.

Brigjen Teddy Dihukum Seumur Hidup karena Korupsi F-16, ICW: Mengejutkan

Brigjen Teddy Hernayadi dihukum penjara seumur hidup oleh Pengadilan Militer Tinggi II Jakarta. ICW mengaku kaget dengan putusan tersebut.

news.detik.com

Kasus Korupsi F-16, Kemhan: 40 Orang Dapat Pinjaman Duit dari Brigjen Teddy

Irjen Kemhan Marsdya TNI Hadi Tjahjanto mengatakan, kasus korupssi alutsista Brigjen Teddy menjadi pintu masuk dalam aksi bersih-bersih di lingkungan Kemhan.

news.detik.com

This corruption is stemmed from our side misquoting the actual amount of funds needed for the products that were to be procured, thus more funds were allocated then normal. The fact that he was easily caught is a testament to how hard it is to get away with corrupting an FMS deal.

 

[Parry Brima]

Then how about all that Europe, Russian, and Chinese deal we have so far?

What mechanism they have to make them any better to prevent something like this?

In case you forget, we just successfully sealed our huge mega deal to buy FREMM from Europe.

I believe I read someone mentioned Tutut's name regarding the deal with Europe. Well, the fact that pro-america hardcores need to dig that far to super dirty Suharto regime for small case, while we recently signed our biggest ever single deal from Europe (record breaking single deal in our entire military procurement history) in Jokowi regime kinda shows us that you're all grasping at straws here

I have a feeling that MoD doesn't want FMS, does anyone here feel the same too? CMIIW

I always see that MoD is always setengah hati if the procurement using FMS scheme.

I think I got an idea now. IF (again it's a big IF) the MoD doesn't fancy FMS, it's probably because he's aware that there are still plenty of pro-america crooks at large at the high places that's been targetting our potential FMS deal with the US

This corruption is stemmed from our side misquoting the actual amount of funds needed for the products that were to be procured, thus more funds were allocated then normal. The fact that he was easily caught is a testament to how hard it is to get away with corrupting an FMS deal.

Don't be so naive He's not easily caught. He's the sacrifice. The pawn. To protect other biggest crooks. In fact this is the bad precedent against FMS. It happened before, it could potentially happen again in the future.

 

[Madokafc]

Maybe N219 can be converted into something like this one