Number wise 42? What do you think about how many KF21 block 1 should be bought for the AF?Mirage as interim would be good and can only be good IF we induct Rafale as planned (number wise)
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Number wise 42? What do you think about how many KF21 block 1 should be bought for the AF?Mirage as interim would be good and can only be good IF we induct Rafale as planned (number wise)
What I can guess about the numbers being changed often was more toward budget vs munitions = numbers. In other words they are trying to have combat ready fighters and sacrifice fighter numbers to achieve it.Number wise 42?
Too early to talk about numbers, lets see how the test perform results going to be and how our AU match those results into their operational requirements.What do you think about how many KF21 block 1 should be bought for the AF?
Then the solution is that they can advise MoD for that matter, just like in America innit. But not "veto" a budget, change the program, then introduce a new program that contradicts the one made by the responsible ministry.From Kemenkeu perspective; perhaps they also getting tired of inconsistency, inefficiency and ineffectiveness regarding planning, designing and procurring defence equipment. "Satelit Militer" is one of the example including how the former MoD "forgot" to put KFX budget into their allocation. I am not defending them, just trying to give different perspective
Rafale - F-15 - KF-21 are all already given green light politically by all of the suppliers, this is a non-issue. So why talk about this? Just continue with the program as planned, but the STAN Mafia and their ogre mother seem to have their own agenda to fulfill, which is definitely not to support the establishment of a robust military.Yes and No. Keep in mind that sometime the procurement have excessive outside influence, we can create perfect plan but in our case overseas pressure can sometime be too overwhelming an too risky to ignore. Eastern def equipt at earlier stage of Bung Karno, East & West def equipt during late stage (end after JFK), Pak Harto west equipt era during his term, the plan to induct Sukhoi fleet before his term end, the west sanction on def equip, the first Sukhoi arrival in ibu Mega era, and so on. See the big picture here?
The jaman now era; Additional F16 & Sukhoi plan got thrown away due to outside pressure. US via CAATSA and the "plan" to drop F16 out of the picture due to overwhelming pressure not to induct eastern block equipment raise a question on US commitment to fully support our Defense build. Rejection of F35 confirm the US stand toward our nation.
Current world geopolitic dictate our procurement toward more "neutral" and less-risk nation (political stand point) but still can be rely upon political support and technology advancement. The good relation and the statement above put Franco on the top of the list.
How about defense policy being dictated by other ministries? Sack the witch and reform Kemenkeu and such budget policy nuisance will become a non-issueLastly, I am not defending anyone or anything, I am just throwing my 5 cents to give different perspective. Mirage as interim would be good and can only be good IF we induct Rafale as planned (number wise). Perhaps the plan is to leave F16 as it is until they retired and to have Franco-US Mixture (KF21 & T50i)-Sukhoi/EX. Beside the financial burden to get EX, the type of muntions allowed are also being considered, and this going to be heavily related on how we perform our foreign policy. Keep in mind that foreign politcy is based upon our own national interest, and no nation in this world is going to be happy if their own national interest being dictate by others.
Ok boomer.Then the solution is that they can advise MoD for that matter, just like in America innit. But not "veto" a budget, change the program, then introduce a new program that contradicts the one made by the responsible ministry.
If they are "tired of inconsistency, inefficiency, and ineffectiveness" then they should look at a mirror first. In this case alone we can see that they are 1) Inconsistent = Changing Rafale program, do not deliver budget as promised, 2) Inefficient = Unable to allocate enough resources to complete a program as intended, instead start a new one that will require more resources and lobbying while at the same time will not contribute as much as the original program, 3) Ineffective = Failed to deliver satisfactorily the budget requested by another ministry, which in turn will hamper the military strength of Indonesian military in the long run.
It is the financial dictator and her minions who are the source of the problem.
Rafale - F-15 - KF-21 are all already given green light politically by all of the suppliers, this is a non-issue. So why talk about this? Just continue with the program as planned, but the STAN Mafia and their ogre mother seem to have their own agenda to fulfill, which is definitely not to support the establishment of a robust military.
I think you overestimate the Wallet Witch, she ain't considering geopolitics and stuff, she only knows about money and money alone, she's just an overrated bendahara.
If people want a "politically neutral supplier" + "strong modern military", then go for France, get Rafale, SAMP-T, ships, armors, you name it, buy new in substantial numbers, and reform the military to accommodate contemporary tactics and technology. But no, the ogre wanted some second-hand stuff from some desert countries, without clear plan about them in the long run, "genius" indeed.
How about defense policy being dictated by other ministries? Sack the witch and reform Kemenkeu and such budget policy nuisance will become a non-issue
And stick to the original plan, with long-term logistics plan following the initial acquistion.
Whatever, we know the situation is bad and there's someone to blame. As long as people recognize it that's good, at least the witch and her minion's wrongdoings will get exposed.Ok boomer.
International lenders and bankers gave kickback to oknum in Lap Banteng is an open secret. That’s why we keep getting higher interest rates for foreign loans, which some chunk of the interest rates will be allocated for kickbacks to the oknums.Then the solution is that they can advise MoD for that matter, just like in America innit. But not "veto" a budget, change the program, then introduce a new program that contradicts the one made by the responsible ministry.
If they are "tired of inconsistency, inefficiency, and ineffectiveness" then they should look at a mirror first. In this case alone we can see that they are 1) Inconsistent = Changing Rafale program, do not deliver budget as promised, 2) Inefficient = Unable to allocate enough resources to complete a program as intended, instead start a new one that will require more resources and lobbying while at the same time will not contribute as much as the original program, 3) Ineffective = Failed to deliver satisfactorily the budget requested by another ministry, which in turn will hamper the military strength of Indonesian military in the long run.
It is the financial dictator and her minions who are the source of the problem.
Rafale - F-15 - KF-21 are all already given green light politically by all of the suppliers, this is a non-issue. So why talk about this? Just continue with the program as planned, but the STAN Mafia and their ogre mother seem to have their own agenda to fulfill, which is definitely not to support the establishment of a robust military.
I think you overestimate the Wallet Witch, she ain't considering geopolitics and stuff, she only knows about money and money alone, she's just an overrated bendahara.
If people want a "politically neutral supplier" + "strong modern military", then go for France, get Rafale, SAMP-T, ships, armors, you name it, buy new in substantial numbers, and reform the military to accommodate contemporary tactics and technology. But no, the ogre wanted some second-hand stuff from some desert countries, without clear plan about them in the long run, "genius" indeed.
How about defense policy being dictated by other ministries? Sack the witch and reform Kemenkeu and such budget policy nuisance will become a non-issue
And stick to the original plan, with long-term logistics plan following the initial acquistion.
Jokowi era has been a partying time for financial robbers.Indeed. The best example is Garuda Indonesia shit show.
From debt of Rp 142,42 trillion down to Rp 16,67 trillion after PKPU. Just shows you how crazy the marked up interest rate of the original debt was.
Proposal PKPU Lolos, Garuda Bakal Lepas dari Tekanan Keuangan - Korporasi Katadata.co.id
Persetujuan proposal PKPU membuat Garuda Indonesia dapat menerima suntikan dana PMN senilai Rp 7,5 triliunkatadata.co.id
Did SMI approve it?When 08 brought UAE, Qatari and Japanese lenders who offer very low interest rate,
Had she approved it, we will witness a larger contract signing for French stuffs.Did SMI approve it?
I’m specifically pointing on the corruption in government loans arrangement. The amount of past era kickback combined is nothing compared to the merciless robbery in this administration. You have no ideaPfft. Just Jokowi era? You kidding me? Don't try to mislead me. This shit has been happening since Suharto era. I don't know about Sukarno era so I'll omitted it.
So she approved Doha?Had she approved it, we will witness a larger contract signing for French stuffs.
“France is trying to get Abu Dhabi to finance Jakarta's procurement of Rafale while the Indonesian government has turned to the more US-friendly Doha…”
https://www.intelligenceonline.com/...contest-between-rafale-and-f-16,109706648-art
So she approved Doha?
Maybe the Mirage deal will tell us something. UAE and Qatar represent different interest, which 08 is trying to accomodate both.So she approved Doha?
Ah yes. That one is a classic.*Bantingan is an appropriate word for this
"Bantingan kenyot"been happening since kenyot arc during kaskus era.
China: "We have strongest military in Asia, you shall bow before us!"Just imagining the potential of meme & ketar ketir shitty quality video that will be created out of it is enough to make me have wet dream at night- nay, for the whole day.
First, nobody - at least not me - turned a blind eye to the real cause of the whole situation. But then again, it's a proven fact that inefficiency, spooling of power to a few, heavy-handed and half-hearted measures, even to blatant ignorance to a real potential and brewing crisis, have always been the part of our bureaucracy.Nobody hurt me. But MANY hurt the future of our country. Why focus on the disagreeable statement from a random dude on the internet, but turn a blind eye to blatant mismanagement by a supposedly "infallible minister"? This is your country and also mine, and in this case, we can pinpoint which ministry and which minister messed up the fighter procurement policy. Basically, you guys should care, and self-criticize if one among you thinks SMI is beyond criticism.
Don't get personal in this discussion, as you can see I do not "attack" anyone here because I don't need to. It is perfectly fine to criticize a paid bureaucrat because 1. They are paid, 2. Entrusted with an office, 3. Therefore if they mess up it is definitely their fault to blame.
FoodSoldier contributed by pointing out what exactly is flawed in Kemenkeu's model which ends up complicating the acc for the budget which our MOD and Military desperately needed. Thanks a lot for that and this strengthens the case that Kemenkeu's meddling with our Defense establishment is harmful.
Even more extreme is that they can even divert a matter this crucial for alternatives that are in contradiction to the original plan by your own MOD. Wth Kemenkeu should make their own Dirjen Pertahanan or something, so much for a state within a state.
Man I am bureaucrat, I know how this stuff work and how pejabat think. I can tell you this is not a good precedent.
I concur.No need for hostility among members, we all have the same desire for Indonesia to have a good military.
Where is Hawk and sukhoi?
Agree, that the key point is to choose a super-priority program among many priority options. And right now while the defense is a priority there are more important ones while the available budget is limited. Indonesia is not the United States that can have a military budget of that size, even compared to several countries under it which are still larger.If I am not wrong there is a limit of how much foreign loan we can take (%? from GDP?).
MoF didn't led MoD by the nose and dictate what alutsista that we should buy. MoF not only need to handle foreign loan used for military equipment purchase but also for building infrastructure, factory, and we also have mega project of IKN etc. MoF can't allocate the capped foreign loan only for the sole purpose of obtaining military equipments, even the president won't allow that and that's why we usually buy stuff in several batch of small number, FFBNW, no weapons included etc. because the budget is limited.
If we take the complete deal of Rafale in a single step it might give too much burden for our APBN and thus we order in a small number first.
Should we call MoF as hindrance and sabotaging TNI modernization because of this? Should we focus on using all PLN (still within the allowed limit) solely on military equipments and abandon the others?
Even its possible that the $13.9 bil deal for F15EX will be split and we will order small number of F15EX at first, will it be MoF fault?
The military is a high priority but there is still other thing that also need to be allocated some budget, we need to look at the bigger perspective and not get too emotional just because its involve the military and also we our self is military enthusiast.
@Umigami maybe you can change the thread title to something else and not
Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)
Is "Indonesian Air Force (TNI-AU)" good enough?If I am not wrong there is a limit of how much foreign loan we can take (%? from GDP?).
MoF didn't led MoD by the nose and dictate what alutsista that we should buy. MoF not only need to handle foreign loan used for military equipment purchase but also for building infrastructure, factory, and we also have mega project of IKN etc. MoF can't allocate the capped foreign loan only for the sole purpose of obtaining military equipments, even the president won't allow that and that's why we usually buy stuff in several batch of small number, FFBNW, no weapons included etc. because the budget is limited.
If we take the complete deal of Rafale in a single step it might give too much burden for our APBN and thus we order in a small number first.
Should we call MoF as hindrance and sabotaging TNI modernization because of this? Should we focus on using all PLN (still within the allowed limit) solely on military equipments and abandon the others?
Even its possible that the $13.9 bil deal for F15EX will be split and we will order small number of F15EX at first, will it be MoF fault?
The military is a high priority but there is still other thing that also need to be allocated some budget, we need to look at the bigger perspective and not get too emotional just because its involve the military and also we our self is military enthusiast.
@Umigami maybe you can change the thread title to something else and not
Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)