Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Umigami]

2nd prototype first flight

 

[Umigami]

And now MoD said that 3.9 billions is fully for Rafale.

Kemenkeu Setujui Pinjaman Asing Rp 60,65 Triliun untuk Pembelian Jet Rafale |Republika Online

Kemenhan meneken perjanjian dengan Dassault untuk membeli 42 jet Rafale.

m.republika.co.id

Let's wait and see

 

[Lordimperator]

The Brits signed a $1.98 billion deal to purchase five E-7 Wedgetails in 2019.

So it's about $400m per jet.

We pay 1.1 billion for 6 Rafales and there is some gossip 12 ex-Qatari Mirage cost us 770 million.
this is just My "cocoklogi" :

MOney for (presumably) AEW&C = 3.9 billion - 2.2 billion (12 Rafale) - 0.77 billion (Mirage) = around 930 million

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554550098553552896

Rumour regarding AEW back then.

 

[Parry Brima]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554550098553552896

Rumour regarding AEW back then.

To summarize the options:

- E-7 Wedgetails $400 mil (2019 Brits contract)
- GlobalEye $350 mil (2022 Swedish contract, using Bombardier Global 6000)
- Gulfstream G550 CAEW $250 mil (2020 DSCA for Italy, all AEWC systems provided by Israel)
- E-2D Advanced Hawkeye $120 mil (2021 French contract)
- Embraer E-99, can't find recent contract.

With allegedly $800 mil budget, do you want two Wedgetails, two GlobalEyes, three Gulfstreams, or seven Advanced Hawkeyes?

 

[Lordimperator]

To summarize the options:

- E-7 Wedgetails $400 mil (2019 Brits contract)
- GlobalEye $350 mil (2022 Swedish contract, using Bombardier Global 6000)
- Gulfstream G550 CAEW $250 mil (2020 DSCA for Italy, all AEWC systems provided by Israel)
- E-2D Advanced Hawkeye $120 mil (2021 French contract)
- Embraer E-99, can't find recent contract.

With allegedly $800 mil budget, do you want two Wedgetails, two GlobalEyes, three Gulfstreams, or seven Advanced Hawkeyes?

E7 or G550 would be nice

 

[rai456]

To summarize the options:

- E-7 Wedgetails $400 mil (2019 Brits contract)
- GlobalEye $350 mil (2022 Swedish contract, using Bombardier Global 6000)
- Gulfstream G550 CAEW $250 mil (2020 DSCA for Italy, all AEWC systems provided by Israel)
- E-2D Advanced Hawkeye $120 mil (2021 French contract)
- Embraer E-99, can't find recent contract.

With allegedly $800 mil budget, do you want two Wedgetails, two GlobalEyes, three Gulfstreams, or seven Advanced Hawkeyes?

The Wedgetails should be the most capable. The G550 is good as well but its small size means that it is limited in some areas compared to the E-7.

 

[Lordimperator]

The G550 is good as well but its small size means that it is limited in some areas compared to the E-7.

G550 9 hours vs E7 10 hours.

 

[rai456]

G550 9 hours vs E7 10 hours.

The E7 has supposedly done missions in Iraq and Syria for over 17 hrs. Also having more operators can be a big advantage for managing an airspace.
Smaller plane means less operators, more crew workload and crew fatigue, less processing power(less space for server racks) and possibly less capable rader due to size and power consumption limits (depending on technology).

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554550098553552896

Rumour regarding AEW back then.

To summarize the options:

- E-7 Wedgetails $400 mil (2019 Brits contract)
- GlobalEye $350 mil (2022 Swedish contract, using Bombardier Global 6000)
- Gulfstream G550 CAEW $250 mil (2020 DSCA for Italy, all AEWC systems provided by Israel)
- E-2D Advanced Hawkeye $120 mil (2021 French contract)
- Embraer E-99, can't find recent contract.

With allegedly $800 mil budget, do you want two Wedgetails, two GlobalEyes, three Gulfstreams, or seven Advanced Hawkeyes?

The E7 has supposedly done missions in Iraq and Syria for over 17 hrs. Also having more operators can be a big advantage for managing an airspace.
Smaller plane means less operators, more crew workload and crew fatigue, less processing power(less space for server racks) and possibly less capable rader due to size and power consumption limits (depending on technology).

Apparently RAF E7 use second hand airframe. So now the question are there available airframe with good remaining flight hours available today?

 

[Lordimperator]

The E7 has supposedly done missions in Iraq and Syria for over 17 hrs. Also having more operators can be a big advantage for managing an airspace.
Smaller plane means less operators, more crew workload and crew fatigue, less processing power(less space for server racks) and possibly less capable rader due to size and power consumption limits (depending on technology).

G550 user : Israel, USN, Singapore, Italy.
E7: Turkiye, British, Australia, SoKor.
E7 wedgetail 17 hrs with AAR or not?

 

[Gary]

To summarize the options:

- E-7 Wedgetails $400 mil (2019 Brits contract)
- GlobalEye $350 mil (2022 Swedish contract, using Bombardier Global 6000)
- Gulfstream G550 CAEW $250 mil (2020 DSCA for Italy, all AEWC systems provided by Israel)
- E-2D Advanced Hawkeye $120 mil (2021 French contract)
- Embraer E-99, can't find recent contract.

With allegedly $800 mil budget, do you want two Wedgetails, two GlobalEyes, three Gulfstreams, or seven Advanced Hawkeyes?

Seven advanced hawkeye ftw

 

[Umigami]

Seven advanced hawkeye ftw

But isn't it kind of... you know... lackluster

 

[Gary]

But isn't it kind of... you know... lackluster

elaborate ?

 

[Umigami]

Limited flight time and radar coverage (compared to its competitors)

 

[Gary]

Limited flight time and radar coverage (compared to its competitors)

Not that significant if you have more than twice the number of airframe compared to the competitors . The AN/APY-9 is capable of detecting fighter sized target as far as 555km away and loiter time of 7 hours (which is decent btw).

There's also the + of having tail hook just in case it need to land on our many short airfield.

 

[Umigami]

W

Not that significant if you have more than twice the number of airframe compared to the competitors . The AN/APY-9 is capable of detecting fighter sized target as far as 555km away and loiter time of 7 hours (which is decent btw).

There's also the + of having tail hook just in case it need to land on our many short airfield.

Still for right now the strongest contender are still Boeing and Saab. Never heard other than them give us their offer.

 

[FPXAllen]

Re: Early warning aircraft.

Although I can understand the appeal of the E7 and other, similarly expensive options, I tend to agree with @AlphaMike reasoning. IMHO, we need planes with good radar coverage and/or decent performance in more numbers rather than the ones with better radar and/or performance that we can't afford to buy more than two.

Having more EW aircraft on patrol can provide more data not to mention that there are backups that are still available on their base(s) for any contingency.

Besides, if we talk about the technological level of the airframe, Hawkeye is still within our scope if we want to - say - build the EW version of CN-235 someday.

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594267080962224128

 

[Gary]

Re: Early warning aircraft.

Although I can understand the appeal of the E7 and other, similarly expensive options, I tend to agree with @AlphaMike reasoning. IMHO, we need planes with good radar coverage and/or decent performance in more numbers rather than the ones with better radar and/or performance that we can't afford to buy more than two.

Having more EW aircraft on patrol can provide more data not to mention that there are backups that are still available on their base(s) for any contingency.

Besides, if we talk about the technological level of the airframe, Hawkeye is still within our scope if we want to - say - build the EW version of CN-235 someday.

I kid you not. Let's say we finally got our 2 brand new E-7 wedgetail which has a 50km radar advantage over an E-2D. Once conflict start, the enemy will go after those assets. Lose just ONE and the air force loses HALF its early warning capabilities, half its eyes and ears are blinded. Do you think those air force generals would want to lose their badge by losing the other half ? Iraq goes this way with the Adnan AWACS in Desert Storm. Basically the platform is seen as too expensive and precious, no one wants to risk losing one.

But this is Indonesia, so we're probably going with 2 highly advanced AEWC which has little advantage over less sexy but more urgently needed option, just like how we go with Rafale instead of F-16V.

 

[Umigami]

Re: Early warning aircraft.

Although I can understand the appeal of the E7 and other, similarly expensive options, I tend to agree with @AlphaMike reasoning. IMHO, we need planes with good radar coverage and/or decent performance in more numbers rather than the ones with better radar and/or performance that we can't afford to buy more than two.

Having more EW aircraft on patrol can provide more data not to mention that there are backups that are still available on their base(s) for any contingency.

Besides, if we talk about the technological level of the airframe, Hawkeye is still within our scope if we want to - say - build the EW version of CN-235 someday.

I kid you not. Let's say we finally got our 2 brand new E-7 wedgetail which has a 50km radar advantage over an E-2D. Once conflict start, the enemy will go after those assets. Lose just ONE and the air force loses HALF its early warning capabilities, half its eyes and ears are blinded. Do you think those air force generals would want to lose their badge by losing the other half ? Iraq goes this way with the Adnan AWACS in Desert Storm. Basically the platform is seen as too expensive and precious, no one wants to risk losing one.

But this is Indonesia, so we're probably going with 2 highly advanced AEWC which has little advantage over less sexy but more urgently needed option, just like how we go with Rafale instead of F-16V.

Alright then. So did Northrop or LM (its radar supplier) ever offer their AEW product to us?
(Yeah back in the 80s or 90s, but now?)

As far as I know currently only Boeing and SAAB (and maybe Airbus) that put their offer.