Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Madokafc]

obviously personal opinion here, however if we start to think about our military's habit of not buying stuff in bulk (esp, weapons, munitions), what difference will F-15 EX make during wartime or heightened situation, if we can only sortie them out with minimum load out (considering our inability to fit all of their hard points with the necessary weaponry, due to the rationale as sets out in the preceding sentence.

Either we got Rafale or F15 EX one thing is sure, their must got Mk82

 

[Umigami]

obviously personal opinion here, however if we start to think about our military's habit of not buying stuff in bulk (esp, weapons, munitions), what difference will F-15 EX make during wartime or heightened situation, if we can only sortie them out with minimum load out (considering our inability to fit all of their hard points with the necessary weaponry, due to the rationale as sets out in the preceding sentence.

We still got its superior range, superior censor and radar, etc.

And if the situation heathen up and worsen, I'm sure the power of kepepet wil emerged, means more spending on defence, more bomb and munition, etc.

 

[Umigami]

Either we got Rafale or F15 EX one thing is sure, their must got Mk82

There is no way we can operate 2-3 skadron worth of F15, right?

No medium fighter (f16 or f18) included from US proposal?

 

[trishna_amrta]

Will Indonesia make a firm call soon in first half of this year?

Most likely in the 2Q of this year. But I won't read too much out of it. In the most likely case there will be some big ticket articles that will be dragged all the way to 2Q 2022

 

[GraveDigger388]

HAH!!

Round and round we go..

 

[Umigami]

This locally made (assembly) fighter idea surfacing more and more lately

Eks KSAU: Indonesia Memungkinkan Produksi Pesawat Tempur Sendiri, tapi..

Kemandirian memproduksi pesawat tempur sangat dibutuhkan guna menjawab tantangan pertahanan dan keamanan udara dalam negeri yang kian dinamis.

amp.kompas.com

2002 chief of staf of Indonesian Air Force talk about posibility of locally made fighter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357775752251408384

 

[Chestnut]

(Admin, integrate Instagram to this website please)
View attachment 13537
Oh boy...
Can someone please give us some bocoran?

The only funny thing about this comment is the idea that we would still be able to operate the Flanker if we went with the Rafale and NOT the F-15, even though we have more common parts and weapons with the F-15 instead of the Rafale lol.

 

[Chestnut]

R

For In 2020 Indonesia receive US$14M FMS.

You don't read the news?

Recieveing $14M in Foreign Military Sales means we bought $14M worth of weapons from the US.

 

[schuimpjes]

In FY 2020, Indonesia received $14 million in Foreign Military Financing and more than $2.3 million in International Military Education and Training funds. In FY 2020, The Department of Defense provided Indonesia with $22.6 million in security assistance under Section 333. Indonesia is also eligible to receive assistance under Section 1263, known as the Indo-Pacific Maritime Security Initiative, which seeks to strengthen naval and coast guard maritime security and maritime domain awareness capacity in the region. The Department of Defense has also provided Indonesia with more than $5 million in defense institutional capacity building support from FY 2016 through FY 2020. These services have focused on human capital improvements for strategic planning, budgeting, sustainment, and maritime security

@Agent_G @Chestnut
Not FMS btw, but Foreign Military Financing, don't know is that same with FMS or not.

And about that "$2.3 million in International Military Education and Training funds," I think one of it was about Army training in Fort Polk idk.

"The Department of Defense provided Indonesia with $22.6 million in security assistance under Section 333". Scan Eagles and Radar that US gave to us? Idk how much were the US spent for the Scan Eagles and Radar that they gave to us. Or maybe different things, sadly that report was put the things "not-itemized". "Auditors" doesn't like that report wkwkwk.

 

[Umigami]

The only funny thing about this comment is the idea that we would still be able to operate the Flanker if we went with the Rafale and NOT the F-15, even though we have more common parts and weapons with the F-15 instead of the Rafale lol.

PW need to take sometimes to certified F100 for F15ex, I don't think we want to wait.

If we choose super eagle, most likely we'll use F110. That's mean less commonality.

 

[Parry Brima]

The only funny thing about this comment is the idea that we would still be able to operate the Flanker if we went with the Rafale and NOT the F-15, even though we have more common parts and weapons with the F-15 instead of the Rafale lol.

I'm only guessing here, but I think what he meant was probably the operating cost per flight hours (CPFH).

The CPFH of these 3 fighters are :
- Flankers : $35,000
- F-15EX : $29,000
- Rafale : $16,500

So the combination of :
- Flankers + F-15EX : $64,000
- Flankers + Rafale : $51,500
we save $12,500 by opting the latter one.

Personally, I don't really care much about CPFH in this case. One of the huge contributors of CPFH is the fuel cost especially for twin engine fighters, and we pay the fuel cost with IDR not USD as we buy the fuel from Pertamina. So it's basically free fuel for everybody

Besides, we were asking about F-35 which has CPFH of $35,000. Surely it means we are 100% financially ready to pay the operating cost for all the options including F-15EX, F-18, Rafale, and Typhoon.

 

[Umigami]

I'm only guessing here, but I think what he meant was probably the operating cost per flight hours (CPFH).

The CPFH of these 3 fighters are :
- Flankers : $35,000
- F-15EX : $29,000
- Rafale : $16,500

So the combination of :
- Flankers + F-15EX : $64,000
- Flankers + Rafale : $51,500
we save $12,500 by opting the latter one.

Personally, I don't really care much about CPFH in this case. One of the huge contributors of CPFH is the fuel cost especially for twin engine fighters, and we pay the fuel cost with IDR not USD as we buy the fuel from Pertamina. So it's basically free fuel for everybody

Besides, we were asking about F-35 which has CPFH of $35,000. Surely it means we are 100% financially ready to pay the operating cost for all the options including F-15EX, F-18, Rafale, and Typhoon.

but estimation of rafale we gonna buy is 30+
(I'm still thinking F15 is a heavy fighter that we'll never be a able to operate in big number, We have to buy another jet as medium fighter too)

 

[Ravager]

but estimation of rafale we gonna buy is 30+
(I'm still thinking F15 is a heavy fighter that we'll never be a able to operate in big number, We have to buy another jet as medium fighter too)

In essence nothing is wrong with your line of thingking hence why we need F 16 as a workhorse for CAP . F 15 was the equvalent of SU class in our inventory ( albeit wiht a superior sensor and techs ) and Rafales are blurring the line ... While medium in size ( debatable i know ) yet they come in the superior equipment and tech sensor and fill the role of heavy hitter too ... PALUGADA in every sense of the words .

 

[Parry Brima]

but estimation of rafale we gonna buy is 30+
(I'm still thinking F15 is a heavy fighter that we'll never be a able to operate in big number, We have to buy another jet as medium fighter too)

Considering that we have a huge ambition to buy 100 fighters, I wouldn't be surprised if we buy 30+ F-15 as well. I imagine getting foreign loan approval via FMS would be a bit easier & faster than any loan from Europe/France.

 

[NEKO]

Considering that we have a huge ambition to buy 100 fighters, I wouldn't be surprised if we buy 30+ F-15 as well. I imagine getting foreign loan approval via FMS would be a bit easier & faster than any loan from Europe/France.

Does KFX already included?

 

[Gary]

Will Indonesia make a firm call soon in first half of this year?

Take it with a grain of salt, the Rafale deal was supposed to be signed late December last year. Nothing happened since then.

 

[Umigami]

How is the posibility of us to take both?

 

[Gundala]

How is the posibility of us to take both?

I think it would end up in how much local work we are going to get for the deal. And by saying that the chance of getting decent local work might be slim if we purchase both in small quantity numbers. So yeah, small chance to get them both.

India has been offered to have licensed for Rafale engine linked to their 100+ purchase program. Boeing has offered local assembly for the same program. If we go with only a squadron each of the models we might only get "Maintenance" as the from of ToT

Calculating the infrastructure cost to get 2 new models at the same time including training, etc, we might end up getting dozen each maybe less. Right now we need numbers so I think going with only 1 model might benefit us more either Rafale of EX.

One thing we have to be sure if we decided to go with EX is doing the maintenance program using DCS. This Eagle is not cheap to maintain, if we rely only with APBN/yearly budgeting then we might be looking to have under 50% readyness.

 

[Umigami]

I'll take rafale license for 100+ unit and buy 1-2 skadron worth of EX (no need for locally build) if I am 08 pembisik.

Just concentrate with one platform for locally build and again we don't need huge number of heavy fighter.

 

[Madokafc]

If it's up to me

I would trying to get around 64 of Rafale as main stay multi roles fighter combined them with around 64 F 18 block 3 (and 16 to 24 of them is growler variant) as high end armada and to have around 128 F16 legacy from various sources supported by at least 64-72 T50 i GE (with most of them serve as LIFT and light fighter) as low end armada of fighter. That's would set Indonesian Air Force need for at least two decades ahead. Thus the rest Indonesia only need to fill the supporting assets like MRTT, Heavy lifter cargo above Hercules class , AWACS, AEW or ELINT aircraft, Ground radar interception, SAM and satellite support

Meanwhile Navy should be prioritized to get Poseidon P8 and C130 too to support their movements and logistic as P8 is logistic demanding platform as the other thing is to get many light lifter such as CN212 and N219.

Coast Guard should get assets like N219 and Beechcraft King Air MPA variant through US aid initiative like what they offered to Philippines