Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359089597775441921

 

[Ravager]

If it's up to me

I would trying to get around 64 of Rafale as main stay multi roles fighter combined them with around 64 F 18 block 3 (and 16 to 24 of them is growler variant) as high end armada and to have around 128 F16 legacy from various sources supported by at least 64-72 T50 i GE (with most of them serve as LIFT and light fighter) as low end armada of fighter. That's would set Indonesian Air Force need for at least two decades ahead. Thus the rest Indonesia only need to fill the supporting assets like MRTT, Heavy lifter cargo above Hercules class , AWACS, AEW or ELINT aircraft, Ground radar interception, SAM and satellite support

Meanwhile Navy should be prioritized to get Poseidon P8 and C130 too to support their movements and logistic as P8 is logistic demanding platform as the other thing is to get many light lifter such as CN212 and N219.

Coast Guard should get assets like N219 and Beechcraft King Air MPA variant through US aid initiative like what they offered to Philippines

While i support and see a lot of merit in these wishlist . Too bad in these turbulence times this " normal wishlist " were allready in the borderline of wet dreams indonesian style ...

 

[Mandala]

Negotiations under way with Indonesia over fighter jet project: official

By Yonhap

Published : Feb 9, 2021 - 14:58
Updated : Feb 9, 2021 - 14:58

Workers of Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) assemble the first prototype of South Korea's indigenous fighter jet KF-X at its plant in the southeastern city of Sacheon on Jan. 22, 2021, in this photo provided by KAI. The prototype will be unveiled in the first half of this year. (Korea Aerospace Industries)


South Korea is in talks with Indonesia about a joint project to develop a next-generation fighter jet, the head of the arms procurement agency said Tuesday, amid speculation that the Southeast Asian nation wants to quit the project.

Indonesia agreed to partner in South Korea's KF-X project aimed at developing a new fighter jet by 2026, and promised to shoulder 20 percent of the total development cost of 8.8 trillion won ($7.3 billion), or about 1.7 trillion won.

But Indonesia stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won, with around 600 billion won overdue.

"We are in the process of sounding out each other's position," Kang Eun-ho, chief of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, said during a press briefing. "We will elaborate in detail when the time is right."

Indonesia's initial goal was to procure aircraft for its air force and advance the country's aerospace industry through the partnership but foreign media have been reporting that the Southeast Asian nation is now pushing to sign a deal with France to purchase new fighter jets.

South Korea has been working on the KF-X project since 2015 to develop a homegrown cutting-edge fighter aircraft to replace the Air Force's aging fleet of F-4 and F-5 jets.

In September last year, Korea Aerospace Industries Co. got down to the final assembly of a prototype that is expected to be made public by April.

When the development is complete, 40 units are planned to be delivered to the Air Force by 2028 and another 80 units by 2032, officials said.

Read more: http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20210209000905

 

[NEKO]

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

If we plan to buy lots of rafale, TOT that i want the most is the engine.

 

[Parry Brima]

There's another way to calculate the operational cost per hour that can give us clearer picture about how much total we have to spend per aircraft, which is to include the price of the asset itself. So it's some sort of amortized cost of the assets.

For example the cost of Rafale is about $200 mil (India's deal is about $220 mil). The service life is about 10,000 flight hours. Which means we have to pay about $20,000 per hour.

The CPFH of Rafale is $16,500. So the total we have to pay for each aircraft per hour is : $16,500 + $20,000 = $36,500.

Now let's compare it with F-15EX. The price is about $150 mil (refer to USAF deal, $22.89 bil for 144 jets). The service life is 20,000 hours. Which means we have to pay about $7500 per hour.

The CPFH of F-15EX is $29,000. So the total we have to pay for each aircraft per hour is : $29,000 + $7500 = $36,500.

In the end the total cost per hour (CPFH + amortized cost of the asset) is the same. Both Rafale and F-15EX will cost us $36,500 per hour.

 

[Chestnut]

There's another way to calculate the operational cost per hour that can give us clearer picture about how much total we have to spend per aircraft, which is to include the price of the asset itself. So it's some sort of amortized cost of the assets.

For example the cost of Rafale is about $200 mil (India's deal is about $220 mil). The service life is about 10,000 flight hours. Which means we have to pay about $20,000 per hour.

The CPFH of Rafale is $16,500. So the total we have to pay for each aircraft per hour is : $16,500 + $20,000 = $36,500.

Now let's compare it with F-15EX. The price is about $150 mil (refer to USAF deal, $22.89 bil for 144 jets). The service life is 20,000 hours. Which means we have to pay about $7500 per hour.

The CPFH of F-15EX is $29,000. So the total we have to pay for each aircraft per hour is : $29,000 + $7500 = $36,500.

In the end the total cost per hour (CPFH + amortized cost of the asset) is the same. Both Rafale and F-15EX will cost us $36,500 per hour.

Add the fact that the F-15EX share common parts, weapons, and engines as the F-16; You'd see the $36,500 drop even lower.

 

[Umigami]

Add the fact that the F-15EX share common parts, weapons, and engines as the F-16; You'd see the $36,500 drop even lower.

I'm not sure about that one.

 

[Chestnut]

I'm not sure about that one.

They actually do share engines, it's one of the strong points of the F-16/15 combo.

 

[Umigami]

They actually do share engines, it's one of the strong points of the F-16/15 combo.

for now, GE F110 is the only engine certified for EX.
PW is working on it, but we don't know when F100 229 ready.

I don't think 08 want to wait.

 

[Chestnut]

for now, GE F110 is the only engine certified for EX.
PW is working on it, but we don't know when F100 229 ready.

I don't think 08 want to wait.

Air Force Opens Up F-15EX Engine Award for Competition | Air & Space Forces Magazine

USAF will have companies compete to provide engines for the new F-15EX, moving way from its original plan to award the work sole-source to GE Aviation.

www.airforcemag.com

"To compete, Pratt would have to integrate its F100 engine with the F-15EX’s digital, fly-by-wire flight control system. The solicitation said that while integration could take place “concurrently” with production, the engine would have to be certified for the aircraft before delivery."

It's still a huge possibility, also to consider is the fact that the F-15E fleet is largely powered by the F-100. Plus, Boeing is a LOT more flexible when it comes to tailoring to user requirements over LM.

 

[NEKO]

What kind of ToT that we can expect from buying US made jet?

 

[Nilgiri]

There's another way to calculate the operational cost per hour that can give us clearer picture about how much total we have to spend per aircraft, which is to include the price of the asset itself. So it's some sort of amortized cost of the assets.

For example the cost of Rafale is about $200 mil (India's deal is about $220 mil). The service life is about 10,000 flight hours. Which means we have to pay about $20,000 per hour.

The CPFH of Rafale is $16,500. So the total we have to pay for each aircraft per hour is : $16,500 + $20,000 = $36,500.

Now let's compare it with F-15EX. The price is about $150 mil (refer to USAF deal, $22.89 bil for 144 jets). The service life is 20,000 hours. Which means we have to pay about $7500 per hour.

The CPFH of F-15EX is $29,000. So the total we have to pay for each aircraft per hour is : $29,000 + $7500 = $36,500.

In the end the total cost per hour (CPFH + amortized cost of the asset) is the same. Both Rafale and F-15EX will cost us $36,500 per hour.

@Vergennes may be able to add to this if he knows anything more.

TBH (IMO), indonesia can likely get it lot cheaper than 200 million per LCC unit if it doesnt go for same level of offsets requirement of India (and also India's low economy of scale so far with just 36..that will only get amortised/deducted w.r.t sunk in capex in further tranche(s) if it happens).

There is lot of re-investment going into Indian companies from the offsets of the rafale (36) deal w.r.t even unrelated a/c platforms like the falcon:

Inside the Reliance-Dassault factory that's making Falcon 2000 jets in Nagpur

The work continues nearly 1,000 km from India's national capital where this facility is not seen amicably in one of India's most vitiated political atmospheres.

www.businesstoday.in

This one has been exclusively moved to Indian production for example...for say domestic french military use:

French Navy to receive new eyes in the sky from Dassault

The French Ministry of the Armed Forces has ordered from Dassault Aviation seven maritime surveillance and intervention planes for the French Navy, with an option for five others to be confirmed in 2025. The order, valued at €1.3 billion, will be a breath of fresh air for the French manufacturer...

defencehub.live

So all this added to the per unit 36 cost...given the offset re-investments included in this (both in rafale, rafale sub-systems like radar and non-rafale stuff altogether)...that would not appear in a different deal.

If Indonesia does a different kind of deal with France (say w.r.t offsets and economy of scale ratio if you go for lot more than 36), it can get it cheaper.

Depending how things go in UAE w.r.t Biden F-35 "review" stuff...they could look at rafale again and it will be interesting what price per unit will be there depending on scale for reference.

BTW do you have links for the 10k total available flight hours of rafale versus 20k for F-15 EX? This is a good point you have made in general to look at bigger picture of LCC and CPFH.

Esp given Weapons package capability/cost and MRO/MTBO reliability is roughly the same for the top tier western platforms (you got to always account for these extra capability and downtime "costs" for Russian esp given their engines after ~1000 hours on them).

 

[Parry Brima]

BTW do you have links for the 10k total available flight hours of rafale versus 20k for F-15 EX? This is a good point you have made in general to look at bigger picture of LCC and CPFH.

For the Rafale I only used general number that most fighters are designed to have about 8000 - 10,000 flight hours. Only recently that the latest variant of F-16 (Viper) is expected to have 12,000 flight hours.

While for F-15EX, the claim that it has 20,000 flight hours was coming from Maj. Gen. David A. Krumm, USAF’s Director of Strategic Plans and Requirements (link below).

F-15EX: Careful What You Don't Ask For | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Be careful what you don’t wish for... New F-15s, T-X, and the cost of ownership....

www.airforcemag.com

 

[trishna_amrta]

The CPFH of Rafale is $16,500. So the total we have to pay for each aircraft per hour is : $16,500 + $20,000 = $36,500.

Now let's compare it with F-15EX. The price is about $150 mil (refer to USAF deal, $22.89 bil for 144 jets). The service life is 20,000 hours. Which means we have to pay about $7500 per hour.

The CPFH of F-15EX is $29,000. So the total we have to pay for each aircraft per hour is : $29,000 + $7500 = $36,500.

In the end the total cost per hour (CPFH + amortized cost of the asset) is the same. Both Rafale and F-15EX will cost us $36,500 per hour.

Where does that Rafale $16.500 CPFH came? (which country) Keep in mind that CPFH also consist of fuel & manpower. And those 2 aspects are radically different for each country.

 

[Parry Brima]

Where does that Rafale $16.500 CPFH came? (which country) Keep in mind that CPFH also consist of fuel & manpower. And those 2 aspects are radically different for each country.

It's from the study conducted by Edward Hunt, Senior Consultant at IHS Jane’s Aerospace and Defense Consulting.

Here's the link, complete with CPFH data for Gripen, F-16, Super Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon and the F-35.

Gripen operational cost lowest of all western fighters: Jane’s

The study conducted by IHS Jane's Aerospace and Defense Consulting, compared the operational costs of the Gripen, Lockheed Martin F-16, Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, Dassault’s Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and the F-35 aircraft.

stratpost.com

 

[Chestnut]

What kind of ToT that we can expect from buying US made jet?

Spare part production, we already produce certain parts for our current F-16 fleet. Buying more US jets would just increase spare part production, which IMO is worth more than local assembly since it would be worth A LOT more in the long run.

 

[kooppyyy]

F-15 is indeed the most sensible choice from commonality requirements, but that assuming the requirements for commonality is prioritize or even actually required at all (looking at the rest of our armed forces inventories, this one is looking likely). Rafale is the compromise. Thus, I can understand why it is an attractive option both for end-user (TNI-AU) and Kemenhan, because it satisfies the two presume main criteria set by the decision maker, which are: NATO spec and diversification.

 

[R4duga]

https://tni-au.mil.id/kasau-menerima-kunjungan-dari-head-sales-airbus-military/

PERERAT KERJASAMA INDUSTRI KEDIRGANTARAAN, PRESDIR AIRBUS TEMUI KASAU​

Oleh Dispen 11 Feb 2021​

PERERAT KERJASAMA INDUSTRI KEDIRGANTARAAN, PRESDIR AIRBUS TEMUI KASAU
Kasau Marsekal TNI Fadjar Prasetyo, S.E., M.P.P., menerima kunjungan Presiden Direktur (Presdir) Airbus Indonesia, Dani Andriananta di Mabesau Cilangkap, Jakarta Timur, Kamis (11/2/2021).

Dalam Pertemuan yang berlangsung hangat dan akrab tersebut, Kasau mengucapkan selamat kepada Dani Andriananta sebagai Presiden Direktur Airbus Indonesia yang baru.

Kasau berharap ke depan hubungan yang telah terjalin dengan baik selama ini, dapat lebih ditingkatkan, dengan mendapatkan dukungan penuh dari Airbus Indonesia.

Pada kesempatan yang sama, Presdir Airbus Indonesia mengucapkan terima kasih atas sambutan yang diberikan TNI AU dan akan terus berkomitmen mendukung upaya modernisasi Alutsista TNI AU.

Turut mendampingi Kasau Asrena Kasau Marsda TNI Andyawan Martono dan Kadisaeroau Marsma TNI Eddy Supriyono. Sementara Presdir Airbus di dampingi Account Manager Eka M.Ilham dan Asisten Direktur Airbus Indonesia Klemens Davevyan.​

 

[Madokafc]

Those MRTT, there is lot of newly built aircraft waiting for disposed caused by slumped business cause of Covid19 by many airline including A330 series, this good opportunity to get them cheap and refurbished them into MRTT.

 

[R4duga]

Those MRTT, there is lot of newly built aircraft waiting for disposed caused by slumped business cause of Covid19 by many airline including A330 series, this good opportunity to get them cheap and refurbished them into MRTT.

i wonder if we manage to secure deal with the A330 MRTT from airline stock , is there a possibility to upgrade the passenger variants into freighter variants , that'd be a plus point for OMSP .