Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359851711599288326

 

[Madokafc]

i wonder if we manage to secure deal with the A330 MRTT from airline stock , is there a possibility to upgrade the passenger variants into freighter variants , that'd be a plus point for OMSP .

View attachment 13957

There is case with A330 series 200 especially ex Qantas airways converted into MRTT

Qantas to return two CIT A330s by end-2015 for MRTT conversion

Qantas Airways will return two Airbus A330-200 aircraft to CIT Aerospace by the end of the year, pending their conversion to multi-role tanker transports (MRTT) for the Royal Australian Air Force.

www.flightglobal.com

In case Garuda Indonesia operated at least 7 A330 series 200, Government can arrange the transfer of equipment. Garuda Indonesia need to streamlined their fleets for operational efficiency efforts, and they need more funds for operational costs there is also question about pilots and crew units in which many had been laid off actually this kind of scenario Will be very interesting today as Win Win solution for many stakeholder.

 

[JATOSINT]

There is case with A330 series 200 especially ex Qantas airways converted into MRTT

Qantas to return two CIT A330s by end-2015 for MRTT conversion

Qantas Airways will return two Airbus A330-200 aircraft to CIT Aerospace by the end of the year, pending their conversion to multi-role tanker transports (MRTT) for the Royal Australian Air Force.

www.flightglobal.com

In case Garuda Indonesia operated at least 7 A330 series 200, Government can arrange the transfer of equipment. Garuda Indonesia need to streamlined their fleets for operational efficiency efforts, and they need more funds for operational costs there is also question about pilots and crew units in which many had been laid off actually this kind of scenario Will be very interesting today as Win Win solution for many stakeholder.

Yes, totally agree, we must able to exploit the current decline in civilian aircraft production/order

 

[Test7]

i wonder if we manage to secure deal with the A330 MRTT from airline stock , is there a possibility to upgrade the passenger variants into freighter variants , that'd be a plus point for OMSP .

Negotiations are underway for the transfer of 9 Airbus A330s in the THY Fleet to the Turkish Air Force.

Transfer of THY's Airbus A330s to the TAF

According to Tolga Özbek: negotiations are underway for the transfer of 9 Airbus A330s in the THY Fleet to the Turkish Air Force. If this plan realized, A330s will undergo maintenance and modification at Kayseri Air Supply Maintenance Center Command. The goal is to make the necessary...

defencehub.live

 

[Madokafc]

Just as i said before, one need to be patient enough

Dassault team met with Ditjen Pothan Indonesia MoD

Seems they are now at technical level detail

 

[Caksakerah]

Just as i said before, one need to be patient enough

Dassault team met with Ditjen Pothan Indonesia MoD View attachment 13985 View attachment 13986 View attachment 13987

Seems they are now at technical level detail

Tim Dassault datangi Kemhan untuk proses akuisisi jet tempur Rafale

Tim dari pabrik Dassault Aviation, Perancis mendatangi Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia (Kemhan) di Jakarta untuk merumuskan

www.airspace-review.com

And there will be some offset too. Great!

 

[kooppyyy]

There is case with A330 series 200 especially ex Qantas airways converted into MRTT

Qantas to return two CIT A330s by end-2015 for MRTT conversion

Qantas Airways will return two Airbus A330-200 aircraft to CIT Aerospace by the end of the year, pending their conversion to multi-role tanker transports (MRTT) for the Royal Australian Air Force.

www.flightglobal.com

In case Garuda Indonesia operated at least 7 A330 series 200, Government can arrange the transfer of equipment. Garuda Indonesia need to streamlined their fleets for operational efficiency efforts, and they need more funds for operational costs there is also question about pilots and crew units in which many had been laid off actually this kind of scenario Will be very interesting today as Win Win solution for many stakeholder.

Yes, totally agree, we must able to exploit the current decline in civilian aircraft production/order

We definitely need to take advantage of the decline of air travel with a lot of airlines now trimming down their fleets. Let's not forget the RAF also opted for 2nd hand airframe for their E-7 AEW&C platform.

RAF to get second-hand jets as part of Wedgetail buy

Two of the UK's five on-order Boeing E-7 Wedgetail airborne early warning and control aircraft will be converted commercial airliners, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Gary]

Ummm, couldn't we use hypothetical Garuda Airbus fleet for our AEW&C ?

Should be able to loiter longer in the air than let's say a 737 NG or A320 (CEO and NEO) variant.

 

[Madokafc]

Ummm, couldn't we use hypothetical Garuda Airbus fleet for our AEW&C ?

Should be able to loiter longer in the air than let's say a 737 NG or A320 (CEO and NEO) variant.

There is many options nowadays, in current pandemic, even to refurbished Boeing or Airbus aircraft into MPA/MSA, AEW and ELINT aircraft very is doable

 

[Gary]

There is many options nowadays, in current pandemic, even to refurbished Boeing or Airbus aircraft into MPA/MSA, AEW and ELINT aircraft very is doable

I hope they make it into a single package of ELINT, AEW like the cancelled US E-10 M2CA program.

Or maybe in the future a flying drone command center to increase situational awareness.

 

[kooppyyy]

Ummm, couldn't we use hypothetical Garuda Airbus fleet for our AEW&C ?

Should be able to loiter longer in the air than let's say a 737 NG or A320 (CEO and NEO) variant.

You definitely can. It just depends on how much money Kemenhan willing to fork out for it. As I'm sure you know, integrating a system into a platform isn't exactly like installing a bike rack, especially if it's the platform is alien to the system. It will require some development and more extensive testing that will end up costing more money.

I hope they make it into a single package of ELINT, AEW like the cancelled us E-10 M2CA program.

Or maybe in the future a flying drone command center to increase situational awareness.

While that sounds ideal, need to bear in mind those two tasks are resources intensive, especially in terms of power. That's why most countries choose to develop a specialized platform for those two tasks.

 

[Gary]

You definitely can. It just depends on how much money Kemenhan willing to fork out for it. As I'm sure you know, integrating a system into a platform isn't exactly like installing a bike rack, especially if it's the platform is alien to the system. It will require some development and more extensive testing that will end up costing more money.

I see, unlike the 767 which has already an AWACS variant (E-767) there has been no operational A330 AWACS till now, with only the Indian AF having such programs, lucky for the Indians, they have DRDO to do the research and feasibilty studies. But still an interesting scenario though.

While that sounds ideal, need to bear in mind those two tasks are resources intensive, especially in terms of power. That's why most countries choose to develop a specialized platform for those two tasks.

can't we do it in phase, the E-10 M2CA have at least 3 phase of upgrade through out it's planned lifespan.

The capability of the MC2A was to be raised incrementally, with each phase known as a "spiral".

Spiral 1Multi-Platform Radar Technology Insertion Program (MP-RTIP): This version would have provided substantial Joint Cruise Missile Defense (CMD) capability with focused AMTI modes and augment the E-8 Joint STARS in the ground surveillance role.

Spiral 2AWACS Capability: This version would have replaced the E-3. It was expected that the Spiral 2 version would use a variant of the Boeing Wedgetail's Multi-role Electronically Scanned Array.

Spiral 3SIGINT Platform: This version was intended to replace a wide range of SIGINT/ELINT aircraft. Beyond conceptual studies and preliminary research, this version was not being actively designed.

Northrop Grumman E-10 MC2A - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kooppyyy]

I see, unlike the 767 which has already an AWACS variant (E-767) there has been no operational A330 AWACS till now, with only the Indian AF having such programs, lucky for the Indians, they have DRDO to do the research and feasibilty studies. But still an interesting scenario though.

can't we do it in phase, the E-10 M2CA have at least 3 phase of upgrade through out it's planned lifespan.

The capability of the MC2A was to be raised incrementally, with each phase known as a "spiral".

Spiral 1Multi-Platform Radar Technology Insertion Program (MP-RTIP): This version would have provided substantial Joint Cruise Missile Defense (CMD) capability with focused AMTI modes and augment the E-8 Joint STARS in the ground surveillance role.

Spiral 2AWACS Capability: This version would have replaced the E-3. It was expected that the Spiral 2 version would use a variant of the Boeing Wedgetail's Multi-role Electronically Scanned Array.

Spiral 3SIGINT Platform: This version was intended to replace a wide range of SIGINT/ELINT aircraft. Beyond conceptual studies and preliminary research, this version was not being actively designed.

Northrop Grumman E-10 MC2A - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, Airbus has little experience and portfolio when it comes AEW&C. Perhaps due to the over-reliance of NATO on the U.S based platform for their airborne sensors? I don't know, maybe someone with better knowledge can fill us in.

I'm honestly not too familiar with the M2CA program. Looking at it briefly, I doubt we'll fare any better when a country with such industrial and financial capabilities as the U.S had to halt the project due to fear of cost overrun when we currently unwilling/unable to pay projects like the IFX. I think we need to be realistic on which kind of capabilities that we should pursue and we can attain with the number of resources that we got when it comes to procuring AEW&C platform. Or as the cool kids say it "wess, ojok neko neko"

 

[Gary]

M2CA program. Looking at it briefly, I doubt we'll fare any better when a country with such industrial and financial capabilities as the U.S had to halt the project due to fear of cost overrun

From what I understand, it's not only cost overruns, but mainly distracted US focus away from high end warfare during the decade of War on Terror, there are lots of US DoD projects that got cancelled or significantly reduced during this period, starting from the Zummwalts, CGN (X) cruiser, next gen kinetic energy interceptor etc.

So maybe at the time of the project started the US is still comfy with their E-3s, now that the Sino-US competition are flaring up, I guess that we'll see a next gen US AWACS program to maintain US edge.

As for inserting numerous equipment in a single airplane type, I think it'll reduce cost associated with operating multiple type of planes for specific mission (tanker, AEW, EW, MPA...etc). We can see how certain companies are offering their AWACS as MPAs, SIGINT all in one package, like the SAAB global eye.

 

[Nilgiri]

Yeah, Airbus has little experience and portfolio when it comes AEW&C.

Actually they have done a lot in the field formerly...what was known as EADS defence electronics and then Airbus defence electronics....they did lot of crucial development and implementation on the E-3 platform for its last bunch of upgrades iirc.

They sold this division some years ago to an investment firm....but before that they were quite capable to develop a full AWAC platform if needed I would say.

Now if you go airbus (for awacs), I would say you need one more company for the radar side....or if you do refurbish route (from civ airline) to make own awacs etc. India is going to use A320 conversion (from air india fleet) for more netra AWACs.

 

[Umigami]

It's hard to take both afterall

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360253207977611267

 

[Parry Brima]

It's hard to take both afterall

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360253207977611267

I refuse to believe that we will fulfill all 100 new fighters acquisition with only Rafale.

By buying from more than one source we practically spread the production line so we can get them faster.

 

[Umigami]

I refuse to believe that we will fulfill all 100 new fighters acquisition with only Rafale.

By buying from more than one source we practically spread the production line so we can get them faster.

Yeah you have a point.
And if I think about it again, in December 2020 french Minister of defense already said rafale contract from Indonesia is almost certain. So why American still want to submit f15/f18 proposal this Q2 if the posibility almost none?

 

[Ravager]

Yeah you have a point.
And if I think about it again, in December 2020 french Minister of defense already said rafale contract from Indonesia is almost certain. So why American still want to submit f15/f18 proposal this Q2 if the posibility almost none?

Everybody will get their share ... The most likely outcome would be F 16 from US ( regardless the series/block ) and Dassault get the double class engine with a massive local cookies ( TOT ) to satisfy some hardcore local element ....
Just hoping we don't bite what we couldn't chew . Even local maintenance/limited local production line for Exocet was allready massive boon for our side in the long run ( well , i do wish for a NSM but beggars couldn't choose and that is the reality )

 

[kooppyyy]

Actually they have done a lot in the field formerly...what was known as EADS defence electronics and then Airbus defence electronics....they did lot of crucial development and implementation on the E-3 platform for its last bunch of upgrades iirc.

They sold this division some years ago to an investment firm....but before that they were quite capable to develop a full AWAC platform if needed I would say.

Now if you go airbus (for awacs), I would say you need one more company for the radar side....or if you do refurbish route (from civ airline) to make own awacs etc. India is going to use A320 conversion (from air india fleet) for more netra AWACs.

I believe you are talking about the electronics and mission systems, I'm strictly talking about the platform/airframe. But nevertheless, we have the same conclusion. It's not because they unable to it was because there's simply no need for Airbus to develop and integrate its own dedicated airborne platform when most NATO countries still happy with their Boeing-based platform.

As for inserting numerous equipment in a single airplane type, I think it'll reduce cost associated with operating multiple type of planes for specific mission (tanker, AEW, EW, MPA...etc). We can see how certain companies are offering their AWACS as MPAs, SIGINT all in one package, like the SAAB global eye.

That's one argument for it. In the end, it's all down to the requirements and budget set by the end-user and ministry, respectively. GlobalEye is a unique platform, it remains to be seen how it will eventually perform as UAE only recently taken delivery. But I think it also worth remembering, the more specialized role you're trying to cram it into a platform, the more you put the aforementioned platform at risk of just being a jack-of-all-trades. Let's take a look at the soft resource requirement as opposed to the hard/technical requirement of the example you have given, it means you expect to train your personnel in a few different specialized roles as mission systems can only help you so far. We might disagree here, but as of for now, I tend to view these kinds of multirole-airborne platforms as a compromise instead of the solution, but you might be right, platforms like Global Eye might be the way of the future, especially with the increased efficiency of future types of equipment and platforms.