Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

flogger

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Considering current geopolitical situation, that is indeed the case. For the time being, at least. If we still insist to go with Su-35, China is operating 24 of it, so they're already familiar with its strengths and quirks.

Not to mention that it's a challenge for the end user (us) to integrate its ilk with the rest of our Western-made stuffs as well as how expensive it is to operate and maintain
You just dont get it bro..., and FYI i am not a fans neither west or east suplier / contractor and i am not mention about su 35
 

Umigami

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Ah yes there is nothing better than made in Usa.......

out-transparent-31.gif
 

Umigami

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who knows, if they think that the advantage of doing so is better, than who could stop them anyway??
We already have so many franco weapon system anyway (ground master t radar, caesar sph, renault engine, etc), so it's kind of late to considering something like that.
 

FPXAllen

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You just dont get it bro..., and FYI i am not a fans neither west or east suplier / contractor and i am not mention about su 35
So please kindly elaborate things that I don't get :)

Anyway, I'm not accusing you as a fan of anything, and my mention of Su-35 is just a matter of fact since that was what our air force wanted for the last couple of years before all of this - dare I say - CAATSA mess.
 

Parry Brima

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We already have so many franco weapon system anyway (ground master t radar, caesar sph, renault engine, etc), so it's kind of late to considering something like that.

Eurofighter T4 for the rescue🌪️🌪️🌪️🌪️
 

Gundala

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Considering that's what happened with Taiwan, they're already an unreliable supplier in this context. People keep saying how France doesn't care what you do with their stuff unless you're literally bombing Paris when in reality they have very likely caved under Chinese pressure. It has happened before, to think that we'd be an exception in this scenario is foolhardy.

Remember, France has bigger economical trade with China than us. Until that changes don't think that they won't sell us out from under the rug. Money talks a lot more than image, as money can buy you image.
It also foolhardy to generalizing geopolitics dynamics in this case. French is better diversification then Russia for us, to think that we would be safe if we go all US made is also debatable if not questionable. For now its our best bet imo.

Money talks, but National interest isnt all about money. Nation/regional security, natural resources, geopolitics, etc, is also count. By having Indonesia as one of their biggest and first user of Rafale in the area giving them 2 things hands down. Direct/indirect Influence over Indonesia and region, also more tight diplomatic and political relation to us, etc. One thing I know that makes a huge different between Taiwan and Indonesia is Taiwan doesnt host Trillion dollars worth of multinational ships cargo venturing over their teritory. That alone giving us leverage way above Taiwan.
 

San.geuk

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Since we still talk about rafale, we should cooperate with India about rafale supply chains, we can co-op with them in production line, for example if india build the wings then we should build the airframe as ToT scheme, this will make diversity on supply chain not to depend to french manufatures at least on fast moving forward component
 

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Since we still talk about rafale, we should cooperate with India about rafale supply chains, we can co-op with them in production line, for example if india build the wings then we should build the airframe as ToT scheme, this will make diversity on supply chain not to depend to french manufatures at least on fast moving forward component
I think the same way too
 

trishna_amrta

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It also foolhardy to generalizing geopolitics dynamics in this case. French is better diversification then Russia for us, to think that we would be safe if we go all US made is also debatable if not questionable. For now its our best bet imo.

Money talks, but National interest isnt all about money. Nation/regional security, natural resources, geopolitics, etc, is also count. By having Indonesia as one of their biggest and first user of Rafale in the area giving them 2 things hands down. Direct/indirect Influence over Indonesia and region, also more tight diplomatic and political relation to us, etc. One thing I know that makes a huge different between Taiwan and Indonesia is Taiwan doesnt host Trillion dollars worth of multinational ships cargo venturing over their teritory. That alone giving us leverage way above Taiwan.
Well said indeed (y) Was about to comment within similar line, although it will in brash tone if I were the one whose saying it
 

trishna_amrta

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Since we still talk about rafale, we should cooperate with India about rafale supply chains, we can co-op with them in production line, for example if india build the wings then we should build the airframe as ToT scheme, this will make diversity on supply chain not to depend to french manufatures at least on fast moving forward component
As good, it may sound, such a deal is going to be extremely complicated. Not even sure if it will be practically viable.

The main reason for any costumer to indigenously manufacture portions of hardware they bought is not only to receive an offset benefit, but also to help ensure supply. After all they are manufacturing goods for their own benefits. However, having another party to join the supply chain could potentially disturb the already established supply chain for any previous customer due to wide variety of factor, such as political instability, lack of industrial capacity, etc
 

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It also foolhardy to generalizing geopolitics dynamics in this case.
I'm not generalizing anything, the point was that everyone keeps saying that France is a safe bet when the reality is that they have caved under Chinese pressure.


French is better diversification then Russia for us, to think that we would be safe if we go all US made is also debatable if not questionable.
Our current adversary is China, and they have and will escalate things as days go by. We have all seen what they are willing to do to control the SCS since they think that there's billions of dollars worth of oil down there. Again, diversification is a sham, and thinking that it's anything other than a political corruption cash-grab scheme is living under a rock with rose tinted glasses.


Direct/indirect Influence over Indonesia and region, also more tight diplomatic and political relation to us, etc.
Why do that when the Chinese can just guarantee access and cooperation with gunboat diplomacy?


One thing I know that makes a huge different between Taiwan and Indonesia is Taiwan doesnt host Trillion dollars worth of multinational ships cargo venturing over their teritory. That alone giving us leverage way above Taiwan.
Again, gunboat diplomacy and the fact we have ZERO ability to close or search the strait if we wanted to. That and thinking Singapore and Malaysia won't cause a fuss if we attempted to do that is stupid, they're much more in bed with the French than we are.
 

Umigami

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I'm not generalizing anything, the point was that everyone keeps saying that France is a safe bet when the reality is that they have caved under Chinese pressure.



Our current adversary is China, and they have and will escalate things as days go by. We have all seen what they are willing to do to control the SCS since they think that there's billions of dollars worth of oil down there. Again, diversification is a sham, and thinking that it's anything other than a political corruption cash-grab scheme is living under a rock with rose tinted glasses.



Why do that when the Chinese can just guarantee access and cooperation with gunboat diplomacy?



Again, gunboat diplomacy and the fact we have ZERO ability to close or search the strait if we wanted to. That and thinking Singapore and Malaysia won't cause a fuss if we attempted to do that is stupid, they're much more in bed with the French than we are.
Still, French is MUCH better option than Russian. Going full American is politically impossible you know.

between buying French Rafale or going back with that overhyped Russian Flanker, which one you choose?
 

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between buying French Rafale or going back with that overhyped Russian Flanker, which one you choose?
None, I'd rather just stick with the F-16V and be done with it. And if they needed a twin-engine fighter then go for the EX as it has a lot more commonality with the F-16's and T-50's than the two options presented.

And if I was forced to do so I would have just picked the Eurofighter. At the very least we would have a common weapons pool, and Britain has historically been a much more reliable supplier when it comes to beef with the Chinese.
 
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Parry Brima

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And I was forced to do so I would have just picked the Eurofighter. At the very least we would have a common weapons pool, and Britain has historically been a much more reliable supplier when it comes to beef with the Chinese.

I'm giving you a thumb up only because you mention Eurofighter. It's super rare for members here to vouch for EF 🌪️ :D
 

Umigami

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None, I'd rather just stick with the F-16V and be done with it. And if they needed a twin-engine fighter then go for the EX as it has a lot more commonality with the F-16's and T-50's than the two options presented.

And I was forced to do so I would have just picked the Eurofighter. At the very least we would have a common weapons pool, and Britain has historically been a much more reliable supplier when it comes to beef with the Chinese.
bold: I don't know about that man.
their Far-left definitely "main mata" with OPM. what will happen if they take control of the gov in the future?


And again, your wish isn't in the option.
 

Chestnut

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their Far-left definitely "main mata" with OPM. what will happen if they take control of the gov in the future?
The only reason the Far-Left cares about OPM is due to mining rights. You'd be surprised by how quiet a sovereign government would get if you give them a slice of the proverbial investment pie. Look at the Tangguh Oil Field project that was awarded to BP years ago. Notice how quiet Downing Street got after that?

All this OPM talk is largely clickbait journalism. Left or Right doesn't matter when you're talking money.
 
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