Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

Umigami

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Any way I dont exaggerate, what I said is based on current development and design. The plane is already exist any way
But the capabilities isn't. It's still "cita-cita".
Do you seriously want to bet on someone else program for our future air force?

(Yeah I said someone else program, the one who develope that stealth feature, EW feature, and determine its pricing are them, Koreans, NOT US!)

About Rafale,
Actually I myself still think our best combo is still F16-F15 in term of efficiency. BUT let's face it, HE hold to much political power that even manage to convince our gov to decide F15-Rafale combo!
On the other hand, it's true that US do put strict limitations to their Fighter user. French who kind of "bad boy of NATO" could be the answer for that.

And yeah Rafale is pricey, but it's still a good proven fighter jet. So for better or worse, I said let's give it a try.
 

Indos

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But the capabilities isn't. It's still "cita-cita".
Do you seriously want to bet on someone else program for our future air force?

(Yeah I said someone else program, the one who develope that stealth feature, EW feature, and determine its pricing are them, Koreans, NOT US!)

About Rafale,
Actually I myself still think our best combo is still F16-F15 in term of efficiency. BUT let's face it, HE hold to much political power that even manage to convince our gov to decide F15-Rafale combo!
On the other hand, it's true that US do put strict limitations to their Fighter user. French who kind of "bad boy of NATO" could be the answer for that.

And yeah Rafale is pricey, but it's still a good proven fighter jet. So for better or worse, I said let's give it a try.

You are already against KF21/IFX program as we can see many of your post during in PDF and also in here before the plane roll out and even you were debating Turkish member with other Indonesian member in this forum to favor Rafale against KF21/IFX.

I mean what is in your head dude ? You are against the effort of this nation to build its own fighter ? Similar point of view I see from other Indonesian member in DT (Ananda), even latest post he wants Indonesia to stick to Rafale until 2040 and forget other type of fighter

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Well what much power ? Even President can hold Osprey proposal and preach Prabowo and other minister in front of public during the "Osprey saga". His plan with super jumbo acquisition plan is not seen anymore now. Defense Minister of course can decide what type of aircraft that he wants, similar like how Navy general said in front of TV that they are not even consulted for FREEM frigates acquisition, but we will see whether he can pass Bappenas and Finance Ministry for this revised plan to only buy 6 Rafale planes without weapons for 1.1 billion USD where better option is already there.
 

Umigami

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You are already against KF21/IFX program as we can see many of your post during in PDF and also in here before the plane roll out and even you were debating Turkish member with other Indonesian member in this forum to favor Rafale against KF21/IFX.

I mean what is in your head dude ? You are against the effort of this nation to build its own fighter ? Similar point of view I see from other Indonesian member in DT (Ananda), even latest post he wants Indonesia to stick to Rafale until 2040 and forget other type of fighter

-------------------------------------

Well what much power ? Even President can hold Osprey proposal and preach Prabowo and other minister in front of public during the "Osprey saga". His plan with super jumbo acquisition plan is not seen anymore now. Defense Minister of course can decide what type of aircraft that he wants, similar like how Navy general said in front of TV that they are not even consulted for FREEM frigates acquisition, but we will see whether he can pass Bappenas and Finance Ministry for this revised plan to only buy 6 Rafale planes without weapons for 1.1 billion USD where better option is already there.
Maybe because the one who make it great aren't us mate....

When 08 came to KFX launching I know we already too late to walk out from the project. So okay 48 IFX block 1 or maybe block 2 too will be the future our Air Force.
it's okay, gain knowledge as much as possible from that program but don't ever think we will master something fancy from it.

Now let's see what IFX block 1 and 2 really is:
A 4.5 gen fighter jet, not stealthy just with reduced RCS, with still quetionable not mature EW suite. It's maybe good to replace our old F16 as our workhorse, they don't need to be stealth for that.

But depending on IFX isn't wise. We need more mature platform too.
 

Djketoprak

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Then buy F 16 V and if possible combination of new F 16 V and second hand and refurbished F 16 V, why some members here is to obsessed with Rafale ? It is because we have what you said resource limited air force, then we should make all of the acquisition budget we have cost effective and efficient.
Some rumors said MoD want double engine. So F-16V doesn't include to his plan. Then, we have to realize that's not only about fund and quantity for the jet fighter. Maybe MoD consider about geopolitic, investment, ToT, and other we don't know

Sorry for my english😂
 

Parry Brima

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Nice,
8-10 years from now when KFX/IFX do meet what it designed for n also the price, it would be a little bit outdated to the other existing 5th or even 6th gen fighters
and when they or Indonesia trying to make the 6th gen, still, are you guy's wanna say the same thing about it??

because it doesn't exist, yet....

You gotta wonder why some members here are still so crazy in love with 1970's technology, when in the next 20 years Myanmar would probably have operated full squadrons of 5th gen.

Brainwashing at its best. It's not difficult to see that some behind it are coming from the industry, with shady intention concerning their own pocket.
 

joedhie2k

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KFX has airframe that is suitable for development another 20-30 years.. this is like J-20/J-31 and Su-57 development where currently has only reduced RCS frame with conventional engine/internals, but eventually with enough budget the RnD for the internals can catch up to F-22/F-35

airplane that is designed in 80-90s cannot follow similar development scheme.. current mature platform is an outdated future platform..

IDK why 08 really push Rafale.. but purchasing an entire new system in piece meal basis doesnt have any strategic advantage. and basically the original plan to have a heavy interceptor squadron doesnt fulfilled by Rafale with no weapons
 

chiphocks

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Some rumors said MoD want double engine. So F-16V doesn't include to his plan. Then, we have to realize that's not only about fund and quantity for the jet fighter. Maybe MoD consider about geopolitic, investment, ToT, and other we don't know

Sorry for my english😂
what kind of ToT that we get from Rafale and or F15EX anyway??
another assembly jobs?
or maybe something better like build + assembly some of the unsophisticated body part?
 

Umigami

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what kind of ToT that we get from Rafale and or F15EX anyway??
another assembly jobs?
or maybe something better like build + assembly some of the unsophisticated body part?
US asking hard for us to open DTS here for us to get Eagle 2, definitely something important will be transferred.
 

Indos

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what kind of ToT that we get from Rafale and or F15EX anyway??
another assembly jobs?
or maybe something better like build + assembly some of the unsophisticated body part?

For Rafale, Alman has revealed it and it is not even better than TOT and ofset for 2 A 400 M order. It is despite Alman work in consulting firm related to defense whose boss is actually France and his post is very pro Rafale acquisition, but he is trying to be fair about this fact:

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The Ministry of Defense and Airbus Defense and Space (ADS) have signed a contract for the acquisition of two A400Ms and an option for four aircraft on October 10, 2021 in Jakarta and continued similar ceremonial activities at the Dubai Airshow 2021 on November 18, 2021. The contract for two A400Ms takes advantage of the Foreign Loan slot (PLN). ) worth US $ 700 million in Determining Sources of Financing (PSP) for US $ 5.8 billion, which was signed by the Minister of Finance on April 26, 2021. Indonesia is willing to set aside funds amounting to € 484 million to the ADS to get two material transport aircraft airframe his using aluminum alloy , titanium alloy and carbon fiber .

Also included in the contract, namely the offset package addressed to PT GMF AeroAsia Tbk and PT Dirgantara Indonesia. Compared to the contract for the acquisition of 36 Rafales from Dassault Aviation France and 6 FREMM frigates from Fincanteri Italy, the offset target of the A400M is better because all the offset receiving firms are bona fide, reliable and have a clear track record in the aerospace and defense business. Then how about the offset details obtained by Indonesia from ADS so that this country will be listed as the 10th operator of the A400M in the world?

 

KanalKiri

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related with F15EX for ID ?


JAKARTA, KOMPAS.com - Direktorat Jenderal Perhubungan Udara Kementerian Perhubungan mencabut larangan terbang untuk pesawat jenis Boeing 737 Max 8.

Artinya, pesawat jenis tersebut kembali diizinkan terbang di langit Indonesia.

Keputusan pencabutan larangan terbang tersebut tertuang di dalam surat Ditjen Perhubungan Udara No. A4402/8/6/DRJU.DKPPU-2021 tanggal 27 Desember 2021.

Berdasarkan surat tersebut, pencabutan larangan terbang didasari pertimbangan proses evaluasi terhadap perubahan desain pesawat Boeing 737 Max yang telah rampung dilakukan.

"Dengan ini Direktorat Jenderal Perhubungan Udara menetapkan pencabutan larangan beroperasi bagi seluruh pesawat udara Boeing 737-8 (737 MAX), yang dioperasikan oleh operator penerbangan Indonesia di wilayah ruang udara Republik Indonesia dan berlaku sejak tanggal ditandatanganinya surat ini," demikian isi surat tersebut seperti dikutip Kompas.com, Selasa (28/12/2021).

Adapun surat pencabutan larangan terbang tersebut ditandatangani oleh Direktur Jenderal Perhubungan Udara Novie Riyanto.

Sebagai tindak lanjut dari proses tersebut, Ditjen Perhubungan Udara telah menerbitkan perintah kelaikudaraan DGCA AD Nomor 21-12-001 dengan Subject: Air Transport Association (ATA) of America COde 22, Auto flight; 27, Flight controls; and 31, Indicating/recordung systems yang berlaku efektif untuk pesawat 737-8 (737 MAX).

Surat perintah kelaikudaraan tersebut wajib dipatuhi oleh operator penerbangan sebelum kembali beroperasi (return of service).

"Operator penerbangan wajib memenuhi ketentuan-ketentuan pengoperasian yang dipersyaratkan Direktorat Jenderal Perhubungan Udara sebelum dapat beroperasi secara komersial," demikian isi surat pencabutan larangan terbang tersebut.

Sebelumnya, Boeing 737 MAX dilarang untuk terbang di ruang udara Indonesia berdasarkan pada surat Ditjen Perhubungan Udara No AU.402/0006/DKPPU/DRJU/III/2019 menyusul kecelakaan fatal yang terjadi di Indonesia dan Ethiopia dengan korban sebanyak 346 jiwa pada 2019 lalu.

Kedua kecelakaan tersebut terjadi dalam selisih waktu lima bulan. Adapun di dalam keterangan tertulisnya, Novie menyampaikan, pihaknya telah berkoordinasi dengan operator penerbangan dari berbagai dunia, khususnya wilayah Asean terkait pencabutan larangan terbang tersebut.

"Hingga saat ini, beberapa negara telah mengijinkan kembali pengoperasian pesawat 737 MAX. Mengikuti perkembangan itu, Direktorat Jendaral Perhubungan Udara, juga tengah melakukan persiapan untuk menerbitkan surat pencabutan larangan beroperasi bagi pesawat 737 MAX," papar Novie.
 

Gary

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I'm afraid that we're not going to have 5th gen jet either.

The US ain't gonna sell us the -35s, Su-57 is available for export but CAATSA will deter our resolve, checkmate won't be ready until even next decade and again remembering CAATSA. 👋

So we'll be likely stuck with 4.5 gen jet for quite some time. Doesn't matter if it's Rafale, Viper, EF2000, KF-21.

We could at best maximalize the air force potential by equipping them with the best missile we could buy and investment in ISR platform to increase situational awareness.

Other thing to consider is the streamlining of air force assests.
 

Gary

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But again in the region, only first tier air force like Singapore RSAF and Australian RAAF has access to 5th gen jets, other country ranging from Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam etc do have the same problem with us. So at least we could be superior to Malaysia or Thailand that's good enough to achieve.
 

chiphocks

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I'm afraid that we're not going to have 5th gen jet either.

The US ain't gonna sell us the -35s, Su-57 is available for export but CAATSA will deter our resolve, checkmate won't be ready until even next decade and again remembering CAATSA. 👋

So we'll be likely stuck with 4.5 gen jet for quite some time. Doesn't matter if it's Rafale, Viper, EF2000, KF-21.

We could at best maximalize the air force potential by equipping them with the best missile we could buy and investment in ISR platform to increase situational awareness.

Other thing to consider is the streamlining of air force assests.
which is exactly what they expected, all of US bestfriend like Australia, Singapore and ext don't even have all of their F35 and don't have a big enough expertise on how to operate 5th gen, not to mention in combat situation
threating Indonesia with CAATSA and closing the access to F35 are more like a insurance to US and their closest friend
 

Umigami

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Want stealth fighter for the future, this is some option:
1. Pray hard Boramae block 3 is a thing in the future.
2. Commit with Rafale and aiming for FCAS.

Edit:
But for now, how about learn from armée de l'air française how to make a formidable air force without stealth assets?
 

Umigami

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But again in the region, only first tier air force like Singapore RSAF and Australian RAAF has access to 5th gen jets, other country ranging from Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam etc do have the same problem with us. So at least we could be superior to Malaysia or Thailand that's good enough to achieve.
I think Vietnam aiming for Felon
 

Parry Brima

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But again in the region, only first tier air force like Singapore RSAF and Australian RAAF has access to 5th gen jets, other country ranging from Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam etc do have the same problem with us. So at least we could be superior to Malaysia or Thailand that's good enough to achieve.

Vietnam and Myanmar won't care much about CAATSA. I'd argue that they will be among the first users of Russian single engine 5th gen.
 

Gary

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Vietnam and Myanmar won't care much about CAATSA.
I think Vietnam aiming for Felon

I concur, both are die hard Russian importers and SU-57 is a headache. I think Vietnam will wait for the Izdeliye 30 (a very powerful engine of ~170kN thrust each during re-heat) series Felon to go into full production before booking an order,

I wonder if our F414 equipped KF-21 is up to the job. :oops:
 
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