Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[this is crunch]

Where our BUMN and non BUMN company get those steel plate for armored vehicle? Import or local product?

Krakatau Steel?

 

[Madokafc]

Krakatau Steel?

RHA, plate steel is not space science level local already provide them to Pindad or other armored vehicles manufacturing

 

[McCool]

Some months ago I went into a debate with a guy on Reddit. I argued that deploying MRAP to Papua is a good idea, considering the KKB tends to use cowardly ambush tactics. In such a confusing situation with limited situational awareness, even stray bullets can potentially be fatal, and firefights with small arms are ineffective (firing blind).

So having an armored vehicle heavier than frickin unarmored Toyota Hilux, but lighter than Anoa, may serve well in Papua. But the guy disagrees saying that MRAP is "too heavy". "Wth too heavy?" but then he clarifies by saying he meant the truck-sized MRAP. Well of course that's not what we need there, what we need there is the kind of Bushmaster and Oshkosh MRAP, equipped with a remote-controlled turret. The dishonorable KKB has no counter against this and it will be better than the current SOP of having simple unarmored Infantry doing all the jobs. Oh, and their deployment can also be supplemented with UAV helping with recon or perhaps also dumping some sari bahari on em.

What do you guys think? perhaps you guys have some opinion?

MRAP in Papua?. I don't know OPM ever employ and manufacture IED. for that u need mobility vehicle. Something like a Komodo.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

RCWS like this one

Consider how commander take on how they sacrifice their soldiers recently, i just think RCWS is far far preverable. Better to sacrifice soldier life, they have lot of them and tons who eager to apply each year.

Arrgghh, i mean please equip our man of war with beeter equipmemt already.

fully protected armored vehicles instead

Are this count ?

Rather than make them as a monument, its better to put them at service while waiting some good deals to come.

 

[FPXAllen]

Consider how commander take on how they sacrifice their soldiers recently, i just think RCWS is far far preverable. Better to sacrifice soldier life, they have lot of them and tons who eager to apply each year.

Arrgghh, i mean please equip our man of war with beeter equipmemt already.

Are this count ?

View attachment 41326 View attachment 41325
View attachment 41325

Rather than make them as a monument, its better to put them at service while waiting some good deals to come.

Those are relics. Yes, some are still in use with our army - for lack of better replacement - but I would prefer that our soldiers on the ground are equipped with something that's still in production or that its spare parts are still widely available rather than trying to resurrect or maintain old stuffs like those.

 

[Madokafc]

Got old news, P2 actually had been operational in Indonesia army, with air force and presiden security guard as the user

Pasukan Pengaman Presiden Terima Ranpur P-2 Buatan PT. SSE

Pasukan Pengamanan Presiden alias Paspampres kini kedatangan alutsista baru. Alutsista itu berupa kendaraan lapis baja P-2 besutan PT. Sentra Surya Ekajaya. Sebanyak 4 dari 10 unit Panser P-2, Juma…

militermeter.com

And infantry mobility vehicles like P2 is actually more than enough to handle perceived threat level in Papua.

 

[Madokafc]

Those kind of light infantry mobility vehicles is more preferable for the current Papua infrastructure in which still very rough and lacking proper automotive workshop even in their major Cities. Those light vehicles is more easier to be deployed, easy to get sparepart and for maintenance on the field your usual technician can handle them for usual routine maintenance.

I know my comment is so simplifying about thing happened on the ground, but i am tend to thing it would be much more preferable if they can get more available commercial parts (COTS) just like komodo it would be more simple if they can get Japan, US or German Made engine and transmission system compared to the France one. That's thing alone can save more time for maintenance and repair time.

 

[afiq0110]

Btw Afiq, are you Afiq the historian guy?

Nope, different person

 

[Mandala]

For trial?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505818119486406656

 

[ira_1]

That's the matter of logistics. If we take fuel consumption as a limiting factor, our current approach to mobility in Papua; helicopter, technically making operational costs there much higher anyway. So on the ground, the troops use civilian-grade vehicles, but the alternative solution is airlift, which is more expensive and uses more specialized fuel. Both "combination" makes the casualty rate higher and at the same time, operational cost remain high.


I personally prefer Komodo to ATAV or Maung. The latter seems to be too lightly armored and obviously prioritize weight reduction and mobility, rather than protection. "Protection" is the main take here, light or no armor vehicles are a ripe target for an ambush, and even if the rebels are completely incompetent, one or two lucky shots are enough to kill or wound personnel. Also having RCWS is important, as to not expose the troops to gunfire, and having an electronic weapon system is preferable to using the naked eye (ATAV or Maung is not optimized for this).

The idea is protection in general while having an IED-resistant profile is a bonus. Because it seems like the trend is that all armored vehicles nowadays must be IED-resistant, hence the craze with V-shaped hulls and such. Currently, KKB only ever used raiding tactics, they haven't adopted explosives yet (though not impossible to happen someday). My main concern is the risk the troops experience during an ambush, civilian SUVs cannot protect against this and they must fight on an equal footing with KKB (which is a preventable situation).

That's the problem with the so-called "logistics dictates strategy". We are concerned with one logistical difficulty and end up taking more avoidable risks because of it. SUV is used because the user simply thinks "vehicle is for moving stuff around", hence neglecting other aspects, namely military effectiveness. As for Maung, I think they haven't released the armor profile yet, so I am not sure of their protection. Though compared to Komodo they are lighter and have a longer range, perhaps also simpler logistics, but of course, less capable in combat.

Or, we can modify all those ATAV with add-on armor like what Freeport did with all of their Iveco Bus (on interior side) . 1.5m X 0.8m armor plate weighs only 30kg. Light enough so it will not decrease ATAV mobility much.

 

[Madokafc]

Btw, how about to convert all of infantry formation in the Army into Mechanized infantry and motorized ones, equipped with MBT, AFV, APC, IFV infantry mobility vehicles and MRAP. Just looking at increasing firepower distribution and lethality among units around our peer (including neighbor army) this Made infantry by foots is more vulnerable than ever.

It is true armor is quite vulnerable against determined attacks from RPG, Loitering munition, ATGM and such. But infantry on foots is much much more vulnerable even against srhapnel from simple hand grenade, small caliber hand weapon let alone blast from higher caliber weaponry.

Such preposition need calculation, like logistic issue (financing, sparepart, fuel and training) but once everything get done, the increasing firepower and protection would giving more asurrance for the task being done successfully

 

[Lordimperator]

equipped with MBT

need a lot more Leo for ADRI

 

[Madokafc]

For now, TNI AD having at least 21 infantry brigade units (outside of independen battalion infantry) if each of them have at least three infantry battalion, thus they are in command of about 63 battalion infantry. And to convert them all into Mechanized infantry, each battalion need at least 40-50 APC/IFV/IMV/FSV and dozens of fuel truck, transport truck and munition truck. Thus the number needed at least 2520 to 3150 armored vehicles and between 756 to 1512 logistic truck.

That's beside the necessity to equipped them with AT weapons, HMG, mortar units and other stuff like drones medevac and so on.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Real question: How to counter this ATGM fired from 5 km away?

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/tj8n9h
Asking infantry to scouts around every 5 km is improbable. By the time infantry near the tank hear the sound, they're already doomed.

Get something like Trophy APS.

Btw, how about to convert all of infantry formation in the Army into Mechanized infantry and motorized ones, equipped with MBT, AFV, APC, IFV infantry mobility vehicles and MRAP. Just looking at increasing firepower distribution and lethality among units around our peer (including neighbor army) this Made infantry by foots is more vulnerable than ever.

For now, TNI AD having at least 21 infantry brigade units (outside of independen battalion infantry) if each of them have at least three infantry battalion, thus they are in command of about 63 battalion infantry. And to convert them all into Mechanized infantry, each battalion need at least 40-50 APC/IFV/IMV/FSV and dozens of fuel truck, transport truck and munition truck. Thus the number needed at least 2520 to 3150 armored vehicles and between 756 to 1512 logistic truck.

Motorized yes, mechanized probably no. Mechanized units are very maintenance-heavy and have a high operating cost. Not to mention the logistical issues, fuel and parts aren't easy stuff to work with. For motorized, we should really standardize logistical dan transport trucks all across the military, which will tremendously simplify the logistical system.

The issue with the Infantry, which made up the bulk of the Army. Is that historically, mobility and vehicles are the exceptions rather than the rule in regard to the Infantry and the Army in general. Take for example German Army in WW2, despite being famous for their mechanized warfare, most of the Army was transported by horse in off-road conditions (if not on-foot). Having a fully motorized Army is a luxury that even most WW2 great powers were unable to enjoy, that is why the American Army was impressive due to them being able to supply their extremely high fuel consumption.

Fuel consumption is a big issue for Indonesia, because, despite the fact that we are an oil-producing nation, our civilian fuel consumption exceeds our production capacity. So most fuels are reserved for your everyday Honda Beat and Toyota Avanza, rather than for Leopards or Renault trucks. For prolonged war, this will pose a problem, because fuel reserved for the military will be limited, yet at the same time limiting civilian consumption will potentially tank the economy. Also in war, the fuel supply chain will definitely be disrupted, imports from the middle east will probably be blockaded and inter-island shipping will be difficult. So basically there needs to be a coherent logistics strategy for Indonesia, a lot of reforms, and serious observance on this matter.

There is some alternative for transportation though. For example, the Germans and the Soviets, relied on railways to transport troops and equipment across. Cheaper, more economical, faster, predictable, and reliable form of transportation to deploy troops to the frontline. From 1870 up to Today, railways become the life-saving carriage of Armies around the world and have proven to be the more reliable choice for a non-American military. Russian army prior to the Invasion, relied on railways to transport troops to the border, and that stuff is the only thing preventing them from f*cking up worse than what already is. Without railways, we can see that their logistics breaks down really quickly and that the matter becomes very complicated as the war progressed. What happened in the war, is due to the problem with a motorized army in general, and the advantage of railways in particular.

 

[Lordimperator]

Korean APS?

Trophy APS

 

[Umigami]

Is this repost?

Sometime, I'm curious what US gun youtube channel like MAC or Forgotten Weapon think about SS2 ?

 

[NEKO]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1389585471626379264

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408034327716196355

1.Upgrade already ordered maung just like that^.
2. Order new maung from Pindad and ask them to add the modification.
3. Ask Pindad to develop the bullet proof variant.

Then you will get Nice mobility + acceptable minimum protection.

Or, we can modify all those ATAV with add-on armor like what Freeport did with all of their Iveco Bus (on interior side) . 1.5m X 0.8m armor plate weighs only 30kg. Light enough so it will not decrease ATAV mobility much.

But ATAV have the armored variant.

 

[Madokafc]

Kemhan Akan Bentuk 5 Batalion, Ini Rinciannya

Kemhan akan membentuk 5 Batalion dari program Komponen Cadangan (Komcad) Tahun 2022.

www.inews.id

Reserve component, army would get three battalion worth infantry units from reserve units

 

[Van Kravchenko]

RHA

Wait a minute, that type of steel still existed today ? What a relic from German panzer tech of WW2.

MAC or Forgotten Weapon think about SS2 ?

SS2 never come into soil at first place. Since pindad never pursue for civilian use for their products.

Reserve component,

Does every matra need such reserve ?

 

[Umigami]

Wait a minute, that type of steel still existed today ? What a relic from German panzer tech of WW2.

SS2 never come into soil at first place. Since pindad never pursue for civilian use for their products.

Does every matra need such reserve ?

Actually there was this old photo of us army personnel carrying ss2 in US. They purchased some test purpose only.