Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[Van Kravchenko]

I wonder what's the mast-like thing near the back of the turret

So far has no idea what is it, in every 3rd and 4 gen MBT also Has that stuff installed on turret superstructure. Persumably, fire locator, not the radio antennas or snorkel.

There is a real need for automatic transmission in military application. And even present days commercial automatic transmission is pretty good for dashing cross-country. Unlike sport / adventurer purpose, the only "off-roading" that military application typically need is cross-country rather than mud plowing or rock crawling.

If there is a need for off-road capable for military application (which is very limited) you can always rely upon Unimog

I get the image of cross country operations at Operation Frederricus and Barbarossa, yes there's no paved road, the most bad thing happend on automobile is both transmission and suspension breakdown.

Affecting my mind to think automatic transmission isnt as reliable as manual.

. Also, if my mind serve me right Daimler is one of branch of Mercedes isn't it ? How good this vehicle, i mean theres only one assembly factory in Indonesia.

Other than Towing artilery piece or tank hauler, i rarely see TNI has employ great number of Mrecedes made vehicle. In civillian they are made into buses and big truck. Never seen an 8x8 config of MrC

 

[trishna_amrta]

Affecting my mind to think automatic transmission isnt as reliable as manual.

. Also, if my mind serve me right Daimler is one of branch of Mercedes isn't it ? How good this vehicle, i mean theres only one assembly factory in Indonesia.

Other than Towing artilery piece or tank hauler, i rarely see TNI has employ great number of Mrecedes made vehicle. In civillian they are made into buses and big truck. Never seen an 8x8 config of MrC

IF you ever drive Toyota Hilux platform then even commercial transmission is pretty good even for military role. Its more about the load the transmission need to handle.

Daimler also known as Mercedes Truck (with the same logo). There are plenty of commercial mechanics & spare parts across Indonesia ready to maintaining them.

The option to go either using 8x8 or 6x6 or any other axle configuration is about load distribution rather than role.

 

[Madokafc]

Looking at this picture remind us why modern APC/IFV (no matter it is tracked or 8x8) especially the ones designed after 2000's is quite tall and bigger, even for the relatively small Indonesian people it is already cramped let alone the bigger Caucasian people

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395720783830212609

 

[deadlast]

I wonder what's the mast-like thing near the back of the turret

So far has no idea what is it, in every 3rd and 4 gen MBT also Has that stuff installed on turret superstructure. Persumably, fire locator, not the radio antennas or snorkel.

The rear-most mast is a gun crosswind sensor, to feed another data for the tank ballistic/targeting computer.

The mast in the middle of the turret is for unknown cockerill laser warning receiver/protection system (not currently fitted on Kaplan-MT/Harimau).

Affecting my mind to think automatic transmission isnt as reliable as manual.

Automatic transmission has been widely used by world's military (fighting & logistic vehicles) since the cold war. Heck, even as early as WW2, some American M3/5 Stuart, M18 Hellcat and M24 Chaffe also uses some form of automatic transmission.

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396305892409110529

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396404553910657024

 

[Van Kravchenko]

The rear-most mast is a gun crosswind sensor, to feed another data for the tank ballistic/targeting computer.

The mast in the middle of the turret is for unknown cockerill laser warning receiver/protection system (not currently fitted on Kaplan-MT/Harimau).

From the pics above we can obviosly saw the difference between the turret, turkish kaplan didnt equiped with both crosswind and laser warning. But in some pucture Of Black Tiger we can see some laser warning and crosswind.

Noted that there at least 3 stations to mount things like Periscope, RCWS, etc in both front and back of the left hatch, and one behind right hatch.

I wonder where does Indonesian version put the commander side, since its 360 periscope were installed in right side, such as commander periscope on Leopard 2

 

[Anmdt]

From the pics above we can obviosly saw the difference between the turret, turkish kaplan didnt equiped with both crosswind and laser warning. But in some pucture Of Black Tiger we can see some laser warning and crosswind.

Noted that there at least 3 stations to mount things like Periscope, RCWS, etc in both front and back of the left hatch, and one behind right hatch.

I wonder where does Indonesian version put the commander side, since its 360 periscope were installed in right side, such as commander periscope on Leopard 2

There isn't Turkish /Indonesian variants/protoypes of the platform, one of the designs was shown in IDEF 2017 as earlier concept, another in 2019 as the final. 19 is the latest one which actual prototypes were built and went through the tests.

Indodefence 2016, first debut of mock-up

IDEF2017 Promotional video/ Full Mockup shown in IDEF 2017:

Indodefence 2018 first operational prototype was revealed

2019 Promotional video:

IDEF 2019 MMWT with Pulat APS:

 

[JATOSINT]

From the pics above we can obviosly saw the difference between the turret, turkish kaplan didnt equiped with both crosswind and laser warning. But in some pucture Of Black Tiger we can see some laser warning and crosswind.

Noted that there at least 3 stations to mount things like Periscope, RCWS, etc in both front and back of the left hatch, and one behind right hatch.

I wonder where does Indonesian version put the commander side, since its 360 periscope were installed in right side, such as commander periscope on Leopard 2

It is detachable

 

[deadlast]

From the pics above we can obviosly saw the difference between the turret, turkish kaplan didnt equiped with both crosswind and laser warning. But in some pucture Of Black Tiger we can see some laser warning and crosswind.

Noted that there at least 3 stations to mount things like Periscope, RCWS, etc in both front and back of the left hatch, and one behind right hatch.

I wonder where does Indonesian version put the commander side, since its 360 periscope were installed in right side, such as commander periscope on Leopard 2

Laser warner & crosswind sensor mast are detachable, they are flexible module for many modular Cockerill turret, each turret iteration/version (30/90/105mm) could have them placed differently from each others.

The commander would be on the left side of the turret while gunner on the right, behind the gunner main gun sight (back-up gun sight were placed on the right-side of the gun).

On these particular turret (Cockerill 3105) the commander optic could only be fitted on the right side of the turret, the left side doesn't have an opening for the optic motor/cable routing under the turret roof.

The left side (either in front of or the back of commander hatch) can be fitted with non-penetrating (externally mounted) RCWS.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

There isn't Turkish /Indonesian variants/protoypes of the platform,

I just thought that after development progress both Nations has developt its own version. Not to mention the turret and protection system (although its all modular)

It is detachable

Yes, thanks for reminding me. Cockerill turret has full modularity.

behind the gunner main gun sight (back-up gun sight were placed on the right-side of the gun).

I think that wasnt a backup sight, still that was maingun sight directly attached to the gun, meanwhile the in front of turret sight is intended to be use as Stug/Jadgpanzer series sight, to be use as hull down possition while serving as IR/Thermal & Night Vision sight.

Sauce :

 

[deadlast]

I think that wasnt a backup sight, still that was maingun sight directly attached to the gun, meanwhile the in front of turret sight is intended to be use as Stug/Jadgpanzer series sight, to be use as hull down possition while serving as IR/Thermal & Night Vision sight.

The one below commander optic were called primary gunner sight, it has all the bells & whistles like variable zoom, rangefinder, thermal/night vision, direct connection with firing computer and connection with the commander BMS & console, the gunner would mostly use this sight whenever possible due to it's nature as a more sophisticated and accurate sight than the gun backup sight.

The sight that were fitted directly beside the gun were called the backup sight, it usually has a fixed/lower magnification, smaller FOV, without thermal or laser range finder, has only rudimentary reticles used as an emergency backup when primary sight were unavailable/knock-out/malfunction during vehicle-wide electrical failures/battle damages to allow the gunner to aim and fire the gun somewhat accurately during those circumstances. The most likely use of backup sight outside emergency is to check whether the gun barrel are clear of obstruction before firing due to the backup sight mounting position.

FYI, both the commander optic & primary gunner sight are identical and both could be used to target and feed data to firing computer as a Hunter-Killer system. So if they're hull down, they would use the commander optic anyways as it is mounted at the highest point of the tank compared to gunner's primary sight.

 

[JATOSINT]

So it is clear that Harimau is equipped with 360 independent commander sight (?)

 

[Mandala]

So it is clear that Harimau is equipped with 360 independent commander sight (?)

You can clearly see the commander 360 sight and the gunner sight in this pic.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

The one below commander optic were called primary gunner sight, it has all the bells & whistles like variable zoom, rangefinder, thermal/night vision, direct connection with firing computer and connection with the commander BMS & console, the gunner would mostly use this sight whenever possible due to it's nature as a more sophisticated and accurate sight than the gun backup sight.

The sight that were fitted directly beside the gun were called the backup sight, it usually has a fixed/lower magnification, smaller FOV, without thermal or laser range finder, has only rudimentary reticles used as an emergency backup when primary sight were unavailable/knock-out/malfunction during vehicle-wide electrical failures/battle damages to allow the gunner to aim and fire the gun somewhat accurately during those circumstances. The most likely use of backup sight outside emergency is to check whether the gun barrel are clear of obstruction before firing due to the backup sight mounting position.

FYI, both the commander optic & primary gunner sight are identical and both could be used to target and feed data to firing computer as a Hunter-Killer system. So if they're hull down, they would use the commander optic anyways as it is mounted at the highest point of the tank compared to gunner's primary sight.

In John Cockerill official datasheet, this Turret can Mount 12 to 16 ready to fire 105 rounds in turret bustle. Have you ever heard how much the ammunutions can be carried ? Because that substantial number is a common in MBT that store their ready to use ammo in turret. (Around 12 tp 20 ammo, except for Type 90 and Lecrec)

also does this Harimau Hitam tank as a whole is capable to reload the auto loader without exposing its crew (like AMX 13)?

 

[Umigami]

In John Cockerill official datasheet, this Turret can Mount 12 to 16 ready to fire 105 rounds in turret bustle. Have you ever heard how much the ammunutions can be carried ? Because that substantial number is a common in MBT that store their ready to use ammo in turret. (Around 12 tp 20 ammo, except for Type 90 and Lecrec)

also does this Harimau Hitam tank as a whole is capable to reload the auto loader without exposing its crew (like AMX 13)?

it's 12 round.
Bold: That my biggest concern

 

[Van Kravchenko]

it's 12 round.
Bold: That my biggest concern

AMX 13, can carry 32 rounds in total. 12 ready to fire, 24 store around the hull. AMX 13 intended to be use a a pair; while one reloading the other is covering.

Not to mentions, its maintenance process in wich need engine replacement is nightmare process.

Abou the Black Tiger, i didnt know wether how many rounds can be carried at a time or did it can be reloaded from inside.

 

[Captain Wales]

Abou the Black Tiger, i didnt know wether how many rounds can be carried at a time or did it can be reloaded from inside.

CMIIW here

the cockerill 105mm gun from what i see and found on the web, when the round in the turret are empty they must reload from the outside.

from pindad and cockerill website that it can store about 12 round on the turret and 26 round on the hull.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

CMIIW here

the cockerill 105mm gun from what i see and found on the web, when the round in the turret are empty they must reload from the outside.
View attachment 21507
from pindad and cockerill website that it can store about 12 round on the turret and 26 round on the hull.

Well, what i can say ?
This tank build not inteded to do longtime fighting. And still hold te role of AMX 13 both doctrine and function.

Anyhow, did you can confirm if this tank could fire 105 mm ammo build for Royal Ordnance L7 and its derivatives ?