Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

Var Dracon

Active member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
144
Reaction score
165
Points
43
this guy perhaps one of "battle proven" suppporters.

For me myself never koeran subs are giid despite git much flaws, especially when the price is cut to the bottom by Us.

This new concept sub strongly resemble type 214. Altough in first place i still prefer to choose German made sub or japan made sub whatever its type :v
He probably worried because 403 had 12 problems during its sea trial, and after a while only reduced to 5 problems. We need a working submarine to fill the requirement for the minimum 12 submarines, not experimental, flawed submarines.
 

Van Kravchenko

Committed member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
235
Reaction score
92
Points
28
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
He probably worried because 403 had 12 problems during its sea trial, and after a while only reduced to 5 problems. We need a working submarine to fill the requirement for the minimum 12 submarines, not experimental, flawed submarines.
not only him, am totally underrate this KW 3 submarine with so much edge being cut down due to the price.

IMHO, this sub still on par with 401/402.

Thats why am still preferring to buy subs from Countries that deploy submarine in WW2,
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Professional
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
1,836
Reaction score
6,496
Points
113
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
not only him, am totally underrate this KW 3 submarine with so much edge being cut down due to the price.

IMHO, this sub still on par with 401/402.

Thats why am still preferring to buy subs from Countries that deploy submarine in WW2,
Indonesia has reduced the price not the Korea, If Germany asked for a lower price they will pretty much do the same,remove some cutting edge systems and downgrade to basic variant for others. Don't expect a Ferrari for the price of Lada.

Things happen in trials, thousands or more from most basic switch, anchor deploy and lift time, emergency systems, ballasting time etc are tested. These shouldn't have gone public for sake of showing 'korean subs have flaws'. The flaws not always refer to a part not working but also related to performance of the sub, such as surfacing time, diving time, ballasting time, tilting angle at malfunctions there are dozens more like this, also vibrations and noise measurements.

Point of the trial is to correct possible errors, especially for the first ship of the class the process is more intense and tedious.

Trials are also important for rest of the ships in the class because a true serial production doesn't exists in the sea platforms (complex ones), doesn't matter how many produced the newer hull would be still an individual hull and considered so, thus all trials are done from scratch except the ones related to main characteristics.
 

Van Kravchenko

Committed member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
235
Reaction score
92
Points
28
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Indonesia has reduced the price not the Korea
THATS WHAT AM TALKING ABOUT....

geez US$ 1 Billion for 3 boats ?.
What do you expect, a fascinating ready to go boat.


Am aware that submarine trials and error sould be classified, its not public consumption. Hopefully our top brass didnt aware of this and every aspect of procurement only focusing ti achieve goals in quantity but fotgot about quality; i dont know how much IDR the top brass have been chop from the deal.

Considering every submarine hull need a specifis sea trials, i wonder why 405 take so long in sea trials; yet no information about flaws were published.
 

Ravager

Committed member
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
266
Reaction score
229
Points
43
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Indonesia has reduced the price not the Korea, If Germany asked for a lower price they will pretty much do the same,remove some cutting edge systems and downgrade to basic variant for others. Don't expect a Ferrari for the price of Lada.

Things happen in trials, thousands or more from most basic switch, anchor deploy and lift time, emergency systems, ballasting time etc are tested. These shouldn't have gone public for sake of showing 'korean subs have flaws'. The flaws not always refer to a part not working but also related to performance of the sub, such as surfacing time, diving time, ballasting time, tilting angle at malfunctions there are dozens more like this, also vibrations and noise measurements.

Point of the trial is to correct possible errors, especially for the first ship of the class the process is more intense and tedious.

Trials are also important for rest of the ships in the class because a true serial production doesn't exists in the sea platforms (complex ones), doesn't matter how many produced the newer hull would be still an individual hull and considered so, thus all trials are done from scratch except the ones related to main characteristics.

The way i see it type 2000 was the accumulation of korean learning experience curves of U-209 and U-214 of their own . And their export sale pitch for the " economic " segment of their submarine portofolios . And yet ... I i guess it's part of their test bed for the DSME 3000 series

Why do they have to jeopardize their own when they tested their ideas on the foreigner ...as long as the foreigner sub doesn't sunk as yet i guess that's a win-win situation in their book .

What could i say ....i'm a cynic
 

wekiweko

Active member
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Messages
54
Reaction score
28
Points
18
Nation of residence
Barbados
Nation of origin
Barbados
well if you don't cut the spec (and consequently the price), do tell me how the admiral can finance his fancy car or fancy hermes bag for the mrs. admiral?
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Professional
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
1,836
Reaction score
6,496
Points
113
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Am aware that submarine trials and error sould be classified, its not public consumption. Hopefully our top brass didnt aware of this and every aspect of procurement only focusing ti achieve goals in quantity but fotgot about quality; i dont know how much IDR the top brass have been chop from the deal.
It just happens on any platform, even at the 10th hull of a class you would have some flaws in the testing stage. It is done during factor acceptance, in port acceptance and lastly in sea trials. Further, the flaws come in two forms (reduced to two for simplicity) major and minor. Minor flaws can be usually corrected on the go without any assistance from land.
It is a part of campaign for sure, someone intentionally spreading the word without giving details in which stage it has happened whether it is minor or major. There is no good intention for leaking this kind of information.
Why do they have to jeopardize their own when they tested their ideas on the foreigner ...as long as the foreigner sub doesn't sunk as yet i guess that's a win-win situation in their book .
They tend to use their own solution on their platforms, they use it as a leverage to reduce the prices and gain an upper hand in the export against other western countries.
Also they have flexibility of offering systems in various capabilities, If the buyer is keen on a lower price they just lower it.
I i guess it's part of their test bed for the DSME 3000 series
They have already launched KSS-III (3000+ tonnes) and it is on the tests. They are just creating other hulls with their existing experience, for export, since they have seen there is a tendency for high displacement hulls in the market.
 

Van Kravchenko

Committed member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
235
Reaction score
92
Points
28
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia

Captain Wales

Active member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
128
Reaction score
88
Points
28
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
welp, after nanggala incident there's some of people in Indonesia (include the politician) who already had a view that Korean stuff is sh#t and we should never buy from them anymore even though we are the one who mostly at fault.

so i already expect that some alutsista purchase from korea would get some opposition especially form those who bark first without knowing the context.
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Indonesia Moderator
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
1,586
Reaction score
2,535
Points
113
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Testing our "new" APC

181125640_3612938878814429_6910189050431203864_n.jpg182277674_3612938872147763_224880571283006802_n.jpg181086970_3612939072147743_8208787347178745637_n.jpg181569376_3612938885481095_4235847554419150798_n.jpg
 

R4duga

Contributor
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
454
Reaction score
524
Points
93
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
if we want to play safe , then seek something that korea already used/Operate , not like the DSME 1400 .
 

Van Kravchenko

Committed member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
235
Reaction score
92
Points
28
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
if we want to play safe , then seek something that korea already used/Operate , not like the DSME 1400 .
How about the Scorpene SBR class?
As i mentioned before, if you look for submarine go to the country that build and employ submarine in WW 2.

Not to mention both Japan and german are leading in SSK industries.


About Scorpene, you will need a lot of customization if you will go with more diving Time with those SBR. Currently the latest Soryu Class submarine poses a longest time diving due to Li-ion battery. But its weight somehow not suited with sallow Sunda shelf sea.

Some experts in this forum say, Type 214 + AIP is best candidate. Minus she got no X rudder.
 

Captain Wales

Active member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
128
Reaction score
88
Points
28
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
As i mentioned before, if you look for submarine go to the country that build and employ submarine in WW 2.

Not to mention both Japan and german are leading in SSK industries.


About Scorpene, you will need a lot of customization if you will go with more diving Time with those SBR. Currently the latest Soryu Class submarine poses a longest time diving due to Li-ion battery. But its weight somehow not suited with sallow Sunda shelf sea.

Some experts in this forum say, Type 214 + AIP is best candidate. Minus she got no X rudder.
or you can go costum order to the german and get X rudder on 214
 
Top Bottom