Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Philips]

The Turkish MIC enlarged and modified an existing naval ship explicitly for Pakistan. Afterwards they started co-development of a 5000 ton frigate design of which both countries own the IP rights. Pakistan is also interested in future Turkish submarine designs and other systems not related to the navy.

Pakistan is picking all the fruits of this cooperation while Indonesian MoD is doing everything it can to make it harder for themselves. Almost as if they are into SM...

 

[RajaSultanKing]

Commitment is what we're lacking, and so does transparency.

Hence we bought VLS and SAM system from Euro OEM instead of cheaper more widely used system from the US.

The Dutch had been the main benefactors when it comes to ships and sensors for a very very long time. Because they know how to deal with locals

Talking about VLS wasn't it because the US doesn't give its approval on the use of Mk41 on REM or was it because some sort "part of the package" thing

I do wonder whether there's still this fear of US/EU embargo on defence products in the armed forces or not since it seems that the current MoD is looking toward EU for near-future procurements

 

[NEKO]

Does Turkish frigate amongst the frigate candidate back then, I only remember mostly about submarine and a little about Ada corvette, there is not much news coming from Turkey.

 

[Madokafc]

Does Turkish frigate amongst the frigate candidate back then, I only remember mostly about submarine and a little about Ada corvette, there is not much news coming from Turkey.

Well the candidate back then is from South Korean, Netherland and Danish. Ada class is being offered during PKR bid way back in 2010....

Btw, related to FREMM and Mogami class they are new requirement after adjustment doing so by 08

 

[Madokafc]

https://www.facebook.com/lembagakeris/posts/3821666711274977

atleast our LPD will not use that bofors 40mm with manual darto aiming system again .

They should get more for our newly built LST, LPD and Patrol boat or OPV

 

[NEKO]

Well the candidate back then is from South Korean, Netherland and Danish. Ada class is being offered during PKR bid way back in 2010....

Btw, related to FREMM and Mogami class they are new requirement after adjustment doing so by 08

Those new frigate will keep PAL busy for a while and MoD won't try to get new kind of major combat vessels probably just gonna order for more if needed, hm... what kind of big ticket item left for surface assets in this decade? Something worth to hype

 

[Gary]

Talking about VLS wasn't it because the US doesn't give its approval on the use of Mk41 on REM or was it because some sort "part of the package" thing

I do wonder whether there's still this fear of US/EU embargo on defence products in the armed forces or not since it seems that the current MoD is looking toward EU for near-future procurements

Do you really buy those embargo fear? If that's the case we're not buying ex AMARG F-16s.

The US is transparent on the amount of money needed for their contact as they have to ask congress permission for it.

 

[Madokafc]

Those new frigate will keep PAL busy for a while and MoD won't try to get new kind of major combat vessels probably just gonna order for more if needed, hm... what kind of big ticket item left for surface assets in this decade? Something worth to hype

Just waiting, even the current order is yet to be built. Upon completion they need to worry about the other thing

 

[NEKO]

Ada class is being offered during PKR bid way back in 2010....

Ah the good old days when the 3D render of PKR still use twin torp launcher and already make us so happy, and when the Covid19 didn't exist. That is so pre-Covid19.

Unlike the PKR the FREMM signing is a little bit bland, because its just goes like bam and its done and we are just like surprised_pikachu_face.jpg

 

[Ravager]

Told it before, worst way of negotiation using leverages in between of companies who are actually close and got organic ties. Haven't seen it works, belitting one company's (A) sensor package to another company(B) is definitely heard when people of those companies goes out dinner together at some other time. And it is an awkward situation when company(A) is contacted for the same sensor package for some other purpose. Short of the long story:
Either launch an official tender, to let those companies compete openly, or conduct negotiations behind the doors with manners.

In these particular case things are starting to heated up . Not only between Naval group and Fincantieri to an extent a state actor were quietly try to dip some toe in the turbid water try to influence some critical decision yet had to be made .

All this head-breaking over an unrealistic gada-gado mix of systems in a gado-gado mixed fleet makes me laugh out loud

You know, there is a friendly country that is developing all kinds of (naval) systems indigenously and isn't shy of cooperating and tailor making and ToT with the right amount of $$ and commitment.

There is no avoiding the Turkish MIC for Indonesia. If Pakistan can cooperate with Turkish MIC with 3x smaller economy than Indonesia, then Indonesia can do it too if not better.

You Indonesians in here should all be in unison : "Go Turk or go home!"*

*SoKor could be a 2nd choice but.............

I could only say one word ..... Reputation . The Turks has yet to prove beyond some mileage in their product competitiveness .
Make no mistakes tho" ... Indonesia and Turks are natural born ally !!

Commitment is what we're lacking, and so does transparency.

Hence we bought VLS and SAM system from Euro OEM instead of cheaper more widely used system from the US.

The Dutch had been the main benefactors when it comes to ships and sensors for a very very long time. Because they know how to deal with locals

Yet they failed big time after so much time and effort investment for a mere meager profits and forget the bigger picture ...

 

[trishna_amrta]

Those old grandmas are starting to make me worried tho' . While they still could fill the constabulary roles . old aging in the tropical climates are never kind to their hulls .

We do need ASW focused ships to replace those aging museums, i don't want to see another getting burned up or stricken after hitting something.....seems like MoD is focusing in multirole and AAW/ASuW aspect ships in the mean time

The real value of the Parchim class for TNI-AL is not in their ASW capability

 

[Madokafc]

The real value of the Parchim class for TNI-AL is not in their ASW capability

They are patrol gun boat

Our Navy bread and butter

 

[Madokafc]

Ah the good old days when the 3D render of PKR still use twin torp launcher and already make us so happy, and when the Covid19 didn't exist. That is so pre-Covid19.

Unlike the PKR the FREMM signing is a little bit bland, because its just goes like bam and its done and we are just like surprised_pikachu_face.jpg

The good old days indeed when most milies enthusiast in Indonesia is very easily being satisfied, you just need T72 to Made most of them content or something like Gepard class

Then bam come Leopard 2, Apache, hundreds of Starstreak mobile system, Mistral Mobile, PKR Sigma, and so on

 

[Ravager]

The real value of the Parchim class for TNI-AL is not in their ASW capability

They are patrol gun boat

Our Navy bread and butter

I'm fully aware of that especially at this moment . But age can't lie ... At some point we have to replace them eventually ....

 

[trishna_amrta]

They are patrol gun boat

Our Navy bread and butter

I'm fully aware of that especially at this moment . But age can't lie ... At some point we have to replace them eventually ....

It's for FIRE SUPPORT. None of those new frigates will have the capability for providing FIRE SUPPORT for beach assault. Those RBU-6000 along with their RGB-60 projectile maybe out of date, but so does the 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 of those Iowa class. And yet the USMC will be more than happy to have those guns pounding the beach than the new air support, missile, not so smart weapon, etc
But then again the wisdom (lesson learned) from both D-Day landing at Normandy and Iwo Jima has been forgotten

 

[NEKO]

The good old days indeed when most milies enthusiast in Indonesia is very easily being satisfied, you just need T72 to Made most of them content or something like Gepard class

Then bam come Leopard 2, Apache, hundreds of Starstreak mobile system, Mistral Mobile, PKR Sigma, and so on

I feel personally attacked wkwk
I am not really fond of T72 or Gepard tho

 

[RajaSultanKing]

It's for FIRE SUPPORT. None of those new frigates will have the capability for providing FIRE SUPPORT for beach assault. Those RBU-6000 along with their RGB-60 projectile maybe out of date, but so does the 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 of those Iowa class. And yet the USMC will be more than happy to have those guns pounding the beach than the new air support, missile, not so smart weapon, etc
But then again the wisdom (lesson learned) from both D-Day landing at Normandy and Iwo Jima has been forgotten

Hope there would be some guy in PAL who can design and offer a modified KCR-60 fitted with Pindad's 122mm MRL in its back to replace those aging Parchim with the RBU-6000, considering that mass beach landing is pretty much our Marine's go-to tactic

Do you really buy those embargo fear? If that's the case we're not buying ex AMARG F-16s.

The US is transparent on the amount of money needed for their contact as they have to ask congress permission for it.

nope, i was talking about the congress' or DOD's permission on buying those Mk41, since maybe the DOD or maybe Congress thinks that Mk41 would be too sensitive for non-US friendly state, which is why we bought the VL MICA

I was thinking whether REM's VL MICA could be replaced with Mk 41 or maybe Mk 57 like its Mexican cousin

 

[trishna_amrta]

Hope there would be some guy in PAL who can design and offer a modified KCR-60 fitted with Pindad's 122mm MRL in its back to replace those aging Parchim with the RBU-6000, considering that mass beach landing is pretty much our Marine's go-to tactic

You might as well hoping for a drop of a bag full of money coming down from the sky.

What we actually need for fire support is at least 6"/62 caliber (the bigger, the better). But then again we won't have any of that in any foreseeable future, so having something is always better than none, and we will make do with what we have.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

You might as well hoping for a drop of a bag full of money coming down from the sky.

What we actually need for fire support is at least 6"/62 caliber (the bigger, the better). But then again we won't have any of that in any foreseeable future, so having something is always better than none, and we will make do with what we have.

Something like her 6 inch naval gun ?

Somehow i just think your Daughter is around this pict age.

Back to the topic, well the era of big caliber naval gun is over isn't it ?

I do agree for coastal artilerry barrage. Even not causing human casualties, its effect enough to cause moral disorder.

Perhaps its still reasonable to mount some MLRS on LST. just like what murica do on Iwo Jima

 

[Var Dracon]

Perhaps its still reasonable to mount some MLRS on LST. just like what murica do on Iwo Jima

Well, we did fire Marine's MLRS on LST (or was it an LPD?) a while back

Hope there would be some guy in PAL who can design and offer a modified KCR-60 fitted with Pindad's 122mm MRL

Pindad does not produce 122 mm MLR, that's another problem.