Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Ravager]

i'am a bit dissapointed to our DoD or MoD, or whatever it called, they say the TNI-AL need a hundreds amount of ships, while currently only a few hundreds, and most of it were old and limited

we know that indonesia has a lot of shipyard (state and private owned) across the countries, especially in java, lampung and batam, and now we do have some sort of design bureau, even if it still a private company, like Terafulk,

with such amount of shipyard, we could easily build a massive number of ships, like waht china do,

the government should really maximize our production capacity, i know if they were able to implement it, Indonesia would be a real maritime dragon, as they dreamed

other countries, with a limited shipyard and low production rate, like singapore and aussy, they use their naval ship only for about 30 years or so, while we, we used it for a loooooong time, like kri multatuli and some lst, even from the 50s and 60s, that way too old, they are not efficient anymore

i hope the government really maximize our shipyard's potential, mubazir bro

What could i say ... We are still in the SOE minded environment phase .

 

[trishna_amrta]

i'am a bit dissapointed to our DoD or MoD, or whatever it called, they say the TNI-AL need a hundreds amount of ships, while currently only a few hundreds, and most of it were old and limited

we know that indonesia has a lot of shipyard (state and private owned) across the countries, especially in java, lampung and batam, and now we do have some sort of design bureau, even if it still a private company, like Terafulk,

with such amount of shipyard, we could easily build a massive number of ships, like waht china do,

the government should really maximize our production capacity, i know if they were able to implement it, Indonesia would be a real maritime dragon, as they dreamed

other countries, with a limited shipyard and low production rate, like singapore and aussy, they use their naval ship only for about 30 years or so, while we, we used it for a loooooong time, like kri multatuli and some lst, even from the 50s and 60s, that way too old, they are not efficient anymore

i hope the government really maximize our shipyard's potential, mubazir bro

And what kind of vessel could those shipyards capable to build? Playing it like Iran perhaps?
In this day and age numerical superiority is no longer superior as they used to be. Technology has advance so much in the few recent decades to the point that far smaller number of modern & properly armed combatant could overwhelm larger number simply by having far superior technological edge

 

[trishna_amrta]

We are still in the SOE minded environment phase .

And we still be in any foreseeable future

 

[schuimpjes]

What could i say ... We are still in the SOE minded environment phase .

Many Indonesian still don't know about the maximum capacity of capitalism.

Maybe when our private sector start to making something phenomenal many of Indonesian will start to realizing if things are can happen without government involvement.

 

[Ravager]

Many Indonesian still don't know about the maximum capacity of capitalism.

Maybe when our private sector start to making something phenomenal many of Indonesian will start to realizing if things are can happen without government involvement.

Without some special circumstances as an impetus like ...say , a wartime measures schemes that realization would be long in coming . As harsh as it sound that would the reality for some time ....

 

[Madokafc]

Without some special circumstances as an impetus like ...say , a wartime measures schemes that realization would be long in coming . As harsh as it sound that would the reality for some time ....

Even China need Taiwan strait crisis as the impetus for their Naval and Air Force modernization

 

[schuimpjes]

Without some special circumstances as an impetus like ...say , a wartime measures schemes that realization would be long in coming . As harsh as it sound that would the reality for some time ....

Maybe use US way of procurement, let say JSF. So, companies will bring their proposed products. Yes, our capabilities are not yet as good as the US, we're understand. But, we can try to use that scheme in maybe to supply the ammo for small arms and step by step to more complex technology.

Let the private sector to earn some money first, let them grow slowly. And government actually still have involvement, in this case education. Government still have responsibility to "menyiapkan orang-orangnya", I don't know how, maybe try to put higher standard to become a teacher and make high quality curriculum that made with the world class research, I don't know.

And I think again, we actually already doing it now wkwk. Salute to our government.

 

[Anmdt]

i'am a bit dissapointed to our DoD or MoD, or whatever it called, they say the TNI-AL need a hundreds amount of ships, while currently only a few hundreds, and most of it were old and limited

we know that indonesia has a lot of shipyard (state and private owned) across the countries, especially in java, lampung and batam, and now we do have some sort of design bureau, even if it still a private company, like Terafulk,

with such amount of shipyard, we could easily build a massive number of ships, like waht china do,

the government should really maximize our production capacity, i know if they were able to implement it, Indonesia would be a real maritime dragon, as they dreamed

other countries, with a limited shipyard and low production rate, like singapore and aussy, they use their naval ship only for about 30 years or so, while we, we used it for a loooooong time, like kri multatuli and some lst, even from the 50s and 60s, that way too old, they are not efficient anymore

i hope the government really maximize our shipyard's potential, mubazir bro

There are a few issues regarding to this:
In my opinion the worst quality-quantity criteria for a Navy is the number of vessels and tonnage. The aim shouldn't be number of vessels, otherwise it will be easy to achieve by just producing patrol ships without guns or sensors.

Second issue, lets say production of shipyards have been increased and Indonesia has ordered 200 of vessels for 4 years. What will happen after construction has finished? These are enterprises, thus it will need to have new orders to keep business alive.
China has "massive" shipyards,in amount, sizes, steel production capacity ,using brute force they are gradually increasing their designs and capabilities too. Their demand is so huge that it won't be supplied in a decade or two, those shipyards will keep running beyond of that too.

Last issue, we are on the edge of a new era where unmanned systems are being learned by common countries, US-Israel has mastered these systems already. MEF should be updated in accordance with this and if possible unmanned systems should be aimed to replace some manned platforms. A ship is a long term commitment, if you have one then you end up using it for decades (at least 15 until and MLU)

 

[Ravager]

Maybe use US way of procurement, let say JSF. So, companies will bring their proposed products. Yes, our capabilities are not yet as good as the US, we're understand. But, we can try to use that scheme in maybe to supply the ammo for small arms and step by step to more complex technology.

Let the private sector to earn some money first, let them grow slowly. And government actually still have involvement, in this case education. Government still have responsibility to "menyiapkan orang-orangnya", I don't know how, maybe try to put higher standard to become a teacher and make high quality curriculum that made with the world class research, I don't know.

And I think again, we actually already doing it now wkwk. Salute to our government.

In my opinion we are in the starting phase of said progression . Yeah , i know the progress are dissapointingly slow as snails walks but progress are progress after all it just not as fast we are all hoping for .

 

[schuimpjes]

In my opinion we are in the starting phase of said progression . Yeah , i know the progress are dissapointingly slow as snails walks but progress are progress after all it just not as fast we are all hoping for .

Maybe by export minded way of doing business we can boost it to become faster.

We have no war here. So, we asked maybe the Saudi or the UAE or Iraq, "what do you need?". So, the booster is the export demand not domestic demand, in Middle East, demand for weapons are higher than here. So, used other people war to boost our domestic production.

 

[trishna_amrta]

We have no war here.

I won't be so sure of that in the next 3 years

 

[schuimpjes]

I won't be so sure of that in the next 3 years

Ya, what I mean by that was about we don't have wartime demand of weapon procurement, but now we can see the demand for weapons are increasing but still not as big market as Middle East.

So, the point is, I was talking about market.

 

[this is crunch]

There are a few issues regarding to this:
In my opinion the worst quality-quantity criteria for a Navy is the number of vessels and tonnage. The aim shouldn't be number of vessels, otherwise it will be easy to achieve by just producing patrol ships without guns or sensors.

Second issue, lets say production of shipyards have been increased and Indonesia has ordered 200 of vessels for 4 years. What will happen after construction has finished? These are enterprises, thus it will need to have new orders to keep business alive.
China has "massive" shipyards,in amount, sizes, steel production capacity ,using brute force they are gradually increasing their designs and capabilities too. Their demand is so huge that it won't be supplied in a decade or two, those shipyards will keep running beyond of that too.

Last issue, we are on the edge of a new era where unmanned systems are being learned by common countries, US-Israel has mastered these systems already. MEF should be updated in accordance with this and if possible unmanned systems should be aimed to replace some manned platforms. A ship is a long term commitment, if you have one then you end up using it for decades (at least 15 until and MLU)

well yes, i loved to hear good argument,
i do agree with you,

ships in the future should at least, has integrated system, we couldnt just do it "borongan" things, the system must be well integrated, so in the small number of ship, it will be enough,

one thing for sure is, indonesian water are so vastly large and huge, meanwhile, our vessels are so limited, wouldnt it be a shame of a country as big as indonesia, only had a limited number of capable ships,

maybe yes we could only focus on some number of high quality vessel, but in the other hand, the need to keep that vast water is a must

 

[Madokafc]

Credit to original owner

KCR 60 , look like part of Boats 5 or 6, superstructure instalation

 

[Ravager]

All i could say is we are living in the interesting times of this decade . Either new order or the current one are prevailed i believe we will see the conclusion of such within this decade .
But i dreaded on the consequence of such event .
That is all i could say

 

[trishna_amrta]

All i could say is we are living in the interesting times of this decade . Either new order or the current one are prevailed i believe we will see the conclusion of such within this decade .
But i dreaded on the consequence of such event .
That is all i could say

More like in this century. What happens within this decade shape the foundation of what's coming, similar to the prelude of WW1

 

[Van Kravchenko]

I won't be so sure of that in the next 3 years

I dont quite comfortable with your oppinion sennsei.

It's has been started by the mean it isnt an open war. The phase of market war, cyber war, and recon are occur right now.

And i am quite sure to tell that we're will and also in the middle of it. At every aspect we still prone to defend even prevent it to happend.

Yes we still need much and more Hardware, manpower, etc. But we must acknowledge that Electronic Warfare and Electronic Environtment System are the main stem of the warfare nowadays.

I hope DoD and MoD do the best for this nation

 

[trishna_amrta]

I dont quite comfortable with your oppinion sennsei.

Who does? The way I see it about ⅓ of us (those in this forum) could end up on the receiving end of ChiCom cruise missile. Best bracing for it at least at personal / domestic family level by making the necessary preparation for general disaster preparation.

It's has been started by the mean it isnt an open war. The phase of market war, cyber war, and recon are occur right now.

And i am quite sure to tell that we're will and also in the middle of it. At every aspect we still prone to defend even prevent it to happend.

And where the line would be drawn to make distinction between them? The 21st century war fighting happen at Multi-Domain (Land, Sea, Air, Space, and Cyberspace) The cyberspace aspect alone goes very deep into financial / banking world, not to mention critical infrastructure such as electricity generation & distribution (PLN). Furthermore, in the cyberspace domain, ChiCom had already testing where "red line" of every country. You won't be aware of it, but the indications are out there in the open if you know what to look (hint : cashless payment processing) Also remember after the recent Jakarta blackout (when JKW came to PLN), he brings all the key peoples pertinent to cyberattack. Basically the presidential office was under the assumption that the blackout was caused by cyberattack.

 

[Madokafc]

China has using vaccine as diplomacy weaponry of their, there is suspicion from the Army about biological warfare Will be happened since two years ago and they are increased their training and SOP to handle such threat but alas that's happened too fast for many , and the fucker had wreaking havoc among our people and economy, coupled with media warfare!!

 

[Ravager]

More like in this century. What happens within this decade shape the foundation of what's coming, similar to the prelude of WW1

Well ... I'm not as optimistic as you were tho' . The gears are turning too fast for this one . I don't know what's wrong with all of these mainland anxiety but boy .... They trying too hard to prevail .