Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Anmdt]

Correct me if im wrong , Arrowhead 140 was supposed to be a flexible platform means they can suit specification that the customer wanted (sensor etc) , type 31 is one of the example where arrowhead 140 suited accordance to Royal Navy requirement .

It is 21st century every ship is flexible in design stage.

 

[Ravager]

"Harga terendah sistem gugur" moment ... , i hope not

Not neccesarily in that order but yeah we are closing to a cash strapped situation right now . Any cost saving measures gestures will be highly accomodated and received upon ...
I just hope that it will not sacrifacing the much needed capabilities . seriously we are in a very bad situation right now . Any less capable ships coming in today then it will means for another scraps sended to the bottom of the sea tommorow and to be honest we need those AAW frigates yesterday !!

It is 21st century every ship is flexible in design stage.

But it never flexible in the financing process . Bureaucracy was always an antithesis for the needed progression moves ...

 

[NEKO]

I hope it won't end up like the PKR only order 2 unit, if Damen can give good offer (ToT and $) then I don't mind if they are chosen again, but if not maybe its time to start getting comfy with product from other country.

 

[San.geuk]

for cost to benefit approach I think the Arrowhead program most suitable for us if the price competitive enough, build based on IH frigate, flexible based on user requirement, I guess the system not much different with current IH program,

but I hope we can get FREMM with Italian specs with fixed Kronos radar and better to leave Damen with their underpower ships

 

[Chestnut]

perhaps the same one that was offered to poland .
View attachment 15833

we need a bigger hull

It would likely be a variant of the Sigma 11515 HN offered to Greece. Again, Damen isn't stupid; They're going to have to offer something substantial if they want to have a repeat order of their Sigmas.


To be fair though, going with Damen could lead to a quicker production turnaround than the other competitors as PAL already has experience in building their modules. Then again it all depends on what are they going to offer with their ships in regards to the electronics package. If Thales Netherlands/Damen can give the MoD a competitive price in regards to a Damen designed hull then I see no reason not to take them up on their offer. The 11515 HN was designed to compete with the the French/Italian frigate offerings so I would not rule them out as a solid choice right now.

 

[NEKO]

If only the electronics also come with ToT just like the hull.

 

[Madokafc]

If only the electronics also come with ToT just like the hull.

The provider is come from many sources though, as example Damen itself only work as ship assembler and designers. The work for ToT must be negotiate with many supplier one by one,and prolonged the warships actual building process. The Turkish ADA class Corvettes and MEKO Frigates project of their is example on how long negotiation process involved each of parts supplier and Local defense companies for ToT and offset benefit. But once it been sorted out, the benefit for local Defense industry is very tremendous and great for the next project. South Korea actually being doing this phase since 1970's for their Pohang class and Chamsuri class projects, although they are quite confidence to do ships designing themselves and negotiate for ToT of the parts needed for the projects from aboard. And in 1990's they take off with KDX project and repeat the process.

Both countries relied of their civillian Defense industry and Technology Development association to manage the necessary transfer of technology, offset and local Development of military technology with South Korean DAPA and Turkish SSB as the spearhead of the arrangement.

Meanwhile Indonesia need to revise the scope of KKIP works and the technical detail, including supervision roles and check and balance of their works. And there is BPPT in which had Development roles too here. There is need to regulate there and here....

 

[Parry Brima]

This is quote from Greek source regarding Damen's Sigma 11515 HN offer :

"Damen's proposal for the proposed frigates is accompanied by a funding package of more than 80% of the potential contract amount. This possibility is provided in cooperation with the Dutch Export Credit Agency, which has extensive experience in arranging loans in cooperation with commercial banks."

Also take note Sigma 11515 HN has a total length of just under 120 meters and a displacement of almost 4,000 tons. Our Sigma is 105 meters and 2400 tons.

This different Sigma package along with good financial terms might entice MoD. Although I think this won't be competing against 140m frigates candidates (30FFM, FREMM, Arrowhead).

Sigma 11515 HN, ιδού η ολλανδική πρόταση φρεγατών για το ΠΝ - Πτήση

Τους τελευταίους μήνες παρακολουθούμε την μεγάλη προσπάθεια της χώρας μας να προμηθευτεί νέα οπλικά συστήματα και να επαναφέρει την διαθεσιμότητα άλλων εκ των υπαρχόντων μέσω προγραμμάτων υποστήριξης και εκσυγχρονισμού σε ένα αγώνα να ανακτηθεί η υστέρηση πολλών χρόνων υπό την απειλή των...

www.ptisidiastima.com

 

[Chestnut]

This different Sigma package along with good financial terms might entice MoD. Although I think this won't be competing against 140m frigates candidates (30FFM, FREMM, Arrowhead).

It competes in capability, it's not all just about size. The Israeli Sa'ar 6 for example outguns anything we have in our inventory at only 90 meters.

 

[Parry Brima]

It competes in capability, it's not all just about size. The Israeli Sa'ar 6 for example outguns anything we have in our inventory at only 90 meters.

The biggest Sylver VLS is about 7 meters length. The difference of 20 meters (and 2000 tons) compare to 140m class frigates could give us more room to add the punch.

Unless of course it's all down to the cheapest

 

[Madokafc]

MoD just recently certified LST AT 1 and 2 Made by PT Dock Kodja bahari

PENANDATANGAN & PENYERAHANAN SERTIFIKAT KELAIKAN LAUT MILITER KAPAL AT1 (KRI TELUK KENDARI-518) DAN AT2 (KRI TELUK KUPANG-519) KEPADA PT. DOK & PERKAPALAN KODJA BAHARI (Persero)​

Saturday, 13 March 2021

Jumat (12/3) di ruang kerja Kapuslaik Lt. 10 Gedung A.H Nasution Laksma TNI Teguh Sugiono, S.E., M.M menandatangani dan menyerahkan Sertifikat Kelaikan Laut Militer Kapal AT1 dan AT2 kepada Ibu Dra. Ina Resiana, M.M. selaku Manager Pembangunan Kapal Baru dan Harkan PT. Dok dan Perkapalan Kodja Bahari (Persero). Pada kegiatan ini Kapuslaik Kemhan di dampingi oleh Ketua IMSA (Indonesian Military Seaworthiness Authority), kegiatan berjalan lancar dengan selalu memperhatikan dan mematuhi Protokol Kesehatan Covid-19.

Penandatanganan dan Penyerahan Sertifikat Kelaikan Militer Kapal AT1 dan AT2 dilaksanakan setelah seluruh proses kegiatan Sertifikasi Kelaikan Militer yang meliputi kegiatan Aplikasi, Verifikasi Dokumen/Review Document, Pemeriksaan Kesesuaian/Conformity Inspection dan Pengujian Fungsi/Functional Test yang telah dilaksanakan oleh Tim IMSA (Indonesian Military Seaworthiness Authority).

Kapal AT1 (KRI TELUK KENDARI-518) dan AT2 (KRI TELUK KUPANG-519) yang akan digunakan oleh Satuan TNI Angkatan Laut untuk melaksanakan Tugas di Laut baik untuk kegiatan latihan maupun untuk tugas-tugas operasi dalam rangka menjaga kedaulatan Negara Kesatuan Republik Indonesia seutuhnya.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

This is quote from Greek source regarding Damen's Sigma 11515 HN offer :

"Damen's proposal for the proposed frigates is accompanied by a funding package of more than 80% of the potential contract amount. This possibility is provided in cooperation with the Dutch Export Credit Agency, which has extensive experience in arranging loans in cooperation with commercial banks."

Also take note Sigma 11515 HN has a total length of just under 120 meters and a displacement of almost 4,000 tons. Our Sigma is 105 meters and 2400 tons.

This different Sigma package along with good financial terms might entice MoD. Although I think this won't be competing against 140m frigates candidates (30FFM, FREMM, Arrowhead).

Sigma 11515 HN, ιδού η ολλανδική πρόταση φρεγατών για το ΠΝ - Πτήση

Τους τελευταίους μήνες παρακολουθούμε την μεγάλη προσπάθεια της χώρας μας να προμηθευτεί νέα οπλικά συστήματα και να επαναφέρει την διαθεσιμότητα άλλων εκ των υπαρχόντων μέσω προγραμμάτων υποστήριξης και εκσυγχρονισμού σε ένα αγώνα να ανακτηθεί η υστέρηση πολλών χρόνων υπό την απειλή των...

www.ptisidiastima.com

its hard for damen to offer low-end capability vessel to other country.

As far as i know, their order are in joint venture project.
Despite of damen low order of vessel, they still have full financial support.

With the nature of our procurement program, Damen still have big chance to win the tender, this because its foothold in winning contract for sigma class.

Athough both of MOD and Navy hardly bats an eye to Damen again.

Is far as i know FREMM are offered by Ficantieri, its mean that the version is 16 VLS not 32 VLS as the France AAW FREMM.

 

[R4duga]

its hard for damen to offer low-end capability vessel to other country.

As far as i know, their order are in joint venture project.
Despite of damen low order of vessel, they still have full financial support.

With the nature of our procurement program, Damen still have big chance to win the tender, this because its foothold in winning contract for sigma class.

Athough both of MOD and Navy hardly bats an eye to Damen again.

Is far as i know FREMM are offered by Ficantieri, its mean that the version is 16 VLS not 32 VLS as the France AAW FREMM.

italian improved FREMM variant in DIMDEX 2016 .

 

[flogger]

They can follow up the Itver route with Arrowhead or follow up the Damen route. There is chance for the Japanese to success too as they got more deeper pocket to financing the loan

True...

 

[Umigami]

Which one is better for us?
I think he is ngawur about commonality aspects.

Defence Review on Instagram: "Manakah yang lebih unggul? By @defenceview Kronos grand naval punya mtbcf lebih tinggi jadi waktu up-time nya lebih banyak, dan rpm lebih tinggi sehingga situasional awareness juga meningkat, NS200 punya kemampuan du

2,117 likes, 102 comments - defenceview on March 10, 2021: "Manakah yang lebih unggul? By @defenceview Kronos grand naval punya mtbcf lebih tinggi jadi waktu up-time nya lebih banyak, dan rpm lebih tinggi sehingga situasional awareness juga meningkat, NS200 punya kemampuan dual axis multi...

www.instagram.com

 

[Captain Wales]

I think he is ngawur about commonality aspects.

what he mean if we choose fremm for the next frigate program its better to choose kronos than ns200 for our iver.
(i think he more a fan of fremm, so thats why he say that)

Which one is better for us?

its not only the radar, but also the system in it. we already familiar with thales subsystem so for me its better stuck with thales subsystem.

 

[Umigami]

what he mean if we choose fremm for the next frigate program its better to choose kronos than ns200 for our iver.
(i think he more a fan of fremm, so thats why he say that)

its not only the radar, but also the system in it. we already familiar with thales subsystem so for me its better stuck with thales subsystem.

Yeah "iver" foe AAW, type 31 for multy purposes.

 

[trishna_amrta]

There is chance for the Japanese to success too as they got more deeper pocket to financing the loan

All things considered (particularly the political aspect), I strongly believe the is the strongest candidate by very large margin

 

[trishna_amrta]

"Harga terendah sistem gugur" moment ... , i hope not

You know, the is more than capable to just give away "promotional unit/s" for FREE*

* : Term & Condition apply

 

[Parry Brima]

All things considered (particularly the political aspect), I strongly believe the is the strongest candidate by very large margin

Just hope that "all things considered" here include the green light to get all the original specifications (combat systems/radar/sonar/missiles/etc).

If it's just the hull, then we need to recalculate wisely.