Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358709472101736450

 

[wekiweko]

old U209/1400 means need modernisation/refurb for CMS, battery, probably other electronics..
also refurb works can take same period with buying newly built U209/1400 (CBG)..

IMO rubbish deal

yep agree with you, if materialized, it will not provide any advantage if no modification were made. However, it does begs the question of what triggers this deal? are there something wrong with the Nagapasa that makes us willing to spend money to just add submarine hulls? if indeed there are something wrong with Nagapasas, then whoever in charge of their acquisition should be tried and jailed

 

[Ravager]

As shady as the decision and deals were made . We are sorely lacking in number of hulls . Take that as you may ...

Sigh ...

 

[Gary]

Submarines are likely the most survivable assets we have once a conflict breaks out, can't seems to understand why people are opposed to this, for $70mil a piece that's not bad, Singapore spent $900mil a piece for their 218SGs in comparison.

 

[Panca]

Whether to upgrade PT PAL with existing experience.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Its been a while tho.

My statement before goes to sunda shelf (lautan yang terbentuk karena terendamnya dataran rendah sunda besar)

that sea, were the most busy water teritory of Indonesia. With average shallow depth compare to other part of indonesian water.
But, i clearly doubt that we has proper mapping of its seabed.

Its need continuous survey. This is mostly because of sedimentary flow from rivers system of Java (Java Sea) & Sumatra (Malacca Strait). Even some part of Malacca Strait keep getting shallower & narrower if not being dredge at some parts.

Back then when german send its U boat much of them ended up sunk at java sea,

It was very sad to what happen to those Monsun Gruppe boats. It was an awful ROE policy by both BdU (Befehlshaber der Unterseeboote) & Nippon Kaigun. Although only few of those Monsun Gruppe boats that were sunk by enemy action (only 3 if I'm not mistaken), while the rest of them were either surrender, accident/ technical mishap, or was deliberately made "missing" along with whatever quite precious cargo she was carrying by her own crew.
Anyway the steel of those WW2 wreck is quite precious in their own way. They were made before 1945 (Manhattan Project Trinity test) thus making them not only rare but also very valuable today.

What i think today, that perhaps we will not have any proper vessel that at least on par with Chinesse type 54 frigate in this 5 year

Not even 30 FFM could beat type 54 frigate

Gross misconception there. The role of any surface combatant is mostly to provide escort to a task force / task element, NOT to slugging out one another with missiles. ASuW is the main role of submarine force NOT another surface combatant.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Its need continuous survey.

Agree, ,
Proper mapping of territorial sea bed could bring much advantage to the nation, not only in ship traffic water but at all seabed. Moreover the probabillity of nature resource such as oil and gas could be discover in near future. In my believe contious mapping of our national seabed surely will give a profitable use.

It was an awful ROE policy by both BdU (Befehlshaber der Unterseeboote) & Nippon Kaigun

It is unclear for me what kind of mission that bear by thoose U-boats?. German - Pacific is very long route, and no way they will pass through suez canal; i believe they sail through Cape of Hope.

Back then, German Type VII & Japan Type B has state of art capabillity but not as capable as Gato Class from US with mechanic computer on it.

Moreover, the invention of Hedgehog Anti Sub Mortar and more vessel that equipped with Sonar make the hegemony of Axis submarine turn to Dusk.

Gross misconception there

I Just thinking more missile is more stronger there

This oppinion also derived from Braden-wurtenberg class wich was Bulky but with little to none state of the art arment.

'Bout the submarine. Isn't it to pricy for sub to do anti submarine mission ?

At first place, my mind just going to think that submarine role isnt much change from WW2 era doctrine.

 

[Panca]

 

[Var Dracon]

View attachment 13753

Can we make it into a target? Or is it already scrapped?

 

[Panca]

Can we make it into a target? Or is it already scrapped?

Pulling a ship out to sea in these conditions is very dangerous.

 

[trishna_amrta]

It is unclear for me what kind of mission that bear by thoose U-boats?. German - Pacific is very long route, and no way they will pass through suez canal; i believe they sail through Cape of Hope.

The Monsun Gruppe role was mostly to establish a supply route for critical raw war materials from Sumatra & Java by trading the latest of German equipment for Dai Nippon. And disturbing Allied supply route in Indian Ocean.

Type IX can reach Malaca Strait (Penang) with refuelling in the middle of the Atlantic by Milch Cows (Type XIV) and / or by conventional tanker (commercial) in the middle of Indian Ocean (usually east of Madagascar) with and the later Type IXC/40 & Type IXD2 can cruise directly to either Penang or Batavia, albeit by going slow (9 kts - 10 kts) to maintain fuel economy.

The Mediterranean is off limit to u-boat. This is what happen if u-boat try to sneak in to the Mediterranean

Back then, German Type VII & Japan Type B has state of art capabillity but not as capable as Gato Class from US with mechanic computer on it.

I won't call it more advance or any is better than the other. Its more about doing it in different way (methods & procedures). For example US boats have Position Keeper to help keeping track of contact, while U-boats link their UZO (U-Boot-Zieloptik / U-Boat aiming optic) and both of their periscope directly to the Torpedorichtungsweiseranlage (Torpedo Fire Control)

This is the typical u-boat convoy attack modus operandi

Isn't it to pricy for sub to do anti submarine mission ?

Due to the nature of underwater environment, ASW is best done by aerial unit rather than having another underwater asset doing it. There just too many uncertainties in underwater warfare.

 

[wekiweko]

Submarines are likely the most survivable assets we have once a conflict breaks out, can't seems to understand why people are opposed to this, for $70mil a piece that's not bad, Singapore spent $900mil a piece for their 218SGs in comparison.

IMHO perhaps because of the following:

firstly: because then it raise question on what happen to Nagapasas that causes us to acquire hulls that offer no qualitative edge compared to Nagapasas?;

secondly: do we already have in place, a plan to upgrade those hulls? again, because the hulls in question are similar with the old 209 that we have and again, offer no qualitative edge compared to Nagapasas.

but then again, this is TNI AL we are talking about, we are used to being sub-par

 

[Anmdt]

yep agree with you, if materialized, it will not provide any advantage if no modification were made. However, it does begs the question of what triggers this deal? are there something wrong with the Nagapasa that makes us willing to spend money to just add submarine hulls? if indeed there are something wrong with Nagapasas, then whoever in charge of their acquisition should be tried and jailed

Nothing is wrong with the first three nagapasa, there is something wrong about the latter three. The contract still has not been realized and there are no intentions of completing it.

How many of the submarines Brazillian Navy is going to sell ? If i am not mistaken tupi class has received an upgrade in 2010 (CMS and torpedoes) . So those submarines are relatively in good condition.
Here:

LM to upgrade 4 Tupi subs for Brazil - UPI.com

Lockheed Martin has won a contract to upgrade four Tupi-class submarines for the Brazilian navy.

www.upi.com

The upgrade can be considered as an MLU which some hulls of the class may have 10+ years of life.

Brazil to transfer Two Type 209 submarines to the Argentine Navy - Naval Post- Naval News and Information

The Brazilian Navy has agreed to transfer two Tupi class submarines – Type 209/1400 – to Argentina, following a meeting between Brazilian president Jair

navalnews.net

More i wonder why Indonesia doesn't acquire entire of the class including the modded tupi. 2 probably already been transferred to Argentina. It could be a good stop -gap and keep certain amount of crews to be kept trained.

Those people, who spreads negative rumors about nagapasa class, should realize it is not affecting credibility of South Korea and DMSE but PT PAL and Indonesia.

 

[Nilgiri]

This is what happen if u-boat try to sneak in to the Mediterranean

Its a long way to tipperary, its a long way to gooooo,

 

[trishna_amrta]

Its a long way to tipperary, its a long way to gooooo,

You know I currently have at least 3 version of that song in my hardrive, including the version that were played in Das Boot, along with other version that were broadcast by BBC Overseas Service and 2 other versions that was broadcast by RRG (Reichs-Rundfunk-Gesellschaft) in 1941 - 1945 period

 

[Gary]

IMHO perhaps because of the following:

firstly: because then it raise question on what happen to Nagapasas that causes us to acquire hulls that offer no qualitative edge compared to Nagapasas?;

secondly: do we already have in place, a plan to upgrade those hulls? again, because the hulls in question are similar with the old 209 that we have and again, offer no qualitative edge compared to Nagapasas.

but then again, this is TNI AL we are talking about, we are used to being sub-par

I know, but Nagapasa's as previously shown has some design defects on it, and we don't know if PAL is going to be late on delivering new hulls, (405 is late on schedule btw), being second hand meant that we could deploy the ships sooner, some hulls as already posted here by a @anmdt before shows that the boats are already modernized.

At the very least we could justify replacing the two oldest Cakra class boats with this while we wait for 2nd batch Nagapasa.

 

[NEKO]

Why the second batch of nagapasa will be build in korea?

 

[JATOSINT]

You know I currently have at least 3 version of that song in my hardrive, including the version that were played in Das Boot, along with other version that were broadcast by BBC Overseas Service and 2 other versions that was broadcast by RRG (Reichs-Rundfunk-Gesellschaft) in 1941 - 1945 period

It is a great song!

 

[deadlast]

Germany has begun the construction of two minehunter ships with MAN engines for Indonesian Navy​

Naval News February 2021 Navy Forces Maritime Defense Industry
POSTED ON WEDNESDAY, 10 FEBRUARY 2021 20:05

Artist rendering of new minehunter for the Indonesian navy. (Picture source MAN Energy Solutions)

According to a press release published on February 10, 2021, German shipyard, Abeking & Rasmussen, has announced that it has begun the construction of two minehunter ships for the Indonesian Navy. Each vessel will feature a complete MAN hybrid propulsion package.

The propulsion system of the new Indonesian navy minehunters will include two MAN 12V175D-MM engines delivering 2,220 kW at 1,900 rpm, an MAN Alpha CPP twin screw-propeller system including Alphatronic 3000 propulsion-control system for efficient and flexible maneuvering and an AKA hybrid PTI system for silent operation while minehunting (slow speed with pure electric propulsion).

Ben Andres, Head of High-Speed Sales, MAN Energy Solutions said: “The 175D engine is ideally suited for demanding naval applications where its compactness and best-in-class fuel-oil consumption are always key criteria for customers. Delivering propulsion packages to these two minehunters also fulfills our ambition to increasingly becoming a supplier of complete solutions. This is the first time that we have worked with Abeking & Rasmussen and I look forward to further developing our relationship in the future.”

This order adds to other 12V175D-MM engines already in operation aboard several other Indonesian Navy patrol vessels.

......

Navy Recognition

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359735284238151682