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yep agree with you, if materialized, it will not provide any advantage if no modification were made. However, it does begs the question of what triggers this deal? are there something wrong with the Nagapasa that makes us willing to spend money to just add submarine hulls? if indeed there are something wrong with Nagapasas, then whoever in charge of their acquisition should be tried and jailedold U209/1400 means need modernisation/refurb for CMS, battery, probably other electronics..
also refurb works can take same period with buying newly built U209/1400 (CBG)..
IMO rubbish deal
Its need continuous survey. This is mostly because of sedimentary flow from rivers system of Java (Java Sea) & Sumatra (Malacca Strait). Even some part of Malacca Strait keep getting shallower & narrower if not being dredge at some parts.Its been a while tho.
My statement before goes to sunda shelf (lautan yang terbentuk karena terendamnya dataran rendah sunda besar)
that sea, were the most busy water teritory of Indonesia. With average shallow depth compare to other part of indonesian water.
But, i clearly doubt that we has proper mapping of its seabed.
It was very sad to what happen to those Monsun Gruppe boats. It was an awful ROE policy by both BdU (Befehlshaber der Unterseeboote) & Nippon Kaigun. Although only few of those Monsun Gruppe boats that were sunk by enemy action (only 3 if I'm not mistaken), while the rest of them were either surrender, accident/ technical mishap, or was deliberately made "missing" along with whatever quite precious cargo she was carrying by her own crew.Back then when german send its U boat much of them ended up sunk at java sea,
Gross misconception there. The role of any surface combatant is mostly to provide escort to a task force / task element, NOT to slugging out one another with missiles. ASuW is the main role of submarine force NOT another surface combatant.What i think today, that perhaps we will not have any proper vessel that at least on par with Chinesse type 54 frigate in this 5 year
Not even 30 FFM could beat type 54 frigate
Agree, ,Its need continuous survey.
It was an awful ROE policy by both BdU (Befehlshaber der Unterseeboote) & Nippon Kaigun
I Just thinking more missile is more stronger thereGross misconception there
Can we make it into a target? Or is it already scrapped?
The Monsun Gruppe role was mostly to establish a supply route for critical raw war materials from Sumatra & Java by trading the latest of German equipment for Dai Nippon. And disturbing Allied supply route in Indian Ocean.It is unclear for me what kind of mission that bear by thoose U-boats?. German - Pacific is very long route, and no way they will pass through suez canal; i believe they sail through Cape of Hope.
I won't call it more advance or any is better than the other. Its more about doing it in different way (methods & procedures). For example US boats have Position Keeper to help keeping track of contact, while U-boats link their UZO (U-Boot-Zieloptik / U-Boat aiming optic) and both of their periscope directly to the Torpedorichtungsweiseranlage (Torpedo Fire Control)Back then, German Type VII & Japan Type B has state of art capabillity but not as capable as Gato Class from US with mechanic computer on it.
Due to the nature of underwater environment, ASW is best done by aerial unit rather than having another underwater asset doing it. There just too many uncertainties in underwater warfare.Isn't it to pricy for sub to do anti submarine mission ?
IMHO perhaps because of the following:Submarines are likely the most survivable assets we have once a conflict breaks out, can't seems to understand why people are opposed to this, for $70mil a piece that's not bad, Singapore spent $900mil a piece for their 218SGs in comparison.
Nothing is wrong with the first three nagapasa, there is something wrong about the latter three. The contract still has not been realized and there are no intentions of completing it.yep agree with you, if materialized, it will not provide any advantage if no modification were made. However, it does begs the question of what triggers this deal? are there something wrong with the Nagapasa that makes us willing to spend money to just add submarine hulls? if indeed there are something wrong with Nagapasas, then whoever in charge of their acquisition should be tried and jailed
This is what happen if u-boat try to sneak in to the Mediterranean
You know I currently have at least 3 version of that song in my hardrive, including the version that were played in Das Boot, along with other version that were broadcast by BBC Overseas Service and 2 other versions that was broadcast by RRG (Reichs-Rundfunk-Gesellschaft) in 1941 - 1945 periodIts a long way to tipperary, its a long way to gooooo,
I know, but Nagapasa's as previously shown has some design defects on it, and we don't know if PAL is going to be late on delivering new hulls, (405 is late on schedule btw), being second hand meant that we could deploy the ships sooner, some hulls as already posted here by a @anmdt before shows that the boats are already modernized.IMHO perhaps because of the following:
firstly: because then it raise question on what happen to Nagapasas that causes us to acquire hulls that offer no qualitative edge compared to Nagapasas?;
secondly: do we already have in place, a plan to upgrade those hulls? again, because the hulls in question are similar with the old 209 that we have and again, offer no qualitative edge compared to Nagapasas.
but then again, this is TNI AL we are talking about, we are used to being sub-par
It is a great song!You know I currently have at least 3 version of that song in my hardrive, including the version that were played in Das Boot, along with other version that were broadcast by BBC Overseas Service and 2 other versions that was broadcast by RRG (Reichs-Rundfunk-Gesellschaft) in 1941 - 1945 period