Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Madokafc]

I understand this, of course. But by the time the common project materializes, I'm afraid it will already obsolete. Unless, there are some major breakthrough and not only following the established patterns. Like what I'm writing previously: even if it's still subsonic, but if it also applies some stealth technologies in its design then at least it still has a better fighting chance against modern naval combatants.

I would to see Indonesian Naval industry to pick up whatever technologies they yet to be mastered, and that's mean a lot of items on the list

We don't have any mastery on Naval radar development, Naval type Air search radar, ECM, EWS, SATCOM, chaff launcher, jamming decoy, limbo mortar, AShM, surface to air Missiles system, VLS, Naval Marine engine, Naval type artillery gun and so on in which i would need more than hundreds pages to type and list them all from Rakornas between industry, BPPT and Kemhan. At this stage i would be picky anymore

 

[Lordimperator]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=4073698816039909&id=108756005867563

Reminder of what we face on North Natuna sea.
We really need those Iver / Fremm / Mogami

Are there any deadline set by Fincantieri for our Mindef to finalize the procurement? I hope we could get those FREMM

 

[R4duga]

Not to mention their type 052D still roaming around in much larger number (with 17 active units and more on the pipeline to reach 25), we don't have anything closer to reach any qualitative and quantitative parity there to deter them at least. My greatest worry is when the balance of power is too tilted toward PLA Navy compared to the sum of capability of ASEAN Navies summed together, then the equilibrium of power would be upset so much and the risk of conflict to be happened would be much higher. Personally i don't want to see Renhai and Luyang class wreaking havoc against our neighbor very near on our border.




This would be a very nice addition to our dilapidated ASW capabilities

we're not going to win incase of clash between naval asset vs naval asset happened

that's why i keen to encourage indonesia to atleast have 1-2 worth of fighter squadron that able to deliver a naval strike saturation attack with supporting asset , something like global eye , tanker , EW Fighter and a couple of anti radiation missile in that saturation attack would be really welcomed (too bad we didn't bat an eye in something like growler) , i wonder if EA-6B prowler still a worthy platform for modern EW Aircraft .

 

[Madokafc]

we're not going to win incase of clash between naval asset vs naval asset happened

that's why i keen to encourage indonesia to atleast have 1-2 worth of fighter squadron that able to deliver a naval strike saturation attack with supporting asset , something like global eye , tanker , EW Fighter and a couple of anti radiation missile in that saturation attack would be really welcomed (too bad we didn't bat an eye in something like growler) , i wonder if EA-6B prowler still a worthy platform for modern EW Aircraft .

Our objective to build a credible Surface combatant warships fleets is not to win against them toe to toe, but show our resolve, show our presence and strength by show of force of Steel wall on the ocean to made any parties conflicted there aware we are not the one easy to be bullied. May God give us more strength

For EW aircraft, there is Growler exist along with her sister Super Hornet which can act as credible Maritime strike force, coupled them with special electronic warfare version of Poseidon they can be more deadlier.

 

[Parry Brima]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=4073698816039909&id=108756005867563

Reminder of what we face on North Natuna sea.
We really need those Iver / Fremm / Mogami

Don't worry, we got this

 

[Lordimperator]

Don't worry, we got this

View attachment 23138

With c802 missile ?

 

[Panca]

With c802 missile ?

RN01-SS

 

[Parry Brima]

With c802 missile ?

RN01-SS

Exocet is similar to C 802, no?

Btw, wonder if they can modify the troops carrying hull on both sides to 533mm torpedo tubes for the Navy.

Iranian missile boat Peykaap II can carry 2 anti-ship missiles (C 705 variants) + 2 lightweight 324mm torpedo tubes. Peykaap II displacement is about 14 tons, while tank boat is 43 tons.

 

[Captain Wales]

Don't worry, we got this

View attachment 23138

can this platform be develop into something like Singapore MARSEC USV? or as an minehunter USV like French/British one?

it would be great if we can develop this platform even further.

 

[Gary]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=4073698816039909&id=108756005867563

Reminder of what we face on North Natuna sea.
We really need those Iver / Fremm / Mogami

Type 055 are mainly (for now) destined for the PLAN Northern and Eastern fleet Because there lies the most important foes of the PLAN, namely the US Navy and JMSDF. But eventually some will find it's way in the Southern fleet.

The fleet responsible to deal with ASEAN navies are the Southern Fleet (SSF), ASEAN navies should make it a goal to at the very least capable of deterring the PLAN Southern fleet, unfortunately only Vietnam, Indonesia and Malaysia had made a substantial effort to increase it's naval size and capabilities, while Philippines is almost absent.

in it's current strength the PLAN SSF had at least 3 dozens of large surface combatants (Frigates and DDG) supported by at least 12 corvettes and 8 SSK, clearly dominating even the aggregate ASEAN navies down south. I don't see we can close the gap and disparities will continue to widen, there's not a single doubt about it.

 

[Anmdt]

Exocet is similar to C 802, no?

Btw, wonder if they can modify the troops carrying hull on both sides to 533mm torpedo tubes for the Navy.

Iranian missile boat Peykaap II can carry 2 anti-ship missiles (C 705 variants) + 2 lightweight 324mm torpedo tubes. Peykaap II displacement is about 14 tons, while tank boat is 43 tons.

View attachment 23140

Operated by 2-3 untrained crew who doesn't truly know how to lock on targets with torpedoes or missiles.
Designed to attack blindly in kamikaze missions.
Don't take Iran as an example, their entire doctrine is based on swarm kamikaze attacks in the Gulf.

 

[flogger]

Type 055 are mainly (for now) destined for the PLAN Northern and Eastern fleet Because there lies the most important foes of the PLAN, namely the US Navy and JMSDF. But eventually some will find it's way in the Southern fleet.

The fleet responsible to deal with ASEAN navies are the Southern Fleet (SSF), ASEAN navies should make it a goal to at the very least capable of deterring the PLAN Southern fleet, unfortunately only Vietnam, Indonesia and Malaysia had made a substantial effort to increase it's naval size and capabilities, while Philippines is almost absent.

in it's current strength the PLAN SSF had at least 3 dozens of large surface combatants (Frigates and DDG) supported by at least 12 corvettes and 8 SSK, clearly dominating even the aggregate ASEAN navies down south. I don't see we can close the gap and disparities will continue to widen, there's not a single doubt about it.

You are forgeting to mention singapore..and philipinos are now active moderenise their "alutsista" . well it still not enugh but surely make them bleed if "we stand to gather", and also if all our "pesenan " arrive than maybe " we been live in prosperaty" ...

 

[Gary]

Operated by 2-3 untrained crew who doesn't truly know how to lock on targets with torpedoes or missiles.
Designed to attack blindly in kamikaze missions.
Don't take Iran as an example, their entire doctrine is based on swarm kamikaze attacks in the Gulf.

Iran navy doctrine reminded me of the French "Jeune Ecole" doctrine adopted by the IJN during the early years.

Jeune École - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

it is only good in theory, and useless in actual battle

 

[Parry Brima]

Don't take Iran as an example, their entire doctrine is based on swarm kamikaze attacks in the Gulf.

If we're talking about <50 tons missile boat (like Pindad tank boat), quite difficult to find the comparison.

Probably PLA C14 missile boat who allegedly can carry 4 x C 704 anti-ship missiles + 2 × 324mm torpedo tubes + 23mm AAA + 12.7mm HMG.

This October-class missile boat from the Egyptian Navy is bigger about 70-80 tons, that's derived from the Soviet Komar-class (I think TNI had couple of this in the past). 2 x Otomat missiles + 2 x twin 30mm/75 AA guns

 

[Anmdt]

If we're talking about <50 tons missile boat (like Pindad tank boat), quite difficult to find the comparison.

Probably PLA C14 missile boat who allegedly can carry 4 x C 704 anti-ship missiles + 2 × 324mm torpedo tubes + 23mm AAA + 12.7mm HMG.

This October-class missile boat from the Egyptian Navy is bigger about 70-80 tons, that's derived from the Soviet Komar-class (I think TNI had couple of this in the past). 2 x Otomat missiles + 2 x twin 30mm/75 AA guns

View attachment 23168

Compare the prices as well, an Iranian FAC with 4 missiles will cost 1/10th or less than Pindad's tankboat.
Actually the only cost is the missiles. Those FACs run on commercial engines, commercial propellers, commercial electronics.
We had the same discussion in the past.

 

[Madokafc]

If we're talking about <50 tons missile boat (like Pindad tank boat), quite difficult to find the comparison.

Probably PLA C14 missile boat who allegedly can carry 4 x C 704 anti-ship missiles + 2 × 324mm torpedo tubes + 23mm AAA + 12.7mm HMG.

This October-class missile boat from the Egyptian Navy is bigger about 70-80 tons, that's derived from the Soviet Komar-class (I think TNI had couple of this in the past). 2 x Otomat missiles + 2 x twin 30mm/75 AA guns

View attachment 23168

Those craft are staple food for any modern ASW helicopters and Maritime patrol aircraft, Iraq Navy know better than any other

Even China doesn't give much interest toward such craft and fully invest much of their resource toward full fledged warships with Corvettes being the smallest main combatant warships their build in recent years.

Indonesia should be do the same, and being done with KCR 40, and only build proper 60 meter class as the mainstay of current Navy formation

 

[Gary]

Imo, There's really no point in finding ways to fit an AShM into what basically is a catamaran version of CB-90 combat boats, instead resources should be put on procuring new ships (proper warships) and modernizing and equipping legacy ships. Fatahillah class FFG for example had not had it's surface strike capabilities restored after getting fancy electronics upgrade.

 

[Madokafc]

Imo, There's really no point in finding ways to fit an AShM into what basically is a catamaran version of CB-90 combat boats, instead resources should be put on procuring new ships (proper warships) and modernizing and equipping legacy ships. Fatahillah class FFG for example had not had it's surface strike capabilities restored after getting fancy electronics upgrade.

Their jobs is relegated toward patrol vessels

 

[Gary]

Their jobs is relegated toward patrol vessels

Why tho? Then what's the point of those new radars and sensors?

Might wanna donate those to Bakamla. They're more in need of patrol vessels.

The similar Kasturi class had their surface strike capabilities enhanced with blk III exocets after their MLU.

 

[Madokafc]

Why tho? Then what's the point of those new radars and sensors?

Might wanna donate those to Bakamla. They're more in need of patrol vessels.

The similar Kasturi class had their surface strike capabilities enhanced with blk III exocets after their MLU.

Old radar and electronic system had long been pass their expired date and the spare part is difficult to get. Those Fatahillah class still good for ASW purpose though and they still retain the capability