Indonesia Indonesian Strategic Industries

[Panca]

another video

 

[Madokafc]

some recently debunkend karya anak bangsa moment .
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Karya Anak Bangsa Sweden, this hillarious on how they can't do decent efforts at all or at least just acknowledge you imported them and trying to license producing them it is still better

 

[Indos]

some recently debunkend karya anak bangsa moment .
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Indonesia private owned defense companies in many times just act as marketing office for foreign products, stamping Indonesian logo and asking for preference. A new companies coming from now where suddently has sophisticated producs. I know that UAV is just an imported one when they first showed it up on Indodefense event some years ago. Even I doubt Komodo rifle as made in Indonesia since they never show inside their factory.

This is why I still believe that Indonesia defense industry should rely more on state owned companies that have established since Soeharto era where they can get many valuable input from our research agency, universities and also direct financing from the state for their program without violating any law.

Private owned defense company that has good prospect are in shipbuilding, avionics, and some land vehicles and ammunition.

In order to grow, Indonesia private owned defense companies should get financial backing from established businesses. This is why I still believe with PT RAI (aerospace) since Habibie family has big business in banking, property, and education.

If Astra enter defense industry then it can be some thing in the future as well. Polytron maybe will be competitive in defense electronics as well if they want to enter defense market. Both are giant and has good financing to undergo research and expensive defense program.

 

[Anmdt]

Indonesia private owned defense companies in many times just act as marketing office for foreign products, stamping Indonesian logo and asking for preference. A new companies coming from now where suddently has sophisticated producs. I know that UAV is just an imported one when they first showed it up on Indodefense event some years ago.

There are times when a private company may bring a know-how and transfer a technology much faster than a state owned company (not referring to developing), or in other words a company focusing on a niche project can digest that ToT much better than a company invested in several projects with several project groups.
If they sealed a deal with a good ToT, license rights, know-how, then it may worth to use some of those systems as tactical UAS (especially RX450) , to be produced at lower prices and delivered to institutes which needs some UAV for civilian use.
Later it can be converted into a military UAS with collaboration and stuff, as well as a cost-effective solution.
RX450 is quite lightweight it may be useful in places like Indonesia which it can be launched from a truck, catapult or land at unprepared runways or even by parachute or at sea.

If they are just acting as marketing office of foreign companies, without burden of ToT, then you are definitely right.

 

[Indos]

There are times when a private company may bring a know-how and transfer a technology much faster than a state owned company (not referring to developing), or in other words a company focusing on a niche project can digest that ToT much better than a company invested in several projects with several project groups.
If they sealed a deal with a good ToT, license rights, know-how, then it may worth to use some of those systems as tactical UAS (especially RX450) , to be produced at lower prices and delivered to institutes which needs some UAV for civilian use.
Later it can be converted into a military UAS with collaboration and stuff, as well as a cost-effective solution.
RX450 is quite lightweight it may be useful in places like Indonesia which it can be launched from a truck, catapult or land at unprepared runways or even by parachute or at sea.

If they are just acting as marketing office of foreign companies, without burden of ToT, then you are definitely right.

I see that Turkey has many good private owned defense company. Do you think what is the reason behind that and I would ask whether they come from established businesses or not ?

One of Indonesia potential private owned defense company is CMI Technology which work in electronics and it include radar, but it is sad that they get corruption scandal when they want to get civilian project. I just see their good and modern looking website even cannot be accessed anymore..........

Dirut PT CMI Teknologi didakwa rugikan negara Rp63,829 miliar terkait korupsi pengadaan BCSS

Direktur Utama PT Compact Microwave Indonesia Teknologi (PT CMI Teknologi) Rahardjo Pratjihno didakwa merugikan keuangan negara senilai Rp63,829 miliar, karena melakukan korupsi ANTARA News kalteng kabar daerah ...

kalteng.antaranews.com

 

[R4duga]

to be honest , i really wanted to see those cigarretes manufacture conglomerate to atleast invest on creating local defense industry subsidiaries .

 

[trishna_amrta]

Minor part is we have to look at their history. All those shipyard were made to service specific area or purposes at first. Time goes then the merge happen, but it didnt go as expected, some still need to be nurtured by govt project to stay alive.

Major part from my point of view is "hidup segan mati tak mau", when you merge companies and not having enough project to feed the size then its going to be lay off. This is bad advertising, best course of action in political glasses is to let them be as is.

I personally not a fans of SOE, my recent encounter regarding Covid vaccine pretty much re-afirm my view of SOE. They might be far different field then shipyard but the culture and the way their Director conduct business is not much different then Soeharto era. Got the project - sell/ask private sector to do it - receive the fee - Publish the news that they were capable to do the job

It dont matter much doing IPO when Govt still own 51% of the share and have political power to push what they want. Ask Trans group who hold some share in Garuda on how its going for them. When regulator and operator riding on the same vehicle then it wont matter what others do or think, they just simply do what they want.

While govt is trying so hard to invite FDI, but the one that actually come and try to deal with our SOE received a slap on their face then we know we have serious issue. When someone came and willing to finance a project more then 90% of the actual cost but got refused to have Director of Finance slot and only given other slot such as HR or BusDev also deny any other director slot then we know that those in charge are trying so hard for "Cari Muka" more then trying to get the project running.

Well said indeed

But, this Eric Tohir guy move so far really mean business. Some of his move was bold and he is so far smart enough to balance the "kepentingan politik" surrounding SOE in-line with his strategic move. There are resistance but until now is still manageable. I can see the SOE starting to shine again and serve its purpose if he manage to stay put until his terms end. Until then I still stand my ground and say sell those non strategic, non PSO state own enterprise

At best Eric Tohir can only "cleaning up" the upper echelon but won't be able to do much if any on the corporate culture as a whole. Even with Eric Tohir serving full term to 2024, after he left office, the Soeharto style bureaucratic culture will kick back in and most likely with huge interest

 

[trishna_amrta]

Indonesia ofcourse should form a separate organization for defence research and fund them separately.

There are already such institutions albeit more general rather than defence related, but even that isn't exactly effective due to all the factors such as bureaucratic & corporate culture. Moreover, Indonesia education & industrial base isn't capable to provide the necessary expertise and industrial capability for it

 

[Anmdt]

I see that Turkey has many good private owned defense company. Do you think what is the reason behind that and I would ask whether they come from established businesses or not ?

One of Indonesia potential private owned defense company is CMI Technology which work in electronics and it include radar, but it is sad that they get corruption scandal when they want to get civilian project. I just see their good and modern looking website even cannot be accessed anymore..........


View attachment 8931

Dirut PT CMI Teknologi didakwa rugikan negara Rp63,829 miliar terkait korupsi pengadaan BCSS

Direktur Utama PT Compact Microwave Indonesia Teknologi (PT CMI Teknologi) Rahardjo Pratjihno didakwa merugikan keuangan negara senilai Rp63,829 miliar, karena melakukan korupsi ANTARA News kalteng kabar daerah ...

kalteng.antaranews.com

First drone manufacturer in Turkey was EES, a company established by Full transfer of technology (along with softwares and source codes) from a private israeli drone manufacturer.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745229081428525056

They weren't targeting a MALE, but the solutions they have introduced were supplying needs of Turkey and furthermore they had enough know-how to offer GNAT 750 -like MALE drone(requiring financing and collaboration) to Turkish Army.
Their facility was inspected several times, granted R&D project, later they were ignored and kept out of the tenders and acquisition process (call it anything, nobody truly knows but some people were fancying foreigner drones)
the company later has gone bankrupt.

Not all defense companies have grown with direct ToT from abroad, some of them have gained their abilities on their own, some has collaborated on projects with foreign partners, all of them were encouraged and financed as long as it was valuable and useful.

Also, beyond some point companies like TAI, Aselsan was bound to supply their needs from smaller companies, SSB (Defense industry presidency) has enforced a certain percentage of parts to be supplied from medium-small companies to grow an ecosystem which is crucial for later developments. These companies were also financed by projects to produce parts locally, or to conduct R&D on some needed parts-solutions.

I don't know about corruption but what i know it exists worldwide in different names.

I would ask whether they come from established businesses or not ?

Most of those large companies has roots in the past, some might have seen as recently established but even those had commercial production in related parts and upgraded themselves, or simply launched a new establishment to focus on defense products.
For small-medium companies i have explained above, again some has derived from commercial business with support from SSB, some were already suppliers for foreign partners, some had foreign partners which supported them in Turkey etc.

 

[Raptor]

There are already such institutions albeit more general rather than defence related, but even that isn't exactly effective due to all the factors such as bureaucratic & corporate culture. Moreover, Indonesia education & industrial base isn't capable to provide the necessary expertise and industrial capability for it

Corporatize it,DRDO too was considered as a failure 4-5 years back,but corporatization helped it perform better eventually.
It maybe not the best but does the job for India.

 

[Indos]

Corporatize it,DRDO too was considered as a failure 4-5 years back,but corporatization helped it perform better eventually.
It maybe not the best but does the job for India.

Do you mean selling some of their stake on capital market so they can get honest stake holder that really care on profit so that management will get more pressure to work harder, cleaner, and cleverer ? What do you mean with corporatization ?

 

[schuimpjes]

Do you mean selling some of their stake on capital market so they can get honest stake holder that really care on profit so that management will get more pressure to work harder, cleaner, and cleverer ? What do you mean with corporatization ?

No one ask me, but I agree with this.

 

[Gundala]

Who is the Vendor? PT. Lumindo, Delima Jaya or the TNI Workshop?

Thats pretty good area, infrastructure and work system for local company standard. I would like to know as well.

 

[Gundala]

Any one knows what it is all about ?? State owned defense company will try to create a holding and I think it may be intended to unite all of their research divisions under one umbrella

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339171811783712768

Umm...why does it sounds to me like they going to make education institute/sekolah/university?

 

[Raptor]

Do you mean selling some of their stake on capital market so they can get honest stake holder that really care on profit so that management will get more pressure to work harder, cleaner, and cleverer ? What do you mean with corporatization ?

Corporatization can be used to improve efficiency of public service delivery (with mixed successes).
Can also be said as 'partial privatization',in this case too the govt. has control.

 

[Indos]

Umm...why does it sounds to me like they going to make education institute/sekolah/university?

Making a university doesnt make sense IMO, there is no STEM university in the world with specialization in defense technology. We have already had UI, ITB, ITS where they also do some defense project. In ITB and UI for example, there is Phd program to learn nano particle composite for absorbent material which is very important for STEALTH technology. So why do we need to make a new one ?

From some explanation given on that PTDI twitter, it is said the institution is intended for some collaborative research.

 

[Gundala]

Making a university doesnt make sense IMO, there is no STEM university in the world with specialization in defense technology. We have already had UI, ITB, ITS where they also do some defense project. In ITB and UI for example, there is Phd program to learn nano particle composite for absorbent material which is very important for STEALTH technology. So why do we need to make a new one ?

From some explanation given on that PTDI twitter, it is said the institution is intended for some collaborative research.

Yeah I do agree, it doesnt make sense. Perhaps it kinda remind me of Institut Teknologi Telkom and business of high education system was good, not sure about now tho so I assume the habit of our SOE to diversify way out of its core is about to happen again here. But I hope Im wrong and if its true like madokafc said then it would be awesome to have all those inhan under one holding company and integrated R&D department.

 

[Anmdt]

Corporatization can be used to improve efficiency of public service delivery (with mixed successes).
Can also be said as 'partial privatization',in this case too the govt. has control.

Aside from company structure or profile, i more wonder about the budget.
Such an institute needs a nice budget, a budget allocated with no expectation on short term return.
Maybe it also can be a roof for labs and testing facilities (related to defense industry) owned by universities or companies, so these labs can get extra budgets or upgrades through this additional budget.
Who manages defense acquisition currently in Indonesia? Maybe a DAPA like organization might be useful to conduct tenders, organize contracts, manage ToT and etc while this instute manages who gets additional R&D funds.

 

[CountStrike]

NONE that I'm aware of. Even IF there is one, it's a small scale and extremely unlikely to be complex enough to require modern industrial scale lithography. Indonesia simply have ZERO expertise in the semiconductor field, not to mention completely lack the industrial capacity for it (unless you count smartcard as one)

maybe This company is considered as Semiconductor company where located in Bandung, West Java... I Know, the company is still small scale of chipset production. I heard my self when i attended Lecture from CEO of Xirka Chipset, Mrs Sylvia Sumarlin in University of Indonesia 2014 that Xirka Silicon is one of Huawei partner in SE Asia.

Home

Official website of Xirka Silicon Technology, the first and only one chipset company in Indonesia

www.xirkachipset.com

 

[trishna_amrta]

maybe This company is considered as Semiconductor company where located in Bandung, West Java... I Know, the company is still small scale of chipset production. I heard my self when i attended Lecture from CEO of Xirka Chipset, Mrs Sylvia Sumarlin in University of Indonesia 2014 that Xirka Silicon is one of Huawei partner in SE Asia.

Home

Official website of Xirka Silicon Technology, the first and only one chipset company in Indonesia

www.xirkachipset.com

LOL I was referring to something in industrial scale, meaning industrial scale capacity, expertise, and market demand NOT some run-of-the-mill chipset forge