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Ecderha

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The french 'Le Monde' see the french defence Industry Threaten't by Turkey's Advancements
What!?
french keep talking and they still talking that Turkiye is not able to produce anything without west.
Even more french keep saying that they gave to Turkiye parts that will be assembled as military product.

I mean french are biased no matter what. If they see Turkiye military product they automatically think that this is not possible to be build by Turks, it must be given by West. End of story
 

IC3M@N FX

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What!?
french keep talking and they still talking that Turkiye is not able to produce anything without west.
Even more french keep saying that they gave to Turkiye parts that will be assembled as military product.

I mean french are biased no matter what. If they see Turkiye military product they automatically think that this is not possible to be build by Turks, it must be given by West. End of story
And how is that supposed to happen? Nobody supplies us anymore, neither the EU nor the USA, except for total exceptions such as the GE F110 129 engine, and here too it is written in the stars whether we will be allowed to use it and build it under license 😂.
They must really be suffering from a blatant persecution complex.
 

Sanchez

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Reading translated news is always gamble. Reading translated opinion pieces without any context on twitter surely will lead you astray. I'm begging people, please always take these with few kilos of salt and always chase the actual piece. I'm trying to be lenient to Oğuzhan here, but it's hard to do. If you read the twitter version, you will think it's about the honhon Frenchies hating on the Turks. If you read the actual version, it's a simple overlay of the French MIC, future competitors and what could be done to alleviate the issues and there might be lessons in there for Turkish MIC to learn from as well.

Full piece. Translated to English with DeepL and underlined the parts I deem interesting.:
Defense: French industry threatened by new competitors
South Korea, Turkey and Israel are formidable competitors for the French military-industrial complex, which has some weaknesses despite its strengths and its rank as the world's third largest arms exporter.
By Jean-Michel Bezat Published yesterday at 4:17 p.m., modified at 12:44 a.m.
Reading Time 4 min.
France proudly displays the success of what is commonly called the defense industrial and technological base (BITD): 4,000 companies working for the armed forces, 450 of which are considered strategic and 600 export in the wake of the giants Airbus, Dassault Aviation, Nexter, Naval Group, MBDA, Thales or Safran.
Born in the 1960s from the Gaullist ambition for independence, it produces almost all military equipment, preventing land, naval and air forces from having to buy it “off the shelf” from the Americans and other Europeans.
This ambition has a weakness, inherent to France's status as a middle power: its armies offering a limited outlet, the BITD must export to survive.
And the Rafale weighs heavily with its Safran engines, its Thales electronics and its MBDA missiles: in 2022, the eighty Dassault combat aircraft sold to the United Arab Emirates represented two thirds of the 27 billion euros in exports from the country in this market, bringing it to third place in the world in 2022, behind the United States and Russia. Read also: Article reserved for our subscribers “The sale of Rafale to Saudi Arabia would be a success by default for the tricolor aircraft in the ruthless competition from arms dealers”
France is single-product. Without the Rafale, it would be marginalized,” notes Marc Chassillan, arms engineer and defense consultant. In decline in Europe, it is also increasingly dependent on countries in the Middle East. It struggles to sell frigates and submarines in a very competitive market. Its manufacturers have abandoned infantry equipment and no longer produce Leclerc tanks, an export failure. The Jaguar and Griffon armored vehicles, designed more for asymmetric conflicts (Afghanistan, Sahel, etc.), have only found a buyer in Belgium thanks to close military cooperation between Paris and Brussels. Although the Caesar cannon is in high demand, Nexter cannot meet all requests.


A “plethoric offer”
In land weapons, “the global supply has become plethoric,” recalls Mr. Chassillan. Second-tier exporters are pointing the end of the barrel (United Arab Emirates, Brazil, South Africa, Egypt, etc.), but the historic heavyweights of the defense market are worried about more formidable competitors: South Korea, Turkey and Israel. “[These players] benefit from an upgrade of their products and uninhibited export control,” underlines the government’s 2023 report to Parliament on arms exports, while “intra-European competition does not weaken ". Read also: Article reserved for our subscribers The Caesar cannons, showcase of the war economy
When Poland ordered 1,000 K2 tanks, 500 K9 howitzers, hundreds of missiles and fifty FA-50 planes from South Korea in 2022, the industrialists of the Old Continent were surprised, without being able to respond. Neither the German Krauss-Maffei Wegmann nor the American General Dynamics were capable of delivering so many tanks, Leopard 2 and Abrams respectively. No more than Nexter Caesar or Airbus dozens of Eurofighter planes. In a Europe which had ruled out the scenario of a high-intensity conflict for thirty years, industrial resources have atrophied.
South Korean industrialist Hanwha recalls that his country has been “ready for war” since the 1953 armistice with North Korea, seventy years of the Cold War when it was able to develop an arms industry. in the service of his conscription army, before setting out to conquer foreign markets with powerful state support. Seoul supplies equipment meeting NATO standards at competitive prices.

When you can have two K2s for the price of a Leopard 2, the choice is quickly made, summarizes Mr. Chassillan. In 31st place among exporters in 2000, South Korea occupied 9th in 2022, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, and it is aiming for 4th in 2027. Read also: Article reserved for our Defense subscribers: “order books full, but arms sales which did not follow in 2022 »
This export ambition is shared by Turkey [12th world exporter in 2022], notes Léo Péria-Peigné, researcher at the French Institute of International Relations (IFRI), who is preparing a book on the geopolitics of armaments. The constitution of a BITD is a strategic sovereignty issue for Ankara too. The country also produces a lot for its mass army. Export guarantees him profitability, and he also wants to bite into the European market, like South Korea. »


An “exceptional contract raid”
Israel and its high-tech BITD also benefit from global rearmament. “It made an exceptional raid of contracts in 2023 and will gain several places in the world ranking”, of which it occupied 10th place in 2022, calculates Mr. Chassillan.
The Hebrew State notably sells its 155 mm Atmos howitzer, remotely operated turrets, anti-tank missiles, anti-aircraft systems (sold to equip the German “shield”) or active protection of armored vehicles.
France retains its strong points: missiles, observation satellites, etc. Thales, which has just been strengthened by the acquisition of the American Imperva, remains a reference in cyber activities, and especially radars. The new entrants have also not reached the level of the Americans and Europeans in the motorization of combat aircraft. But France is lagging enormously behind in drones, in which Dassault and the general staff have long lost interest, while Turkey offers a complete range. Also read the interview: Article reserved for our subscribers François Lecointre, former chief of staff of the armed forces: “Naively, our societies thought that war was now archaic”
The general armaments delegation of the Ministry of the Armed Forces also admits that France has missed the “offset”, these compensations in local production and technology transfers. It has long favored employment on the national territory and has been reluctant to transfer knowledge to foreign clients, even though these concessions had become a necessary step to land large contracts.
Warsaw saw in the agreement with Seoul “the culmination of cooperation built over many years” by two countries worried about a withdrawal of the American protective umbrella. “It’s a win-win operation,” underlines Renaud Bellais, co-director of the Defense Observatory of the Jean Jaurès Foundation. Poland wants fast deliveries and local production; South Korea can draw on its enormous arms stocks and internationalize its industry. »


Delivery schedule
France has been evolving its doctrine for several years. Like the Americans' Foreign Military Sales, "a new logic of state-to-state strategic partnership is being put in place", with military, diplomatic and economic dimensions. , underlines Mr. Péria-Peigné, citing Greece, India and the United Arab Emirates. It must make it possible to structure a long-term offer to sell several types of weapons to the same country (planes, helicopters, frigates, satellites, etc.), while remaining at the cutting edge of technology. “France will remain in the lead with a new range of equipment,” judges the IFRI researcher. Also read the report: Article reserved for our subscribers With its new drone school, the army wants to increase the number of operators within the regiments
The Russo-Ukrainian war brought to light a new, increasingly strong constraint: the delivery schedule and the availability of materials. “They tend to become central criteria” in the negotiation of contracts, repeats the Minister of the Armed Forces, Sébastien Lecornu, to manufacturers.
Because the risk of marginalization is real. Of the 100 billion euros of arms purchases from European Union countries concluded between the start of the conflict in Ukraine and the summer of 2023, 78% were made to non-European manufacturers, with the Americans scooping them up. 63%, calculated Jean-Pierre Maulny, deputy director of the Institute of International and Strategic Relations; of the 22% remaining to the Europeans, Paris only won 12%, or 2.5 billion euros.
Jean-Michel Bezat
https://www.reddit.com/r/france/comments/191gxgk
 

Ecderha

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And how is that supposed to happen? Nobody supplies us anymore, neither the EU nor the USA, except for total exceptions such as the GE F110 129 engine, and here too it is written in the stars whether we will be allowed to use it and build it under license 😂.
They must really be suffering from a blatant persecution complex.
"how is that supposed to happen?"
That is the main thing which Turkiye responsible people and strategics are doing.
Finding solution with any available opportunity out there.
Finding solution by consulting with own military companies, create plan and build it own.
etc.
It is hard work, taking time and it is better solution than "wet dreams" and believe on allies
 

IC3M@N FX

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"how is that supposed to happen?"
That is the main thing which Turkiye responsible people and strategics are doing.
Finding solution with any available opportunity out there.
Finding solution by consulting with own military companies, create plan and build it own.
etc.
It is hard work, taking time and it is better solution than "wet dreams" and believe on allies
You have misunderstood something, it was about what the French mean or think.
That Turkey's current weapons technology is produced with the help of the EU and the USA.
Which is totally wrong, otherwise they would have access to almost all goods, at the moment they have almost no access.

As you have noticed from the previous poster, the Twitter post was probably very lurid and mistranslated, whether deliberately or accidentally everyone should decide for themselves.

But let's still assume that what the French claim is true, it would still be wrong, nobody supplies us with military technology anymore, let it be highly sensitive components or weapons technology as a package.
 

Fuzuli NL

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Let's pedal back slowly to reality please. France's defence industry being "threatened" by Turkish defence industry is a little distorted information IMO.
The threat that is mentioned is not due to technological advances Türkiye has gained so rapidly, well maybe partly, but it is in fact due to the African market which is starting to distance itself from French influence including defence purchases.
Their alternatives are mainly China and Türkiye, the latter being more "western" and probably more sophisticated when it comes to drones.
Let's not forget that Dassault is one of the most successful aircraft producers in the world, apaer from their missile tech, armoured vehicles, engine tech etc.
But Turkish defence products have gained popularity lately in many battlefields which have naturally attracted many potential costumers. And since the price tag is usually a fifth or less with their French equivalents, then countries with limited budgets opt for the pest option economically and sometimes politically.

This is probably causing a dent in the sales for France's defence industry products, but let's not get carried away just yet. We're still not near anything France had already achieved decades ago, especially in aviation matters.
 

IC3M@N FX

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Let's pedal back slowly to reality please. France's defence industry being "threatened" by Turkish defence industry is a little distorted information IMO.
The threat that is mentioned is not due to technological advances Türkiye has gained so rapidly, well maybe partly, but it is in fact due to the African market which is starting to distance itself from French influence including defence purchases.
Their alternatives are mainly China and Türkiye, the latter being more "western" and probably more sophisticated when it comes to drones.
Let's not forget that Dassault is one of the most successful aircraft producers in the world, apaer from their missile tech, armoured vehicles, engine tech etc.
But Turkish defence products have gained popularity lately in many battlefields which have naturally attracted many potential costumers. And since the price tag is usually a fifth or less with their French equivalents, then countries with limited budgets opt for the pest option economically and sometimes politically.

This is probably causing a dent in the sales for France's defence industry products, but let's not get carried away just yet. We're still not near anything France had already achieved decades ago, especially in aviation matters.
Absolutely right and that is also the core of the conflict between France and Turkey.
France is afraid of losing its interests in Africa, but this has less to do with Turkey and its allegedly aggressive behavior in the new markets in Africa.
Rather, France has gambled away a lot in Africa; as an ex-colonial power, it has a difficult position in Africa, and this is largely its own fault.
France should also take a good look at itself and engage in self-reflection.
 

Ecderha

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You have misunderstood something, it was about what the French mean or think.
That Turkey's current weapons technology is produced with the help of the EU and the USA.
Which is totally wrong, otherwise they would have access to almost all goods, at the moment they have almost no access.

As you have noticed from the previous poster, the Twitter post was probably very lurid and mistranslated, whether deliberately or accidentally everyone should decide for themselves.

But let's still assume that what the French claim is true, it would still be wrong, nobody supplies us with military technology anymore, let it be highly sensitive components or weapons technology as a package.

I did understand you correctly!
I try to point that -> No matter what french media or french person write a new news article about Turkiye.
If this article is not aligned with biased news about Turkiye -> like Turkiye is underdeveloped and rely on french or west, bla bla bla etc.
Then this article is trash, nobody from french do not want to believe about Turkiye producing own products.

People of west were systematically feed with fabricate news showing that Turkiye is the bad guy. They systemtically did many campaings aginst Turkiye that west people by default they are aready biased. They hate, do not respest, do not want to understand, use any opportinuty to hit Turkiye for anything.
 

Cabatli_TR

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TOGG T10F Fastback Sedan model introduced in CES2024

20240109_230401.jpg
20240109_230400.jpg
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20240109_230407.jpg
 

Huelague

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You can see how mendacious Europe is, and this is not due to the democratic deficits that Turkey is accused of.
It's because you simply don't dance to their tune.

Backbone has really become a foreign word today.
As H. Fidan stated, EU see us as a rival than a partner.
 

Angry Turk !!!

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Yes, I think it would sell everywhere in the world... but still, it's as if that sedan they first introduced a few years ago was more charismatic!? is't maybe the chage on the front grille?
Anyway a cool design at all!
I liked the first desing more as well. But this one looks good too.
 

Baryshx

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Yes, I think it would sell everywhere in the world... but still, it's as if that sedan they first introduced a few years ago was more charismatic!? is't maybe the chage on the front grille?
Anyway a cool design at all!
It sounds like changes related to the wind resistance coefficient.
 
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DBdev

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Is it too much to ask for a CHEAP chinese style iron based battery, small FSD Turkish electric car?
Most of a car's cost is battery. $4000 -$20.000. So cheaper the battery, the better.

Where is our Turkish, cheap, basic FSD car for mostly inner city commute?

Most people hate, HATE driving in traffic. Lose the steering wheel already.
We just want to go from point A to B cheaply and without any danger to our lives. That's all.

We don't even NEED to own a car.
Electric robotaxis are better for safety, enviroment and economy.
Most cars wait in workplace parking lots from 9 to 5 and then wait at home.

Huge amount of waste of several layers!
 
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YeşilVatan

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Is it too much to ask for a CHEAP chinese style iron based battery, small FSD Turkish electric car?
Most of a car's cost is battery. $4000 -$20.000. So cheaper the battery, the better.

Where is our Turkish, cheap, basic FSD car for mostly inner city commute?

Most people hate, HATE driving in traffic. Lose the steering wheel already.
We just want to go from point A to B cheaply and without any danger to our lives. That's all.

We don't even NEED to own a car.
Electric robotaxis are better for safety, enviroment and economy.
Most cars wait in workplace parking lots from 9 to 5 and then wait at home.

Huge amount of waste of several layers!
Lemme blow your mind; elevated monorails and AI directed traffic. This would seriously solve A LOT of issues.
 

DBdev

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Lemme blow your mind; elevated monorails and AI directed traffic. This would seriously solve A LOT of issues.
Robotaxis have infinite combinations of point A to B, not just a few like rail systems. Maglev trains are a comfortable, super fast, safe choice for intercity travel but initial investment costs are massive. Even America can't afford a network of Maglevs. Flying taxis could be best option of them all for travel between big cities but not for inner-city because of the noise issue. I envision an end to all car ownership and even huge government spendings for intercity roads, tunnels, bridges etc. Rail systems could still exist for heavy cargo. Robotaxis to go to work and electric flying taxis, eVTOLs for faster travel between the cities over sparsely populated countryside.
Here they are pitching it for inner city but I am not yet convinced noise wont be disturbing when its scaled up.


 
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DBdev

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I just asked Compose AI chrome extension about our future with robotaxis & eVtols. This is the AI response:

1. Shared Mobility: Robotaxis can revolutionize our transportation system by enabling autonomous, on-demand taxi services. Rather than owning a car, people can simply hail a robotaxi using a mobile app, reducing the need for personal vehicles and maximizing the efficiency of transportation networks.

2. Environmental Benefits: Electric Vertical Take-off and Landing (eVTOL) vehicles, which are electrically powered flying taxis, have the potential to reduce our carbon footprint. With their electric propulsion systems, these aircraft produce zero direct emissions, contributing to cleaner and greener urban transport.

3. Urban Commuting: Robotaxis and eVTOLs can address the issue of traffic congestion in cities. With their ability to operate autonomously and take advantage of aerial routes, they can bypass congested roads and take passengers to their destinations in a more rapid and efficient manner, reducing travel time for commuters.

4. Accessibility and Inclusivity: Autonomous robotaxis and eVTOLs can help individuals with disabilities or limited mobility by providing a convenient and affordable means of transportation. These vehicles can be specially designed to accommodate wheelchairs or other accessibility requirements, making transportation more inclusive for everyone.

5. Emergency Medical Services: eVTOLs can be utilized for emergency medical services, particularly in hard-to-reach areas or during times of traffic congestion. These aircraft can transport medical professionals, equipment, and even patients quickly, minimizing response times and potentially saving lives.

6. Tourism and Sightseeing: eVTOLs can offer an exhilarating way to explore famous landmarks and scenic areas from the sky, providing tourists with a unique and memorable experience. Such aircraft can be used for aerial tours, providing stunning panoramic views while reducing environmental impacts compared to traditional helicopters.

7. Last-Mile Delivery: In addition to passenger transportation, robotaxis and eVTOLs can also serve as efficient platforms for last-mile delivery. They can deliver packages and goods directly to people's doorsteps, optimizing logistics and reducing the reliance on traditional ground-based delivery methods.

Overall, the future of robotaxis and eVTOLs holds enormous potential to transform transportation, making it more sustainable, accessible, and convenient for everyone.
 

Zafer

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I just asked Compose AI chrome extension about our future with robotaxis & eVtols. This is the AI response:

1. Shared Mobility: Robotaxis can revolutionize our transportation system by enabling autonomous, on-demand taxi services. Rather than owning a car, people can simply hail a robotaxi using a mobile app, reducing the need for personal vehicles and maximizing the efficiency of transportation networks.

2. Environmental Benefits: Electric Vertical Take-off and Landing (eVTOL) vehicles, which are electrically powered flying taxis, have the potential to reduce our carbon footprint. With their electric propulsion systems, these aircraft produce zero direct emissions, contributing to cleaner and greener urban transport.

3. Urban Commuting: Robotaxis and eVTOLs can address the issue of traffic congestion in cities. With their ability to operate autonomously and take advantage of aerial routes, they can bypass congested roads and take passengers to their destinations in a more rapid and efficient manner, reducing travel time for commuters.

4. Accessibility and Inclusivity: Autonomous robotaxis and eVTOLs can help individuals with disabilities or limited mobility by providing a convenient and affordable means of transportation. These vehicles can be specially designed to accommodate wheelchairs or other accessibility requirements, making transportation more inclusive for everyone.

5. Emergency Medical Services: eVTOLs can be utilized for emergency medical services, particularly in hard-to-reach areas or during times of traffic congestion. These aircraft can transport medical professionals, equipment, and even patients quickly, minimizing response times and potentially saving lives.

6. Tourism and Sightseeing: eVTOLs can offer an exhilarating way to explore famous landmarks and scenic areas from the sky, providing tourists with a unique and memorable experience. Such aircraft can be used for aerial tours, providing stunning panoramic views while reducing environmental impacts compared to traditional helicopters.

7. Last-Mile Delivery: In addition to passenger transportation, robotaxis and eVTOLs can also serve as efficient platforms for last-mile delivery. They can deliver packages and goods directly to people's doorsteps, optimizing logistics and reducing the reliance on traditional ground-based delivery methods.

Overall, the future of robotaxis and eVTOLs holds enormous potential to transform transportation, making it more sustainable, accessible, and convenient for everyone.
Only if they work well will self driving taxis and eVTOLs do a good job to supplement mainstream mobility options. eVTOLs will be expensive and cumbersome as they still need a first and last mile solution to be useful.
 
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