Indonesia Infrastructure Program and Progress

[Madokafc]

Balang Island Bridge at East Kalimantan province had been completed

 

[Indos]

Bridge connecting Batam island and Bintan island has been started being constructed (3 Desember 2020)

These islands are located next to Singapore. Bintan is relatively still empty and mostly used for tourism sector

Bintan island

Batam island has already been populated although still has large empty space for further industrialization.

 

[Gary]

Despite some hype that Batam would be developed to overtake it's neighboring city state, I don't think Batam will even be close to match SG. Not in a decade or two.

There's a lot of factors and issues that needs to be addressed first.

 

[Madokafc]

Bridge connecting Batam island and Bintan island has been started being constructed (3 Desember 2020)

These islands are located next to Singapore. Bintan is relatively still empty and mostly used for tourism sector

Bintan island

Batam island has already been populated although still has large empty space for further industrialization.

Batam need to preserve some area for water reservation purpose and land ecosystem as they are small island with limited capacity and quite far from main Sumatera Island and instead more closer with Malaya peninsula and Singapore. That's why they want to spread out burden of industrial area into Bintan Island.

 

[Madokafc]

Despite some hype that Batam would be developed to overtake it's neighboring city state, I don't think Batam will even be close to match SG. Not in a decade or two.

There's a lot of factors and issues that needs to be addressed first.

The only city who can match Singapore in Indonesia toe to toe is Jakarta and the one who get chance in near future is Surabaya, the rest is too far behind.

 

[Indos]

Despite some hype that Batam would be developed to overtake it's neighboring city state, I don't think Batam will even be close to match SG. Not in a decade or two.

There's a lot of factors and issues that needs to be addressed first.

True, but at least it can be like Sumatra other economic engine. It will likely to get some spill over from Singapore industrialization since that tiny city has already used almost of their land.

 

[Madokafc]

True, but at least it can be like Sumatra other economic engine. It will likely to get some spill over from Singapore industrialization since that tiny city has already used almost of their land.

I doubt that as Batam itself had very limited land capacity too and Singapore economy is not much depend on large scale and worker intensive manufacturing industry but high value added industry and financial industry, instead Singapore Investment mostly going toward Jakarta and West Java as they can get more cheaper production costs, stable supply of skilled worker , better infrastructure as a whole and large industrial estate with many incentive toward Investment.

 

[Indos]

I doubt that as Batam itself had very limited land capacity too and Singapore economy is not much depend on large scale and worker intensive manufacturing industry but high value added industry and financial industry, instead Singapore Investment mostly going toward Jakarta and West Java as they can get more cheaper production costs, stable supply of skilled worker , better infrastructure as a whole and large industrial estate with many incentive toward Investment.

MRO business for plane is very potential in Bintan considering the location near Singapore as a hub in South East Asia.

This one is already investing in Bintan

 

[Indos]

Riau islands province. Bintan.

New airport for Tambelan island

 

[ekemenirtu]

Despite some hype that Batam would be developed to overtake it's neighboring city state, I don't think Batam will even be close to match SG. Not in a decade or two.

There's a lot of factors and issues that needs to be addressed first.

I wonder, what indicators would you use for that purpose?

It's been a long time since I last visited there. Some of my friends still work there and from what I have been told, Singapore is no longer a stand out performer in the region and has become somewhat of a laggard. Not sure how much of that is true.

Has Singapore really declined that much?

 

[ekemenirtu]

The only city who can match Singapore in Indonesia toe to toe is Jakarta and the one who get chance in near future is Surabaya, the rest is too far behind.

I wonder what indicators you would use for that purpose.

Has Singapore declined that much in recent years?

 

[Gary]

I wonder, what indicators would you use for that purpose?

It's been a long time since I last visited there. Some of my friends still work there and from what I have been told, Singapore is no longer a stand out performer in the region and has become somewhat of a laggard. Not sure how much of that is true.

Has Singapore really declined that much?

No Singapore has not declined as a port city, it's holds it's ground even against emerging giant ports in China.

There's been a decline in business as much expats are leaving the country as a result of the pandemic.

What I mean is there are issues that Batam (and Indonesia as a whole) need to address if we want to replicate SG success..

 

[Madokafc]

I wonder what indicators you would use for that purpose.

Has Singapore declined that much in recent years?

Singapore Development scope is already limited and almost reached the highest cap of what city states with limited population can reach, unlike Jakarta and Surabaya who had large chance to be developed further more. Jakarta with 10 million people had nominal GRP is around 200 Billion US Dollar, Surabaya with 3 million people had GRP around 41 Billion US Dollar. There is much chance for both Cities to develop further more without being restrained much by limited land area and pool of human resource.

 

[ekemenirtu]

Singapore Development scope is already limited and almost reached the highest cap of what city states with limited population can reach, unlike Jakarta and Surabaya who had large chance to be developed further more. Jakarta with 10 million people had nominal GRP is around 200 Billion US Dollar, Surabaya with 3 million people had GRP around 41 Billion US Dollar. There is much chance for both Cities to develop further more without being restrained much by limited land area and pool of human resource.

Your indicator of interest, therefore, is GDP.

That may be a flawed measure for numerous reasons.

In any case, Jakarta still can not measure up to Singapore in total GDP despite a considerably bigger population.

In GDP per capita, Singapore still leads Jakarta by a very comfortable margin. Irrespective of whether you use market exchange rate or purchasing power parity indices.

It is also doubtful if Jakarta city proper with 10 million people generates 200 billion USD worth of economic activity a year.

It's far more likely that Greater Jakarta housing more than 30 million people generates 200 billion USD worth of economic activity a year.

Do you have any official statistics for Jakarta city proper that houses 10 million people and how much in GDP or GRP it generates in a year?

In any case, GDP is a very limited indicator and of limited utility. There are various other facets of life not captured adequately by this index.

 

[Madokafc]

Your indicator of interest, therefore, is GDP.

That may be a flawed measure for numerous reasons.

In any case, Jakarta still can not measure up to Singapore in total GDP despite a considerably bigger population.

In GDP per capita, Singapore still leads Jakarta by a very comfortable margin. Irrespective of whether you use market exchange rate or purchasing power parity indices.

It is also doubtful if Jakarta city proper with 10 million people generates 200 billion USD worth of economic activity a year.

It's far more likely that Greater Jakarta housing more than 30 million people generates 200 billion USD worth of economic activity a year.

Do you have any official statistics for Jakarta city proper that houses 10 million people and how much in GDP or GRP it generates in a year?

In any case, GDP is a very limited indicator and of limited utility. There are various other facets of life not captured adequately by this index.

That's captured by BPS data per 2020 publication not quoted by my random idea though, you can download it here. And of i mention it with PPP, Jakarta had 660 Billion US Dollar GRP, but that's not do as i only usually quoted Nominal value in US Dollar for easy comparison

Statistik Indonesia 2020

Statistik Indonesia 2020 merupakan seri publikasi tahunan BPS yang menyajikan beragam jenis data yang bersumber dari BPS dan institusi lain....

www.bps.go.id

If it is GDP for greater Jakarta that's would be around 290 Billion US Dollar. As i mention before, Jakarta is burgeoning city, growing at stable rates five to six percentage per year before Covid19 Cases and had very nice prospect to growing into more developed city at Singapore level of today in near future.

Jakarta HDI itself also growing with stable rates at .807 indexes which means very developed but not yet reach the highest ceilling caps she can reach. Singapore Development as i said is already very well developed with HDI at .918 indexes and had almost reached the highest ceilling caps any city states country can reach with their current condition any further their only aims can only be to reach at level of prosperity at Scandinavian level.

 

[Kafkaesque]

Singapore is great, but eventually, when / if Indonesia (and to some extent, Malaysia) becomes better, they will go down.

I repeat, they are great, and they do deserve it, but frankly they got rich by "leeching off" of Indonesia. They got rich because they are being smart while Indonesia is being stupid.

Once, Singapore (population 5 million), is the 14 / 15 biggest importer / exporter in the world. The reason, because Singapore's port is acting as the gate to Indonesia (which at that time didn't have the port that is big / deep enough to accommodate huge, trans-continent container ships).

Thanks to their great financial foundation (sophisticated systems, pro-investor and trusted law etc), companies are opening and put their head office in Singapore, with factories / plantation in Indonesia.

World class hospitals, clean and organized city etc, make the rich Indonesians go to Singapore when they are sick and purchasing apartments in Singapore, whether for place to stay while they are shopping (only 1 hour of flight from Jakarta) or "just in case".

That covers all the primary incomes of Singapore, from port / trade, financial to tourism / properties. So, when / if Indonesia gets better, they better have other source of income or they will lose a huge part of their economy.

 

[Nilgiri]

The only city who can match Singapore in Indonesia toe to toe is Jakarta and the one who get chance in near future is Surabaya, the rest is too far behind.

Agree 100%. The larger idea is for Java to replicate Honshu as best it can manage.

Jakarta area serve like Kanto and surabaya is like Kansai. You even have volcanoes dotting landscape in interior just the same and the rich fertile flat land marking the coastline area....and other cities in between (I guess Semarang can be like Nagoya).

These areas have the real population bulk and human capital for Indonesia to invest and add productivity.

In Honshu I have been to Tokyo, Nagoya. Kyoto mostly actually... but I also did few train trips to see some of the country too. In Java I been only to Jakarta, but I plan to do a countryside travel there at some point.

 

[Indos]

Agree 100%. The larger idea is for Java to replicate Honshu as best it can manage.

Jakarta area serve like Kanto and surabaya is like Kansai. You even have volcanoes dotting landscape in interior just the same and the rich fertile flat land marking the coastline area....and other cities in between (I guess Semarang can be like Nagoya).

These areas have the real population bulk and human capital for Indonesia to invest and add productivity.

In Honshu I have been to Tokyo, Nagoya. Kyoto mostly actually... but I also did few train trips to see some of the country too. In Java I been only to Jakarta, but I plan to do a countryside travel there at some point.

Business district in Jakarta has already been like Singapore and the economy of Jakarta also is like Singapore who rely on service sector and become the place for businesses headquarters. Singapore get so many MNC who put their regional headquarter in Singapore. In the future I hope it will be Jakarta that could be regional hub for MNC.

Jakarta

Jakarta Business District

West Java local Government tries to build 13 new cities that will host many new industrial zone around the area. They get more appealing after the construction of Patimban port that is expected to rival Jakarta port (Tanjung Priok) in the coming 6-8 years to come (base on current plant).

Patimban port access road (just look on the potential vast land around it)

 

[Nilgiri]

Business district in Jakarta has already been like Singapore and the economy of Jakarta also is like Singapore who rely on service sector and become the place for businesses headquarters. Singapore get so many MNC who put their regional headquarter in Singapore. In the future I hope it will be Jakarta that could be regional hub for MNC.

Jakarta

Jakarta Business District

West Java local Government tries to build 13 new cities that will host many new industrial zone around the area. They get more appealing after the construction of Patimban port that will rival Jakarta port (Tanjung Priok) in the coming 6-8 years to come (base on current plant).

Patimban port access road (just look on the potential vast land around it)

Yes I agree and I can show similar for India and other countries too.

The issue is the human capital investing (intensity) during period 1950 - 1990.

India did cursory amount of it (relative to population and population growth) due to cold war + socialist ideology (i.e inner markets, bureaucratic state push and reluctance to trade + invest externally through corporates) among other reasons.

Indonesia did only so much as well, as it found natural resources easier route to develop and harness (under Suharto rule, Sukarno time before it was lot more chaotic).

Singapore (and East Asian tigers in general) had no such thing to get stuck on, especially with its ejection from Malaysia. It had only one route to develop and get rich: its people. Thus the exports during this period needed human value input....and the model focused around the biggest markets of its time (Western developed markets who also wanted to promote ideology of free market too so it was win win). I will talk about this more for you and others in the SK thread we started (once I find a little more time, I might just do a large diagram).

With large population countries now (1990 on onwards especially), we play catch up realising human capital is the key in the end, no easy way past it, everything else is just extra on top (natural resources etc). So its a matter of making as many of our people competitive at all rungs of economic ladder (from corporate thinking to labour training)....giving them knowhow, resources and opportunities.

Logistics, construction, townships, city infra etc is all important, but they cannot be done solely....it has to be done with cognisance of human productivity to stay balanced and not be outside your means etc....and over time you build up and leverage more for yourself etc. Growth must be sustainable, organic and fiscally sound as possible.

 

[Madokafc]

Yes I agree and I can show similar for India and other countries too.

The issue is the human capital investing (intensity) during period 1950 - 1990.

India did cursory amount of it (relative to population and population growth) due to cold war + socialist ideology (i.e inner markets, bureaucratic state push and reluctance to trade + invest externally through corporates) among other reasons.

Indonesia did only so much as well, as it found natural resources easier route to develop and harness (under Suharto rule, Sukarno time before it was lot more chaotic).

Singapore (and East Asian tigers in general) had no such thing to get stuck on, especially with its ejection from Malaysia. It had only one route to develop and get rich: its people. Thus the exports during this period needed human value input....and the model focused around the biggest markets of its time (Western developed markets who also wanted to promote ideology of free market too so it was win win). I will talk about this more for you and others in the SK thread we started (once I find a little more time, I might just do a large diagram).

With large population countries now (1990 on onwards especially), we play catch up realising human capital is the key in the end, no easy way past it, everything else is just extra on top (natural resources etc). So its a matter of making as many of our people competitive at all rungs of economic ladder (from corporate thinking to labour training)....giving them knowhow, resources and opportunities.

Logistics, construction, townships, city infra etc is all important, but they cannot be done solely....it has to be done with cognisance of human productivity to stay balanced and not be outside your means etc....and over time you build up and leverage more for yourself etc. Growth must be sustainable, organic and fiscally sound as possible.

Jakarta Capital index is growing up at good pace lately post Soeharto rules, as the Municipal and Central Government investing more on Human Resources Development including giving access toward basic and secondary treatment in Healthcare and promote Universal Education with better access for people to reach any stages of Education. Thus giving impetus toward better quality of live and rising burgeoning middle class (especially youth millenials) among Jakarta population. One tend to forget, Jakarta population is mostly at working ages and quite young (in 2020 Jakarta median age is 29.2) with had good entrepreneur aspirations among them.

Thus compared Jakarta to Singapore who had limited scope as their resources is very narrow and limited (especially lands and human resource as a core elements of a country) and now most of the working ages of Lee Kuan Yew era had reaching their pension ages (with median age around 42.2) , and further limited their option to growing further.