Casual Discussion International Lounge

[Null/Void]

Another blast from the past @Yankeestani nearly 40 years ago or about 1980. Me and my younger siblings.

View attachment 1516

1980- A young Indus studying to be a barrister while thinking in his mind catching the latest episode of Benny Hill on ITV

40 years later shows the pic to the rest of the world

I am feeling nostaligic and rather sad. We have had nothing lesss than a Ottoman style war of succesion in the family to carve out my dad's estate. It's almost over but I lost all my family. My mum, my brothers/sisters except one. Sadly there is never going to be peace or reconciliation between us. I can't pretend it does not hurt but it was the way it was. When I look at these old photos I can't believe how things went. Life ....

Ouch

Honestly I am impressed. And not bragging but I have been brought up in UK, travelled all over Europe, North America, Far East, including even what was Soviet Union, Pakistan. So I am not some country bumpkin who sees the first lights and goes star crazy !

Grrr too bad I can't visit the USSR,Yugoslavia or GDR as they don't exist anymore but they are pieces still Transnistria and Belarus hopefully Lukashenko kicks the Maidan scum out

But before I go Pakistan is a funny old place. When I put that question to the bunch I was with non could answer me. However one of the guys says "okay then I am off to my spot, who wants to join me to celebrate seeing that this mate of ours from UK thinks it's the right thing to do".

And what was that. A spot on a hill where they kept contraband alcohol. Regularlly they gathered there and got drunk. As a teetoller I gave that a miss. And off they went. Next day all would be doing their five prayers like the pious do ... hahaha.

Absolutely haram

 

[Yoyo]

We as human beings are hard wired to compete, to fight, to win or to gain ascendancy. Losing is not in our make.

Bro, whatever floats your boat. If fighting and then getting all pissed off about its consequences is your gig, than have at it. The more the merrier.
Personally, I'm a man of simple taste. I don't have to drive a $80K SUV or pocket the latest iPhone. If I've got a line and stick to fish with and clothes to cover my hairy Turkish ass, I'm happy. I'm against excessive possessions because what I own usually ends up owning me. In the end we all become dirt.

 

[Null/Void]

Bro, whatever floats your boat. If fighting and then getting all pissed off about its consequences is your gig, than have at it. The more the merrier.
Personally, I'm a man of simple taste. I don't have to drive a $80K SUV or pocket the latest iPhone. If I've got a line and stick to fish with and clothes to cover my hairy Turkish ass, I'm happy. I'm against excessive possessions because what I own usually ends up owning me. In the end we all become dirt.

Yummy black sea fish

 

[Null/Void]

Well at least you will be contented with driving a Tofas Sahin,or Fiat Tempra

 

[Kaptaan]

f I've got a line and stick to fish with and clothes to cover my hairy Turkish ass, I'm happy.

Hahahaha, I am afraid I fell for the western consumerist culture. Expensive everything is my gig. This is the only life and thus all the more important to extract as much out of it.

 

[Yoyo]

Hahahaha, I am afraid I fell for the western consumerist culture. Expensive everything is my gig. This is the only life and thus all the more important to extract as much out of it.

Uuukay.

 

[Null/Void]

Hahahaha, I am afraid I fell for the western consumerist culture. Expensive everything is my gig. This is the only life and thus all the more important to extract as much out of it.

Bogouise Decadent lifestyle time to send the red guards

 

[Ryder]

Futurism does not exist in Islam, an Islamist would say.

Islamism failed especially regarding on whats going on in the future.

 

[Null/Void]

Islamism failed especially regarding on whats going on in the future.

Exception is the Islamic Republic of Iran but I think it's because of their mixture of Iranian Nationalism

 

[Zafer]

A short movie about a rotor tired of its life.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300745610774052864

Sounds like ~320 rpm.

 

[Ryder]

Exception is the Islamic Republic of Iran but I think it's because of their mixture of Iranian Nationalism

Islamists touted that they were the future they told the Muslim youth they will get rid of corruption, bring economic prosperity and education which the secular system failed. But what happened they continued the same old corrupt system leaving many disallusioned.

Then they wonder why the youth do not want them.

Seriously Turkey and Indonesia got it right to be honest at least the Islamists there are moderate try to participate in the political system rather making some deluded promises at least try to reach to anybody.

Muslim brotherhood failed hard because they live with the 1960s and 1970s mentality that Oppressive Pan Arabists are ruling that they are the future. What good is religion for people when there is no education and economic prosperity. Instead you have oppression and poverty. Then religious leaders justify it by saying it makes you close to God.

Seriously even if the Muslims brought back any empire regardless of the Ottomans, Mughals, Timurids when the same old continues???


I feel like us Muslims need to question ourselves a lot then wonder why a Muslim countries are in this state. A lot of Muslim countries dont have to be like Turkey they should try to aspire to be like it if not balance religion and secularism.

Secularism does not mean liberalism or progressivism or we have to copy the west in everything.

 

[Saithan]

The best that can be done is keep islam out of politics. Allow it to be what we're saying it is. a religion of peace.

But let's not forget that MAN isn't free of taint, or fallible, so we drag what we can through mud and dirt.

Turkey has had a much higher GDP and PPP, but it's been going down steadily the past 7 years.

People still make do, and you can see the vibrancy in Istanbul and such.

But no one should have to take bank credit to close another bank credit. I assume I don't have to tell you guys where that leads if you live your life on loans.

Anyway, EU isn't going to be impartial, and they'll use the issues in mediterranean sea to embargo Turkey. That's how they are.

So I expect things are going to be much worse in Turkey. All I can hope is that we are selfsufficient on food and the rest we can get from outside of EU.

My cousin is moving back to Istanbul, and it's a good choice, the city is vibrant and Istanbul can survive and continue growing regardless of embargos. But other parts or Turkey doesn't have the same vibrancy, so I hope proper budget discipline and efficiency can bring down our foreign debt.

@Kaptaan I agree that the PAF has a very important role in Pakistan, and imagine that unifying Pakistan is a steep uphill battle. But it can be done through education and investments.

I think it's important to focus on the patriotic values as well as Islam as that is the binding glue atm. School teachers are the most valuable soldiers you can have in national unity. Even in this accursed age of technology a teacher spends 6-8 hours with the kids daily.

Prior to the break between Fetullah Gülen and AKP/RTE, FG inspirit schools were a global influence. The idea behind is valid, Hizmet schools were, as I understood from a pakistani I spoke with, considered elite schools in Pakistan.

And they were doing really well, influencing and creating massive positive impression of Turkey and what not. Raising young minds who might become presidents in the future.

But all that is pretty much destroyed. I wish I could read ppls mind so that I could learn the truth of everything.

 

[Ryder]

The best that can be done is keep islam out of politics. Allow it to be what we're saying it is. a religion of peace.

But let's not forget that MAN isn't free of taint, or fallible, so we drag what we can through mud and dirt.

Turkey has had a much higher GDP and PPP, but it's been going down steadily the past 7 years.

People still make do, and you can see the vibrancy in Istanbul and such.

But no one should have to take bank credit to close another bank credit. I assume I don't have to tell you guys where that leads if you live your life on loans.

Anyway, EU isn't going to be impartial, and they'll use the issues in mediterranean sea to embargo Turkey. That's how they are.

So I expect things are going to be much worse in Turkey. All I can hope is that we are selfsufficient on food and the rest we can get from outside of EU.

My cousin is moving back to Istanbul, and it's a good choice, the city is vibrant and Istanbul can survive and continue growing regardless of embargos. But other parts or Turkey doesn't have the same vibrancy, so I hope proper budget discipline and efficiency can bring down our foreign debt.

@Kaptaan I agree that the PAF has a very important role in Pakistan, and imagine that unifying Pakistan is a steep uphill battle. But it can be done through education and investments.

I think it's important to focus on the patriotic values as well as Islam as that is the binding glue atm. School teachers are the most valuable soldiers you can have in national unity. Even in this accursed age of technology a teacher spends 6-8 hours with the kids daily.

Prior to the break between Fetullah Gülen and AKP/RTE, FG inspirit schools were a global influence. The idea behind is valid, Hizmet schools were, as I understood from a pakistani I spoke with, considered elite schools in Pakistan.

And they were doing really well, influencing and creating massive positive impression of Turkey and what not. Raising young minds who might become presidents in the future.

But all that is pretty much destroyed. I wish I could read ppls mind so that I could learn the truth of everything.

Istanbul is vibrant because it gets all the investments.

Which is retarded to be honest.

 

[Saithan]

Istanbul is vibrant because it gets all the investments.

Which is retarded to be honest.

Well if the money comes from Istanbul, why not ?

You think Istanbul wants the canal ? Or all the high riser that RTE had his friends build ? or all the arabs who buys property and get a pasport in the process.

Also seeing the infrastructure projects built and still being build in Turkey the question is did the government make proper financial evaluation before agreeing on these projects ?

I shouldn't have to remind anyone about the Kütahya airport construction and operation deal. If government had paid it from the treasury it would have cost Turkey 50 mio Euro, but they gave a guarenteed passenger deal and now we'll have to pay 200+ mio EURO in 30 years.

Let's assume the government made many deals like this. Who's going to pay for it ? Istanbul is the economic engine of Turkey, and as long as Istanbul is vibrant Turkey get's money in the coffers that RTE and AKP can waste away.

Smart investments are necessary, but you have to think of the people in the process. I would argue AKP and RTE was thinking, how much money can we get out of Istanbul. We will build high riser ruining the overall view of the city.

I shared an old video of Nihat Genc, and he is right. If everyone in Turkey had a degree AKP would never have existed.

 

[Ryder]

Well if the money comes from Istanbul, why not ?

You think Istanbul wants the canal ? Or all the high riser that RTE had his friends build ? or all the arabs who buys property and get a pasport in the process.

Also seeing the infrastructure projects built and still being build in Turkey the question is did the government make proper financial evaluation before agreeing on these projects ?

I shouldn't have to remind anyone about the Kütahya airport construction and operation deal. If government had paid it from the treasury it would have cost Turkey 50 mio Euro, but they gave a guarenteed passenger deal and now we'll have to pay 200+ mio EURO in 30 years.

Let's assume the government made many deals like this. Who's going to pay for it ? Istanbul is the economic engine of Turkey, and as long as Istanbul is vibrant Turkey get's money in the coffers that RTE and AKP can waste away.

Smart investments are necessary, but you have to think of the people in the process. I would argue AKP and RTE was thinking, how much money can we get out of Istanbul. We will build high riser ruining the overall view of the city.

I shared an old video of Nihat Genc, and he is right. If everyone in Turkey had a degree AKP would never have existed.

Even with degrees you will have people voting for Erdogan and his akp. Nihat genc statements stinks of elitism.

All akp voters are just illterates then cry when they lose the election. Many educated people who vote for Trump too.

When it comes to voting people will give their reasons for voting. Trump, Duterte, various other conservatives or strongman win because people are sick of liberals and their elitism. Boris johnson won due to this. A lot of corbyns supporters called boris johnsons supporters as losers from the rural country.

 

[bsruzm]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306627757913276416

"Is my name written there??? No."

@meteyarar

 

[VCheng]

Where are we heading as Muslims? I really wonder. From richest to poorest, everybody is kissing an a*s... Turkish developments related to defense industry is my only hope that they shouldn't fail lol

Let us worry about each Muslim country to develop as best as possible first, and only then will the direction of the followers of the religion take care of itself. Putting the proverbial cart before the horse doesn't work very well.

 

[bsruzm]

Let us worry about each Muslim country to develop as best as possible first

They are really far from that

 

[Kaptaan]

The best that can be done is keep islam out of politics. Allow it to be what we're saying it is. a religion of peace.

Absolutely. I accept that culture is informed by religion. And culture can impact politics. But the "hadith says so or so". Or "Mufti says so and so" Or "it is narrated that" has no place in politics or even rational discussion. The number of times I have to put up with type of discussion which effectively kills any open debate because your aware that whatever it says in some script is the final word.

But no one should have to take bank credit to close another bank credit. I assume I don't have to tell you guys where that leads if you live your life on loans.

I believe despite issues [tell me who does not other than oil exporters although even their days are numbered] Turkey sits on solid fundamentals. Literate population, open society, abreat the west and east including even the south. Istanbul is destined to be a world city [I am so convinced that I ever since I saw these investment hoardings at Istanbul Airport] I have been looking at buying a apartment in Istanbul as I am 100% sure over the long term it willturn to gold ~ providing it's in right location.

Boris johnson won due to this.

Boris won because Corbyn was hopeless. A crackpot leftie, nothing wrong with that but not fir to run a country. His views were way off to the left. And he annoyed the Jewish lobby which broughy accusations of 'anti-semite' which is political suicide in western countries, particularly Anglo-Saxons ones. Now with Keir Starmer heading Labour Party [which has been in disaray since Brown left] the party might get it's act together and pose a threat to the Tories in the next election.

patriotic values as well as Islam as that is the binding glue atm

That is the problem with Pakistan. For 70 years the state has invested in patriotism revolving arouind the banner of Islam. Ony problem is that banner flies in 50 other countries, 1.5 billion people, four continents and groups like Al Qaida, TTP, Taliban etc play that card better. Pakistan is not MUSLIMSTAN.

Constitutionally speaking it is federation of four [five] provinces whose geography is wrapped around the Indus region. It's that simple. A state does not need religion to hold it together. What the fcuk holds city states like Singapore [made of migrant ethnic groups from across Asia] together? Or what holds India together? Don't forget America was born because of tea. What was Canada born for? What was Australia born for ~ was it criminals?

Countries exist like people do. Like me, you and others exist. Mere existence is itself enough. Some of us were born out of love, others out of lust, others accidents, others rape but all exist and that itself then becomes the premise for our lifes. Where am I going with this? Yes in 1947 Islam might have been electioneering banner by Muslim league to win but once 1947 happened it does not need to be pressure pumped throw peoples noses.

I honestly sometimes, I emphasise sometimes think Pakistan would be better devolved to it's federating provinces. A ethnic based state is easier to develop.

 

[Ryder]

Absolutely. I accept that culture is informed by religion. And culture can impact politics. But the "hadith says so or so". Or "Mufti says so and so" Or "it is narrated that" has no place in politics or even rational discussion. The number of times I have to put up with type of discussion which effectively kills any open debate because your aware that whatever it says in some script is the final word.

I believe despite issues [tell me who does not other than oil exporters although even their days are numbered] Turkey sits on solid fundamentals. Literate population, open society, abreat the west and east including even the south. Istanbul is destined to be a world city [I am so convinced that I ever since I saw these investment hoardings at Istanbul Airport] I have been looking at buying a apartment in Istanbul as I am 100% sure over the long term it willturn to gold ~ providing it's in right location.

Boris won because Corbyn was hopeless. A crackpot leftie, nothing wrong with that but not fir to run a country. His views were way off to the left. And he annoyed the Jewish lobby which broughy accusations of 'anti-semite' which is political suicide in western countries, particularly Anglo-Saxons ones. Now with Keir Starmer heading Labour Party [which has been in disaray since Brown left] the party might get it's act together and pose a threat to the Tories in the next election.

That is the problem with Pakistan. For 70 years the state has invested in patriotism revolving arouind the banner of Islam. Ony problem is that banner flies in 50 other countries, 1.5 billion people, four continents and groups like Al Qaida, TTP, Taliban etc play that card better. Pakistan is not MUSLIMSTAN.

Constitutionally speaking it is federation of four [five] provinces whose geography is wrapped around the Indus region. It's that simple. A state does not need religion to hold it together. What the fcuk holds city states like Singapore [made of migrant ethnic groups from across Asia] together? Or what holds India together? Don't forget America was born because of tea. What was Canada born for? What was Australia born for ~ was it criminals?

Countries exist like people do. Like me, you and others exist. Mere existence is itself enough. Some of us were born out of love, others out of lust, others accidents, others rape but all exist and that itself then becomes the premise for our lifes. Where am I going with this? Yes in 1947 Islam might have been electioneering banner by Muslim league to win but once 1947 happened it does not need to be pressure pumped throw peoples noses.

I honestly sometimes, I emphasise sometimes think Pakistan would be better devolved to it's federating provinces. A ethnic based state is easier to develop.

The thing is Pakistans nationalism can be developed due to history, culture and religion.

Usa, canada, australia and new zealand have a hard even forming a identity due to lots of immigrants also how they are settler colonies. Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, UK, Turkey, Japan, South Korea and various other countries were able to form their identities due to a wide range of factors.

Nationialism just wont work on countries like Australia, USA and Canada due to their settler colony heritage. Tell many of them you are British in origin many would reject it the difference is Australia and Canada still see the UK as home but its not what it used to be.